More bad Rockingham news

KevinWI said:
Wow, totally uncertified statements for the win?

Prey tell, when I see the mountains of tents and RVs at Bristol, Road America and Watkins Glen, all literally in the middle of nowhere, what hot tourists attractions are they going to?

Hey, @dpkimmel2001 do you leave the track during a race weekend to go check out the local tourist traps?
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The only time we leave the track during race week is during dire emergencies such as low beer supply or other alcohol related reasons. ;)

Seriously though, the answer is, it all depends. When the kids were younger we used to leave the track for all kinds of local tourist type places. If it's just my wife and I we mainly only leave the track to go out for a good dinner some place or maybe some other relaxing place for a while.

I don't know about Road America. Never been there. The two other places you mentioned, Bristol & Watkins Glen..... There are plenty of places to go to. The Bristol area has some really interesting caverns to explore. There are two within 5 miles or so from the track. We've taken the kids there a few times. Also not far from there are a couple different state parks with some good places to go hiking. They've also got some good restaurants there. Watkins Glen..... Can't go there without going on a wine tour and hitting some of their great restaurants. Corning's not all that far from there. Lots there as well.

There's always something to do or see around these places, you only have to look.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I think that is bound to happen any time something experiences significant growth in a short period of time. Everyone here actively sought out this forum so it doesn't apply to most of us, but go to a race and you'll notice most fans are casual followers of NASCAR (at least, I do) and to a greater extent auto racing as a whole. The same goes for other leagues and organizations that dominate their respective sport - I think you'll find most NFL fans aren't necessarily football fans; they'll attend games for the experience or to say they went there and whatnot but they probably don't follow the league as a whole and football as a whole too strongly (ex: couldn't name the majority of the schools making up the Mountain West or what two high schools are playing in the national game of the week next Friday).

The smaller and more intimate a fan base is the more likely you are to have a knowledgeable and passionate fan base - ex: American soccer fans don't limit themselves to MLS but also watch the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, UEFA Champions League, etc.
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Tell that to the fans on the waiting list for PACKER season tickets...Estimated to be 15+ year wait...Same faces in the same seats year after year..............
 
KevinWI said:
Eh, define "city". There are only a few tracks that are really in cities or towns. Most are in the middle of nowhere.

Looking at the schedule, I'd say Fontana, Richmond, Dover and Indianapolis are the only ones who are really "in" a city. Places like Daytona, Texas, Kansas and Charlotte are kind of on the skirts but close I guess.

Road America, Pocono and Bristol are in the middle of nowhere and do fine. Most race tracks were in the middle of nowhere before ISC and SMI decided that race tracks were like NFL teams and every major city needed one. Before Fontana and Chicagoland they raced at places like North Wilkesboro and Rockingham.
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Charlotte Motor Speedway is actually well within Concord, NC city limits and it's bordered by Harrisburg, NC. A small town that's populated by rich people who don't want to live in Charlotte.
 
KevinWI said:
Wow, totally uncertified statements for the win?

Prey tell, when I see the mountains of tents and RVs at Bristol, Road America and Watkins Glen, all literally in the middle of nowhere, what hot tourists attractions are they going to?

Hey, @dpkimmel2001 do you leave the track during a race weekend to go check out the local tourist traps?
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I think you're missing the fact that the butts in the grandstands are what tracks need to survive, the tents and RVs are still a minority of race goers. Joe Blow buying a ticket for his wife and 2 kids in the grandstands is likely only going to the track for the race and will spend the other day or two that he's there with the family doing whatever the local area has to offer. FYI, the Watkins Glen area is a pretty well known vacation destination, at least in the Northeast. The Finger Lakes region is probably one of the most scenic in the country. Road America is at least close to Lake Michigan and Bristol is in the Southern Appalachians. What in the hell do you do in Rockingham with the family?

And yeah, tracks in the middle of nowhere used to survive and thrive back when the ticket prices were lower and locals could actually afford to support it. The economic dynamic of NASCAR race going has changed as the sport has grown.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Have you actually been to Rockingham, NC? It's a small town with a population less than 10,000 people. I used to date a girl from there and I'm honestly not surprised at why Rokingham has no support. The track is out in the middle of nowhere, a town that small cannot logistically support a NASCAR weekend, and it doesn't exactly have the highway infrastructure for it either.

In contrast, Concord NC, home of CMS has 82,000 population, has I-85, I-485 and I-77 and it has the infrastructure like hotels, malls, movie cinemas, etc.

