Mark Martin still a champion

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Trophy or no trophy, Martin is a champion
By DAVID POOLE
The Charlotte Observer

HOMESTEAD, Fla. – Mark Martin didn't win the 2002 Winston Cup championship.
He didn't win it in 1990, or in 1994, or in 1998, either. Just like in each of those seasons, he fell short again on Sunday when Tony Stewart wrapped up this year's crown in the Ford 400 at Homestead-Miami Speedway.

The record books will note that Martin fell 38 points short of the 4,800 Stewart amassed in winning this year's title. Martin and his car owner Jack Roush feel strongly that the true final margin was 13 points, believing a 25-point penalty against Martin for a spring rule violation in Pop Secret 400 at Rockingham was unjust.

"I think that was important," Martin said Sunday when asked if it was better for all concerned that Stewart's final margin was greater than the 25 points he lost to that ruling. "I feel good about that. I feel like they beat us, they earned it and I congratulate them."

So be it. Stewart will go to New York the week after Thanksgiving as headliner at NASCAR's annual awards ceremony. Martin, once more, must settle for second banana.

"I never really looked at this thing this year and allowed myself to think I would win it," said Martin, who took the points lead after the Sept. 22 race a Dover but lost it, for good as it turned out, one week later at Kansas. "That's a good thing, because I feel no letdown now."

In some ways, of course, that's hard to believe. He's 43 years old and has 33 career Winston Cup victories, but every time he turns around somebody else is asking him about how tough it is to not have a Winston Cup title on his resume.

Martin has a fairly stock answer to the question, one he repeated on Sunday.

"You can beat on me all you want about running second and that's not good because I feel like that sometimes," he said. "But I've had a great career and I've done all I can do. Say what you want. I didn't score enough points this year. I never scored enough points."

"I don't think I'm the greatest race car driver in the world that ever lived and I don't want anybody to write that about me. I do what I do and I have been very fortunate. I have a lot of respect and a lot of trophies."

The trophies are nice, but you get the sense that Martin enjoys the respect more.

Stewart praised Martin repeatedly on the season's final weekend, recalling that back in 1996 when Stewart first came to NASCAR's Grand National series he often sought out Martin, who's the all-time race winner in that series, too, for advice.

"He always took time for me," Stewart recalled. "He gave me plenty of good tips and answered questions I had. And I had a lot of them.

"If we weren't fortunate enough to get it done, I was going to lose to someone that I really liked and someone that I have a lot of respect and admiration for. ...Some guys go their whole career without winning a championship. I hope that doesn't happen to Mark."

Martin said he heard a lot of that over the final days of the long season, and that the support humbled him. It also, he said, put a little more pressure on his shoulders.

"I had so many people who wanted me to win it so bad, I almost got afraid that they were going to be let down so bad, that I was going to let them down," he said. "What I'm trying to say is thank you, to the all the competitors and all the fans and all the people I know who felt that way."

Martin won one race this season, the Coca-Cola 600 at Lowe's Motor Speedway. He scored more points that everyone else but Stewart one year after going winless and finishing 12th in the standings, his first time out of the top 10 since 1988. Martin swapped teams with Kurt Busch, and credits new crew chief Ben Leslie and his group with reviving his career. Martin's former crew, led by crew chief Jimmy Fennig, helped Busch to four wins and a third-place points finish this year, so it was a win-win kind of deal.

Sure, Martin would love to be in Stewart's position in New York next month. Sure, he'd love to be able to win a championship and share that with his team. And just like he did this year, he'll try with every fiber of his being to do exactly that in 2003.

He's just not counting on it.

"I don't predict next year," he said Sunday. "But I know one thing – my guys are going to be there. I've got a great sponsor and great people on my team. I don't know if we can make the top 10 next year. I don't know how we did it this year. I just know that we did it. ...These guys gave me a shot right down to the very last lap and you'd better believe I'm grateful for that."

"I don't feel disappointed and I don't feel excited. I don't feel anything right now. I just raced my brains out ...and made it close. That's all I know."

That's all he had, which is exactly what Martin will give every time he gets in the car for as long as he chooses to do it. No matter how the points add up, that makes him a champion by any true definition of that word.


*end Poole article*


Nothing I can add to that. The man is class top to bottom.
 
Oh boy....who's a champ and who ain't eh?

By definition, there ain't too many folks in Winston Cup that ain't Champs of one kind or another. From Carl Long to Tony Stewart I'm almost certain a bit of research could uncover track/series championship of one kind or another.

So yes, Mark Martin is a Champion. And so is Back Row Joe.

The winningest driver in the history of the sport (over 1200) has never even won a Winston Cup race, although he did win The Winston Open once. His best Cup finish this year was 29th. He is by far the best short track driver the sport has ever seen with 2 ASA series trophies, and 9 ARTGO Mid-West series trophies.

