Media, KB fans blow 100 wins out of proportion

MRM

MRM

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I am not a Kyle Busch hater or fan. Winning 100 NASCAR races is a good accomplishment. But Kyle Petty and others are right. Comparing Busch winning 100 NASCAR races, half of which are in the Nationwide series, to Richard Petty's 200 Cup wins is not a good comparison.

Kyle Petty has been blasted for saying the same thing. People on Twitter last night were ragging on KP. Some were being down right nasty about it. KP just laughed it off. The media is the one that's made this into a story. They have nothing else to talk about and they are misinformed. Many of these have only covered the sport the last 10-12 years.

The KB fans are just as bad because they feel "offended" that someone dare say his 100 wins are not that big of a deal. It is a big deal. But not as big as they and the media make it. I saw a headline on nascar.com that said 'halfway to Petty.' That is no way accurate. If we are going to start talking about NASCAR wins and not just Cup wins, then let's add to the totals of DW, Earnhardt, Pearson, and others.
 
MRM said:
I am not a Kyle Busch hater or fan. Winning 100 NASCAR races is a good accomplishment. But Kyle Petty and others are right. Comparing Busch winning 100 NASCAR races, half of which are in the Nationwide series, to Richard Petty's 200 Cup wins is not a good comparison.

Kyle Petty has been blasted for saying the same thing. People on Twitter last night were ragging on KP. Some were being down right nasty about it. KP just laughed it off. The media is the one that's made this into a story. They have nothing else to talk about and they are misinformed. Many of these have only covered the sport the last 10-12 years.

The KB fans are just as bad because they feel "offended" that someone dare say his 100 wins are not that big of a deal. It is a big deal. But not as big as they and the media make it. I saw a headline on nascar.com that said 'halfway to Petty.' That is no way accurate. If we are going to start talking about NASCAR wins and not just Cup wins, then let's add to the totals of DW, Earnhardt, Pearson, and others.
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It's a great accomplishment for sure.

But FOX/SPEED and ESPN saying it's a greater accomplishment than Pearson, Waltrip or Petty is asinine.
 
Comparing any driver today to a driver from the fifties or sixties is like comparing apples to oranges. In the fifties they ran more than fifty races a year and sometimes in excess of sixty races. Back then there was really only a few people that had enough money to truly compete every week and those teams won most of the races.
 
Smoke14 said:
Comparing any driver today to a driver from the fifties or sixties is like comparing apples to oranges. In the fifties they ran more than fifty races a year and sometimes in excess of sixty races. Back then there was really only a few people that had enough money to truly compete every week and those teams won most of the races.
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The cars were very different as well. Let's be honest, half these guys wouldn't be able to turn those cars.
 
Smoke14 said:
Comparing any driver today to a driver from the fifties or sixties is like comparing apples to oranges. In the fifties they ran more than fifty races a year and sometimes in excess of sixty races. Back then there was really only a few people that had enough money to truly compete every week and those teams won most of the races.
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That's plain wrong. First off, Kyle Busch runs far more races each year than Petty ever did. Petty ran more than 60 races just once, and spent a few years running just 28. Todays drivers don't have many mechanical breakdowns, while Pettys top organization averaged almost 8 per year. Axels, radiators, transmissions, stearing links, drive shafts, wheel bearings, etc are all built much better today.

When you look at Pettys wins, most came while competing against the likes of Pearson, Yarborough, junior and the rest of the best. Kyle has avoided competing against the best of the day in over 80% of his wins. THAT'S how you compare wins between eras. DID YOU BEAT THE BEST? Sadly, Kyle has to answer 'NO' way too often to be compared to many of the best in cup history. How anyone can seriously make that comparison is beyond me. :confused:

When Kyle starts beating JJ, Tony and Jeff regularly in cup races, i'll consider him a great CUP driver. Until then, he's the best NW driver ever.
 
MRM said:
The KB fans are just as bad because they feel "offended" that someone dare say his 100 wins are not that big of a deal. It is a big deal. But not as big as they and the media make it. I saw a headline on nascar.com that said 'halfway to Petty.' That is no way accurate. If we are going to start talking about NASCAR wins and not just Cup wins, then let's add to the totals of DW, Earnhardt, Pearson, and others.
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Another way for Nascar to want to generate more interest by generating controversy.

They still haven't learned their lesson.

All of this BS just drives away more of the long time fans which is one of the reasons Nascar and the tracks are in the financial shape they are in today.

They are desperate to generate interest through hype and make issues out of statistics. It is failing miserably and Nascar continues the downhill slide in ratings and attendance.