The only other track comparable to Rockingham in this regard is Martinsville, and I'm guessing the reason Martinsville is still in business is because the track consistently puts on a good show, sells more tickets and the town of Ridgeway and Martinsville can support the NASCAR weekend.
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Yep. No racing, but I've been there. It's about an hour from Charlotte and Fayetteville, 2 hours from Raleigh and Greensboro. That isn't too long a ride from your hotel to the track on race day, and many FB and BB fans spend several hours getting to and from the game.

Your point about roads is very true, with 2 lane I74 being the main way in and out. IMO, M'ville and Bristol are more isolated, especially Bristol. With the mountains in the way, you spend a lot of time on traffic light overrun 321, then more time one 1 lane, 45 mph back roads.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I'm still waiting to hear about how where I live is some big great tourism hotbed.
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It isn't, but if I'm trying to convince my wife to use our limited vacation money to go to a NASCAR race, I'd probably be better off with "IT'S IN THE MOUNTAINS" than offering up whatever Rockingham has to offer.

It's all about what the area has to offer to the fan who is making the trip for the race. For some reason, people seem reluctant to admit that some places have more to offer than others and said areas are better at attracting people to their events.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I'm still waiting to hear about how where I live is some big great tourism hotbed.
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Economics dictate that most tracks need to be in the middle of nowhere, but close to a main artery. G'ovt doesn't cater to racing the way they do FB, BB and hoops with public financing. There's also the noise to think of, and the fact that each venue gets just 2 big events each year to support costs for maintenance, taxes, etc.
 
The Nature Boy said:
It isn't, but if I'm trying to convince my wife to use our limited vacation money to go to a NASCAR race, I'd probably be better off with "IT'S IN THE MOUNTAINS" than offering up whatever Rockingham has to offer.

It's all about what the area has to offer to the fan who is making the trip for the race. For some reason, people seem reluctant to admit that some places have more to offer than others and said areas are better at attracting people to their events.
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I guess that's the great part about being single then. Heh.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Because Abingdon, Virginia is some tourism hotspot :sarcasm:
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IMO, with a little road work, Rockingham is in a near perfect location. Close to 3 or 4 hotel markets will keep costs down for fans, and there are indeed 'things' to do within an hour or 2 ride.
 
I think some people just don't want to admit that Rockingham was doomed and was running on borrowed time. That time has obviously ran out.
 
The Nature Boy said:
It isn't, but if I'm trying to convince my wife to use our limited vacation money to go to a NASCAR race, I'd probably be better off with "IT'S IN THE MOUNTAINS" than offering up whatever Rockingham has to offer.

It's all about what the area has to offer to the fan who is making the trip for the race. For some reason, people seem reluctant to admit that some places have more to offer than others and said areas are better at attracting people to their events.
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Some places are better than others. Now that we got that out of the way, lets get back to the silly 'Rockingham is in the middle of nowhere' comments. :cool:
 
SpeedPagan said:
I think some people just don't want to admit that Rockingham was doomed and was running on borrowed time. That time has obviously ran out.
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I figured the fans wouldn't support that place if it reopened. As this thread has exhibited, a bunch of excuses.

For what it's worth, they didn't support North Wilkesboro when it reopened either. And I wanted to scream over that.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I guess that's the great part about being single then. Heh.
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That's the thing, a lot of people aren't so they're forced to budget and find things to do that the whole family can enjoy. Most of Rockingham's things to do are shared with the Charlotte area, which already has Charlotte Motor Speedway. The hypothetical family would probably choose Charlotte over Rockingham because it's logistically easier to spend time in Charlotte, hit I-85 and go to Concord than it is to drive 74 out of Charlotte. What in the world is there to do in the Rockingham area that would make one choose Rockingham over Charlotte?

I'll admit my personal bias too, I'd prefer mountainous areas and would rather not deal with a flat landed place unless it's on the coast.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I think you're missing the fact that the butts in the grandstands are what tracks need to survive, the tents and RVs are still a minority of race goers.
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Just curious what that statement is based on. Are there stats published on this? I'd like to see them. I've always been interested to see what the numbers are.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Just curious what that statement is based on. Are there stats published on this? I'd like to see them. I've always been interested to see what the numbers are.
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Logistically speaking, if there are 75,000-100,000 people in the grandstands, it's doubtful that you could have that many people in RVs at the track. I don't know if hard data is available but I doubt the majority of people at the track camped out.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I think you're missing the fact that the butts in the grandstands are what tracks need to survive, the tents and RVs are still a minority of race goers. .
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Not true at all. TV money is BY FAR the largest source of revenue for Sprint Cup tracks. I have a feeling the Rock and Wilkes missed out on the big money days.
 