Just because somebody never hoist the Cup.....or even wins a Cup race....doesn't mean they ain't Champs.
 
Originally posted by 71Fan

Just because somebody never hoist the Cup.....or even wins a Cup race....doesn't mean they ain't Champs.

Yes it does.

Why even have a points race...just call em all Champions.

Gimmie a break, Mark lost...he didn't win, he isn't a champ.
 
Mark is not the Winston Cup Champion, but in the eyes of many, he is a champion by virtue of his demeanor, driving style and consistency. Something he earned over time. Neither David Poole, TNWard Fan nor 71Fan offered anything to the contrary and neither do I.

Sometimes there is more to being a champion than garnering the most points. The final tally shows Tony Stewart did win the Winston Cup Championship and he did it fair and square.
Mark Martin gathered the second highest point count and is not the Winston Cup Champion, but in the eyes of many, is a champion in the overall scheme of things.

Never once did Mark personally complain or act disgusted, claim foul, or attempt to pull an on-track borderline move on any of the competition to gain points towward the championship.
When things went wrong, he assumed his responsibility and acted accordingly as a driver and as a man. He has taken his lumps, and paid dearly for them, all without a whimper or complaint. So when some of us pick Champions, we look beyond the score board. We look at the ones who don't cry and whine, to the ones who are the epitome of the adage "nice guys finish (last) second" and to the ones who suck it up and go on about thier every day lives without squirting on someone elses shoes.
Those who do not subscribe to Vince Lombardi's infamous quote "winning isn't everything, It's the only thing" find Mark Martin and others like him to be champions. And for now, they may not be the champions of Winston Cup but they are the champions IN Winston Cup.
 
2nd place is the first loser. Wasn't there a famous guy that said that?
 
"Gimme a break"?????

Why? Mark Martin IS a Champion. No doubt in my mind at all. And every time I see someone try to say different, I will say it again.....and again....and again.

If you want a break it's your responsibillity to take it, not mine to give it to you:D
 
How is he a champion if he has never won a championship?

I think you're confusing champion with good driver...two different things.

Think about a few times, it might come to you.
 
Mark Martin is a four-time ASA ACDelco Challenge Series champion.
 
How come David Poole didn't write an article about Dave Blaney being a champion?
 
I am getting tired of this too paul. I'm also getting tired of people saying he "deserves" a championship too. That has to be earned. Sure Martin is a very nice person but in order to be a champion, one has to get a championship. Thats how it has always worked, why should it change for him?
 
IF one choses to define "a champion" within the NASCAR ranks as solely the realm of those who have accumulated the most points in any given season, there is really no basis for a discussion. The facts would prevent any debate on the subject.

One could take that reasoning further I guess and declare that Mark, since he is the subject here, is indeed a champion by definition. In that he is the reigning champion of the World 600 race run on Memorial Day weekend. More accurately the "Coca Cola Racing Family 600" as I believe it is called now. Further being the champion of some 30 plus prior events in Winston Cup. That probably does not address the heart of the matter either, though it is factual.

If one allows the article first cited as pertaining to the spirit of a champion, the drive of a champion, even the skill of a champion, or any of the other intangibles which can many times only be measured in terms outside of statistics, then there is another realm of possibilities open.

Mark may very well never garner the crown of Winston Cup champion. A distinction shared at this time by roughly half of the 50 greatest drivers in NASCAR history no matter who they might be. He would join names such Fireball Roberts, Fred Lorenzen, Jim Paschal, Junior Johnson, Davey Allison among others I insult by not mentioning, my apologies.

So granting the expansion of the term "champion" I would be more than happy to welcome Mark to a seat among those I would rank as champions.
 
In the media's opinion it should be different because he doesn't snub them like Stewart does.
 
Mark Martin is the best driver in Winston Cup at this point in time. It's a shame how some people will say that he is not a winner but a loser when infact Mark is the biggest winner in Winston Cup. Can you tell me a driver right now on the series that has finished in the top 3 in points for 7 out of 15 years which is truely remarkable.

Tell me if I am wrong but didnt people say Dale Earnhardt deserved to be a Daytona 500 Champion?Did Dale himself even say it ?Yes.

Mark Martin does not say he deserves to be a champion....that makes him a champion. :rolleyes:
 
Oh and I forgot to tell you...

Mark MArtin accumulated the most points of any driver in the 90's so I guess you chould say he was the Champion of the 90's!!

Ohhh...I bet that hurt.
 
Originally posted by paul
Coke 600...is that the race where he got away with being 1/8 too low?

Don't think so , no.