Quite a shame as I have been a fan for years and have worked in the sport the last 12 years. My working years ahead may not be many but it still saddens me to see how far this sport has been allowed to degrade under the present leadership.
 
Guido said:
Another way for Nascar to want to generate more interest by generating controversy.

They still haven't learned their lesson.

All of this BS just drives away more of the long time fans which is one of the reasons Nascar and the tracks are in the financial shape they are in today.

They are desperate to generate interest through hype and make issues out of statistics. It is failing miserably and Nascar continues the downhill slide in ratings and attendance.

Quite a shame as I have been a fan for years and have worked in the sport the last 12 years. My working years ahead may not be many but it still saddens me to see how far this sport has been allowed to degrade under the present leadership.
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Gimmicks. Just like putting Ritchie Evans in the HOF, they did that because they thought the yankee open wheel fans would come down.
 
First off:
Congrats to Kyle Busch a hundred Wins in racing is an accomplishment.

Second:
The media has No Idea how or what to compare KB's 100 Wins to and are making it sound like more than it really is. You just can't compare a combination of Truck series/Nationwide and Cup Wins to Straight Cup Wins.

Third:
Dick Trickle has Over 500 Wins........and has never really received much credit for it.
 
FenderBumper said:
That's plain wrong. First off, Kyle Busch runs far more races each year than Petty ever did. Petty ran more than 60 races just once, and spent a few years running just 28.
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From the early 60's to the late 60's, Petty ran around 50 races a year. The smaller schedule didn't come into play until Winston came on board in 1972.
 
MRM said:
From the early 60's to the late 60's, Petty ran around 50 races a year. The smaller schedule didn't come into play until Winston came on board in 1972.
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Yep, exactly what I'm saying. From '58 to '71, there were between 44 and 61 races per year. In those 14 years, Petty ran an average of 40 races per year.

From '72 until '92, the schedule was down to 28 to 32 races per year. Petty ran an average of 29 races per year in that period.

That puts his career average of races per year at just under 34.

So much for the argument people make that Petty ran more races per year than todays drivers. :rolleyes:
 
Guido said:
Another way for Nascar to want to generate more interest by generating controversy.

They still haven't learned their lesson.

All of this BS just drives away more of the long time fans which is one of the reasons Nascar and the tracks are in the financial shape they are in today.

They are desperate to generate interest through hype and make issues out of statistics. It is failing miserably and Nascar continues the downhill slide in ratings and attendance.

Quite a shame as I have been a fan for years and have worked in the sport the last 12 years. My working years ahead may not be many but it still saddens me to see how far this sport has been allowed to degrade under the present leadership.
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Totally agree. I don't see how they can get new fans with the same garbage that is driving away the old time fans. People are not stupid.
 
FenderBumper said:
Yep, exactly what I'm saying. From '58 to '71, there were between 44 and 61 races per year. In those 14 years, Petty ran an average of 40 races per year.

From '72 until '92, the schedule was down to 28 to 32 races per year. Petty ran an average of 29 races per year in that period.

That puts his career average of races per year at just under 34.

So much for the argument people make that Petty ran more races per year than todays drivers. :rolleyes:
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The "King" ran in 1184 NASCAR races during his lifetime. Who else has accomplished that?

Do your homework.
 
Back in Petty's earlier years, you raced more than once in the cup series during any one particular week. And the tracks were all over requiring travel over highways that were far from being anything like our present interstate system.

You towed your own car to the track. No fancy jets, helicopters and motor homes to sleep in. Racing life was a whole lot tougher and more dangerous than it is today for the lack of safer cars, tracks and regulations.

Hard to compare the two eras on an equal basis but I believe racing back then was a lot tougher and more taxing on man and equipment.
 
This whole thread just kills me. I mean, some of you act as though sleep is lost over this. Seriously, is it that big a deal? If it it, how 'bou writing an open letter to all the big media players? Nope, to wimpy for that I suppose. Just gotta gripe whine and moan on a racing forum:rolleyes:

What's funny though, is Kyle Busch gets more pages on this forum that any other driver, past or presence. Even for stuff he has nothing to do with.
 
As somebody without any personal interest in this debate, I only want to make a couple points.

Look at the leaders in total NASCAR wins. Kyle is third, with 100 wins in significantly fewer total starts than anyone else, with the exception of David Pearson. However, 78 of them came in the minor leagues, where kyle has raced more than than the other four of the top five all time winners combined. That point has been beaten to death, but you cannot over state it.

With that said, I haven't seen anybody try to say 100 wins at age 25 (?) is not a tremendous accomplishment. I'll even say he's the best pure racer going right now. All anyone is saying is that it isn't at all surprising that a driver with the talent to win Cup championships can beat up the minor leagues every week. That's all it is, and I think it's a pretty fair point to make.
 