FenderBumper said:
Not true at all. TV money is BY FAR the largest source of revenue for Sprint Cup tracks. I have a feeling the Rock and Wilkes missed out on the big money days.
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Post-2001, don't the tracks all get an equal split in TV revenue? Rockingham would've gotten the same amount as the other tracks.
 
The Nature Boy said:
That my friends is what we call a raw deal.
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Today, race dates are more about ISC / SMC making and KEEPING as much money as possible. Sadly, this leaves little room for adding or keeping more tracks on the schedule. Why maintain 2 tracks to get TV money for 2 race dates when they can have 1 track and 2 race dates?
 
FLRacingFan said:
Rockingham was a third-tier track, meaning it got the lowest cut of TV money. The three tiers are based on market size, historical importance, past ratings, etc. Texas still gets third-tier money for the race it took from Rockingham.

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2013/01/28/Media/NASCAR-media.aspx
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That right there is one of the many ways the Frances tilt the table in their favor. You can bet your ass this little money maker would disappear if the France's were forced to add a bunch of new tracks.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I figured the fans wouldn't support that place if it reopened. As this thread has exhibited, a bunch of excuses.

For what it's worth, they didn't support North Wilkesboro when it reopened either. And I wanted to scream over that.
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There's nobody here to support Wilkesboro. No hotels either. Or good roads. I'll pull a you and say I know this because I live there. </expert>.
 
blanston said:
There's nobody here to support Wilkesboro. No hotels either. Or good roads. I'll pull a you and say I know this because I live there. </expert>.
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But, it's in the Southern Appalachians, therefore it's supposed to be a tourism hotspot everyone wants to visit.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
But, it's in the Southern Appalachians, therefore it's supposed to be a tourism hotspot everyone wants to visit.
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You seem unable to grasp that Rockingham failed partly because it's in a bad location with nothing to do. Of course, no one goes to Martinsville as a tourist destination alone but the fact that it's in a good location for outdoor activities and scenery does help to tip the scales.
 
Also, I'm pretty sure the only reason N. Wilkesboro failed is because SMI wanted it to fail.
 
The Nature Boy said:
You seem unable to grasp that Rockingham failed because it's in a bad location with nothing to do. Of course, no one goes to Martinsville as a tourist destination alone but the fact that it's in a good location for outdoor activities and scenery does help to tip the scales.
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And the fact there just happens to also be infrastructure to support the track. The local economy around wilkes has been TERRIBLE and remains not good. Plus- there's no infrastructure.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Also, I'm pretty sure the only reason N. Wilkesboro failed is because SMI wanted it to fail.
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I'd like to think that's somewhat true and local economy, infrastructure or not, because it's so awesome fans from all over would've continued to support it.
 
blanston said:
I'd like to think that's somewhat true and local economy, infrastructure or not, because it's so awesome fans from all over would've continued to support it.
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I dunno, I mean yea N. Wilkesboro suffered from the same condition that Rockingham suffered from. However, with SMI as the owner, you'd think the track would be in better hands, owned by a corporation that knows how to promote a track and the racing and knows how to work with local government to increase revenue so that a support system could be built around the track.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I dunno, I mean yea N. Wilkesboro suffered from the same condition that Rockingham suffered from. However, with SMI as the owner, you'd think the track would be in better hands, owned by a corporation that knows how to promote a track and the racing and knows how to work with local government to increase revenue so that a support system could be built around the track.
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Very true.
 
Rockingham's failure can be summed in two points:

1. The local economy is terrible so the locals aren't able to financially provide adequate support for the track.
2. Because of 1, they have to rely on outsiders traveling to Rockingham to attend races and there is frankly no reason to travel to Rockingham. If you want to use the earlier "Charlotte is nearby" argument then those inclined towards Charlotte would probably rather go to CMS.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I dunno, I mean yea N. Wilkesboro suffered from the same condition that Rockingham suffered from. However, with SMI as the owner, you'd think the track would be in better hands, owned by a corporation that knows how to promote a track and the racing and knows how to work with local government to increase revenue so that a support system could be built around the track.
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North Wilkesboro was bought solely for the purpose of moving its races elsewhere.
 
FenderBumper said:
Do you know if moving that date resulted in another SMI track getting a second date?
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Citing North Wilkesboro Speedway's age and lack of modern amenities, former New Hampshire Motor Speedway owner Bob Bahre and Speedway Motorsports, Inc. CEO Bruton Smith, who already owned several NASCAR circuits, purchased the track in 1996. North Wilkesboro's spring date was given to Smith's new Texas Motor Speedway, while the fall date was taken over by Bahre's New Hampshire track and moved to early September as part of a schedule realignment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Wilkesboro_Speedway
 
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