Seems the team failed post race inspection and was fined in accordance with NASCAR policy at the time.

Went and checked the record book and Mark Martin was and is the winner of that race.
 
I love the way people can quote statistics to bolster their point on this subject. In the broadest sense of the word, Mark Martin is a Champion........but he ain't a Champion of the Winston Cup Series. I read that article by David Poole the other day (or maybe it was yesterday...whatever) and Mr Poole was trying to offer the opinion that Mark was the true Champion of the NASCAR Winston Cup......that is not true. I like the guy, I watch for his finishes in all races, I even root for him when my guy falls out occassionally.......but until, at the end of a season, he comes up with the most points accumulated during that season he is not a Winston Cup Champion. I don't care how many points he earned as a total in however many years......that doesn't count. It's a pure and simple fact: Mark Martin is NOT a Cup Champion. Anyone, encluding David Poole, who declares him one like he did in that article is just insulting Mark Martin......let alone all the past Champions of the series.

BTW for all the Mark Martin fans........should Mark finally win a Winston Cup Championship, I will be there cheering for him every bit as much as I did for Tony (and even as much as I would cheer should Jr win one).
 
prevarication......what a neat word.....

What I'm wondering is where in this thread has anybody said Mark Martin deserves to be Winston Cup Champion?

And how did you (Paul) get out of David Poole's article that....."and Mr Poole was trying to offer the opinion that Mark was the true Champion of the NASCAR Winston Cup."

What I saw was a well written piece on the insights of a man who continues to come up short. I saw no postering that Mark was the true Winston Cup Champ.
 
Mark is not a Winston Cup champion. It's as straight as that, there is no arguing.
 
I'm still waiting to find out who it is that is saying he is.

Ya'll will let me know ok?
 
Okay 71fan.......NO ONE!:) But people are using all kinds of irrelavant stats to "prove" he's a Champion.....and since it's less than a week from the the deciding race, everyone knows what those people are saying. And that being (this is just paraphrasing, now.....no quotes!!): "I don't care who got the most points in the series this year, my Mark is the the true Champion".

That's what I'm hearing........that's what I read in David Poole's article.:) And I think it's insulting to all winners of the Cup AND to Mark Martin.
 
Originally posted by DE Wrangler 2
and since it's less than a week from the the deciding race, everyone knows what those people are saying.  And that being (this is just paraphrasing, now.....no quotes!!):  "I don't care who got the most points in the series this year, my Mark is the the true Champion".

That's what I'm hearing........that's what I  read in David Poole's article.:)  And I think it's insulting to all winners of the Cup AND to Mark Martin.

Actually that is not what I am saying at all. My opinion on this topic is that Mark Martin defines the word champion in another sense. I take nothing away from what Tony Stewart accomplished. He won it fair and square. But it takes more in my eyes than a tally of points to become a true champion.

Tony Stewart has the trophy he won. He has the title.

Mark Martin has the admiration of thousands of fans, including Tony himself. Write your own definitions.
 
TONY STEWART WON...MARK MARTIN DIDN'T WIN......

NOW DROP IT.............:rolleyes:
 
Me too pbunch......:D

Anyone pick up Jimmy Spencer yet? We need a good subject now the season is over.:)
 
I miss racing and it hasn't even been a week yet...........:(
 
Originally posted by Whizzer
Mark is not the Winston Cup Champion, but in the eyes of many, he is a champion by virtue of his demeanor, driving style and consistency. Something he earned over time. Neither David Poole, TNWard Fan nor 71Fan offered anything to the contrary and neither do I.  

Sometimes there is more to being a champion than garnering the most points. The final tally shows Tony Stewart did win the Winston Cup Championship and he did it fair and square.  
Mark Martin gathered the second highest point count and is not the Winston Cup Champion, but in the eyes of many, is a champion in the overall scheme of things.  

Never once did Mark personally complain or act disgusted, claim foul, or attempt to pull an on-track borderline move on any of the competition to gain points towward the championship.  
When things went wrong, he assumed his responsibility and acted accordingly as a driver and as a man. He has taken his lumps, and paid dearly for them, all without a whimper or complaint. So when some of us pick Champions, we look beyond the score board. We look at the ones who don't cry and whine, to the ones who are the epitome of the  adage "nice guys finish (last) second" and to the ones who suck it up and go on about thier every day lives without squirting on someone elses shoes.  
Those who do not subscribe to Vince Lombardi's infamous quote "winning isn't everything, It's the only thing" find Mark Martin and others like him to be champions. And for now, they may not be the champions of Winston Cup but they are the champions IN Winston Cup.

That would be called a class act, not a champion.
 
if stats mean more then anything else I guess richard petty is the best driver in nascar ever, no matter whats said.:rolleyes:
 
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