Smoke14 said:
The "King" ran in 1184 NASCAR races during his lifetime. Who else has accomplished that?

Do your homework.
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Err, what does that have to do with average races run per year? Nothing.

Someone needs a little extra study time. :D
 
Guido said:
Back in Petty's earlier years, you raced more than once in the cup series during any one particular week. And the tracks were all over requiring travel over highways that were far from being anything like our present interstate system.

You towed your own car to the track. No fancy jets, helicopters and motor homes to sleep in. Racing life was a whole lot tougher and more dangerous than it is today for the lack of safer cars, tracks and regulations.

Hard to compare the two eras on an equal basis but I believe racing back then was a lot tougher and more taxing on man and equipment.
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Exactly. Petty worked on his own cars, raced against as many as 70 cars, raced on dirt and poorely maintained pavement, and many of the other drivers back then were home town boys who just didn't know what they were doing out there. Just surviving to the finish took real skill.

Todays drivers get safer barriers, standards for drivers, new pavement, full crews with 20 million dollar budgets, helicopters, jets, limos, TajMahal campers, air conditioning, etc. Yet, somehow, people say it was EASIER back then. lol

What Kyle is doing in the minors is amazing, but lets not get carried away and compare his wins to Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, etc. Why isn't it enough to say that all those wins are amazing, without trying to equate them with Cup wins? Why not compare him to Dick Trickle, who won over 1,000 features?
 
VaDirt said:
This whole thread just kills me. I mean, some of you act as though sleep is lost over this. Seriously, is it that big a deal? If it it, how 'bou writing an open letter to all the big media players? Nope, to wimpy for that I suppose. Just gotta gripe whine and moan on a racing forum:rolleyes:

What's funny though, is Kyle Busch gets more pages on this forum that any other driver, past or presence. Even for stuff he has nothing to do with.
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What's really funny is the ones that don't like him are the ones that are making him rich and more popular. :D
 
FenderBumper said:
Err, what does that have to do with average races run per year? Nothing.

Someone needs a little extra study time. :D
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Well... For the record, KB has ran less than 600 races. I guess that means that the King and KB would win about every sixth race they had entered.

Pretty dang impressive from where I see it.

OBTW. Someone needs to take a chill pill.
 
Smoke14 said:
Well... For the record, KB has ran less than 600 races. I guess that means that the King and KB would win about every sixth race they had entered.

Pretty dang impressive from where I see it.

OBTW. Someone needs to take a chill pill.
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Ahhh, I see that you are almost all caught up. :beerbang:

Next lesson. Kyles Cup winning percentage is 1/3 of what Pettys is. What does that mean?
 
FenderBumper said:
I just told him the answer. Study time....
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Lets see dumb ass....1184 divided by what 34 years correct? 34.8 races entered on average per year. 1958-1992 So that is the same as a Cup schedule now, I think that number is significant, it shows that Busch has got to 100 wins way quicker than Petty ever thought of doing it.
 
FenderBumper said:
Ahhh, I see that you are almost all caught up. :beerbang:

Next lesson. Kyles Cup winning percentage is 1/3 of what Pettys is. What does that mean?
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Richard raced for 36 seasons. Kyle is on his 8th season.

Now I understand where you are going with this.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Lets see dumb ass....1184 divided by what 34 years correct? 34.8 races entered on average per year. 1958-1992 So that is the same as a Cup schedule now, I think that number is significant, it shows that Busch has got to 100 wins way quicker than Petty ever thought of doing it.
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Chill kid, you really don't want to mess with me. Since we're on the subject of dumbasses, it's 35 years. I'll let you redo the math. If you need MORE help, just bang your milk glass on the table and I'll come running. :D

Kyle has only 22 Cup wins in over 240 races. Petty had more than that in one year. Did you even know that?
 
Smoke14 said:
Richard raced for 36 seasons. Kyle is on his 8th season.

Now I understand where you are going with this.
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What? Where do you get 36 from? His career spanned 35 years, but 3 of those were part time. 9, 14 and 21 races. Kyle had a part time year too, so make it 7 1/2.

I'm not "going" anywhere with this. I simply stated a fact that clearly shows that Petty was a far better cup driver than Kyle. Kyle is also averaging 80 races a year, 2.5 times what Petty averaged.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what does that tell you?
 
This whole thing comparing Kyle to R Petty is moot. The rules and conditions have changed so much since Petty drove that it's almost two different sports.
 
QUOTE=BobbyFord;443228]This whole thing comparing Kyle to R Petty is moot. The rules and conditions have changed so much since Petty drove that it's almost two different sports.[/QUOTE]

IMO, the rules don't matter. The real test is if you beat the very best stock car racers of the day to get your win. Kyle fails to do that in 80% of his wins. That's why Kyle can't win the spring NW race at Daytona. Tony and Bowyer show up and ruin his day. Imagine if JJ or Jeff ran the NW series full time. Kyle wouldn't be close to MM's win total for another 10 years.
 
FenderBumper said:
IMO, the rules don't matter. The real test is if you beat the very best stock car racers of the day to get your win. Kyle fails to do that in 80% of his wins. That's why Kyle can't win the spring NW race at Daytona. Tony and Bowyer show up and ruin his day. Imagine if JJ or Jeff ran the NW series full time. Kyle wouldn't be close to MM's win total for another 10 years.
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Competition is not the same as it was in the Petty days.
If you want to talk winning percentage, there are 3 other drivers ahead of Petty in the win percentage category.

Overall all-time winning percentage: [drivers with over 100 starts]:
1. Herb Thomas -- 21.053% (48 wins, 228 starts)
2. Tim Flock -- 20.856% (39/187)
3. David Pearson -- 18.293% (105/574)
4. Richard Petty -- 16.892% (200/1184)
5. Fred Lorenzen -- 16.456% (26/158)
6. Fireball Roberts -- 16.019% (33/206)
7. Junior Johnson -- 15.974% (50/313)
8. Jimmie Johnson -- 15.652% (54/345)
9. Cale Yarborough -- 14.821% (83/560)
10. Jeff Gordon -- 13.228% (84/635)
 
FenderBumper said:
...Imagine if JJ or Jeff ran the NW series full time. Kyle wouldn't be close to MM's win total for another 10 years.
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Jimmie Johnson has raced in over 90 Nationwide/Busch races and has only 1 victory, so it must be somewhat difficult to win in the Nationwide series if the 5-time Cup Champion is 1 for 90....
 
BobbyFord said:
Jimmie Johnson has raced in over 90 Nationwide/Busch races and has only 1 victory, so it must be somewhat difficult to win in the Nationwide series if the 5-time Cup Champion is 1 for 90....
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Then why hasn't Kyle won a Championship yet?
 
I'm repeating myself here, but it's really funny that Kyle Busch has taken up more pages on this forum than any other driver:D
 
fergy1370 said:
Then why hasn't Kyle won a Championship yet?
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I don't have an answer to that. Why can Jimmie Johnson not drive a Nationwide car? The driving characteristics are very different between the two cars. Some guys drive better in different cars. This debate is far from over (especially on this forum :D ) and it will continue to go on and on...
 
fergy1370 said:
Then why hasn't Kyle won a Championship yet?
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Cup competition is so tight.....plus Kyle isnt a big picture racer thus far.....he always races for the win,...to his detriment. If he just cruised around to a top 5 like many others he prolly would have a championship already
 
FenderBumper said:
Yep, exactly what I'm saying. From '58 to '71, there were between 44 and 61 races per year. In those 14 years, Petty ran an average of 40 races per year.

From '72 until '92, the schedule was down to 28 to 32 races per year. Petty ran an average of 29 races per year in that period.

That puts his career average of races per year at just under 34.

So much for the argument people make that Petty ran more races per year than todays drivers. :rolleyes:
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What does number of races run have to do with anything? I am not the one that brought it up. It has nothing to do with my arguement. My point is comparing 100 wins, most of which were in inferior series, as being halfway to Petty's 200 Cup wins is apples and oranges.
 
VaDirt said:
What's funny though, is Kyle Busch gets more pages on this forum that any other driver, past or presence. Even for stuff he has nothing to do with.
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It was Kyle that paraded around after the NNS race with that "100" flag and on TV this morning going on about his 100 NASCAR wins. He has a lot to do with it.

If we're going to count NASCAR wins, then let's start counting the wins of the guys that have run the modifieds and other series that are NASCAR sanctioned.
 
Clutch said:
That is the fact everyone seems to be missing.
Competition is WAY closer now....than back in the olden days :D
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There wasn't a NW series or a truck series back then either.

Thanks for the stats Ford. It shows the awesome drivers Petty was beating back during his career.
 
BobbyFord said:
Jimmie Johnson has raced in over 90 Nationwide/Busch races and has only 1 victory, so it must be somewhat difficult to win in the Nationwide series if the 5-time Cup Champion is 1 for 90....
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You do realize that JJ first raced stock cars in NW? He hadn't raced a single stock car before 1998. I'm talking about JJ AFTER catching up to all the guys who grew up SC racing. JJ today is a far better driver than Kyle.
 
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