my letter to nascar

Whizzer said:
FACT#1- #48 failed post-qualifying template inspection.
FACT #2- Chad got caught!!!
FACT #3- #96 failed post-qualifying inspection for use of unapproved (illegal)
carburetor.
FACT #4- Chad Knauss was suspended four races, probation entire season, fined.
FACT #5- #96 was fined and points taken.
FACT #6- #48 went on to win Daytona 500.
FACT #7 #48 passed exhaustive post-race inspection and declared legal.
FACT #8- Previous offenses (within past three years) involving use of unapproved
(illegal) parts were point reduction penalties.
FACT#10- Previous penalties involving cheating (or creative engineering) using legal
or approved parts received no point reduction.

Show me a valid media outlet that proves these facts are not correct and I'll apologize for posting incorrect information.

My big thought here is, why are fans obsessed with the #48 thing ??? They cheated, got caught, NASCAR imposed a consistent penalty as in the past whether we agree or not on the severity of the penalty. The #48 won the Daytona 500 and passed an exhaustive post-race inspection that was open to anyone in the garage !!!

If anyone thinks Childress, Roush, Yates, Gibbs or any other team owner thought there as a chance to challenge the #48 for being illegal, thye were there and had the opportunity to suggest to NASCAR where to look in the most remote of gray areas. The inspection process has been open in the garage for nearly ten years, unlike the earlier years when tech inspections were not done openly.

It seems Patrick 9999 has hit the nail on the head. Tony Stewart committed an act of total disregard for his fellow competitors yet the hew and cry goes to the #48 for winning the Daytona 500 and CHad Knauss cheating.
If you fans who are up in arms think there is inconsistency with NASCAR, perhaps some of you should look in the mirror and try to understand why the maneuver by Tony Stewart is unimportant. After all, what is worse.
Cheating for advantage or deliberately trying to wreck someone with callous disregard for fellow competitors, at 190 miles per hour ???? Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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HELL I KNEW THAT
 
BobbyFord said:
This is NASCAR, not dirt cars.
This is a little higher level where more money is at stake.
Johnson knew it. He even said "We're trying something new".
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Might be a higher level, but basicaly the same thing goes in to a nascar that goes in to a dirt car.

He said "he are trying something new" did he say what? maybe thats all he was told. or maybe they was trying something new with something else.
 
Whiz, my only wish is that Tony had done that manuever with the #48 car! Just kidding, so all you Jimmie fans calm down. :)

Of course, we all have no one else to get all this info from except NASCAR. Yeah, every team owner has the ability to challenge NASCAR, but what will that get them? Nothing, but more grief in the future. In fact, I'm betting that those owners are happy with what came down in penalties, meaning that if they get caught in the future, they can then expect the same sort of penalty, thus they know what to prepare for.
 
Tony might very well have done it with the 48 car if the 48 car had done something similar to what Matt did that ticked Stewart off.

When it comes to inspections, the press is permitted in the inspection area as well and in the event a car owner or thier representative had complained, rest assurred the press would jump on that like a bear goes to honey.
I doubt much went undetected with all the controversy that surrounded this car winning the Daytona 500.
In the future car owners need to make thier disatisfaction known even it it means some repercussions otherwise silence is consent.

As long as NASCAR applies consistent rules, that should be okay but when they flirt with playing favorites, they invite toruble from outside sources such as sponsors. As a long time fan, if one good thing came from the high price teams and other crap used to entertain the newbies, it is the beginning of consistent application of rules.

Yes, NASCAR does screw the pooch now and then and they pay a heavier price today than they did yesterday. Corporate sponsorships in the millions carry a lot of weight and if nothing else, demand equality on penalty and judgement calls EIRI.
 
What unapproved part cost JR. 25 points for saying s#$t on tv, or telling his crew he spun purposley to get a yellow flag.
 
racer8 said:
What unapproved part cost JR. 25 points for saying s#$t on tv, or telling his crew he spun purposley to get a yellow flag.
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And your point is ............................................................ :confused:
 
racer8 said:
What unapproved part cost JR. 25 points for saying s#$t on tv, or telling his crew he spun purposley to get a yellow flag.
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actually Junior got busted with a windsheild that was to thin a few years back. Not sure how you can measure the thickness of a windshield that is installed in a racecar, but nascar did fine him and remove points for it. Give me a minute and I will find a link..

I am a junior fan, but in all fairness your being nieve if you think the 48 team is the only cheaters. They are just the only ones who's crew cheif is dumb enough to get caught 8 times.

Now where the controversy and favoritism comes into play is the fact that the last 3 times have been VICTORIES for the 48 which they were allowed to keep even though they were found cheating at sometime during the event.

If at anytime during an event(qualifying, practice, and race make up an event) your car fails inspection, you lose that car till the event is over. If your back-up doesn't pass you are Dq'd from the event. That is the way it should be. Then there would be no griping.
 
kbmdale said:
Now where the controversy and favoritism comes into play is the fact that the last 3 times have been VICTORIES for the 48 which they were allowed to keep even though they were found cheating at sometime during the event.
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The controversy comes from disgruntled fans who want to believe NASCAR is playing favorites but have never offered proof. Only unfounded personal opinion.

And NASCAR has stripped how many victories from any winning team for cheating ?????? The #48 team might was cheating but they cheated within parameters or because there was no rule in the NASCAR rule book.

So where in the inconsistency or favoritism within the past three years ???
 
Whizzer said:
The controversy comes from disgruntled fans who want to believe NASCAR is playing favorites but have never offered proof. Only unfounded personal opinion.

And NASCAR has stripped how many victories from any winning team for cheating ?????? The #48 team might was cheating but they cheated within parameters or because there was no rule in the NASCAR rule book.

So where in the inconsistency or favoritism within the past three years ???
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LMAO..Cheat within PARAMETERS...if they are within the parameters then they weren't cheating.

OK here

in 04 at dega...The 9 of kayne and the 16 of biffle both failed post qualifying inspection for an UNAPROVED SPOILER ADJUSTMENT (wouldn't you agree the spoiler adjustment and the rear windo modification are similar infractions with the same outcome take air off the spoiler). The penalty LOSS OF 25POINTS, 25000 fine, loss of primary car till after event, start RACE at the end of the field..

Now the 48 got a fine and thats IT.. they started the race 9th...They forfited qualifying when they failed inspection so they technically should have never been in the duals..CAUSE THEY ARE QUALIFYING.

There that inconsistancy and clear favoritism...Your blind if you can't see NASCARS infactuaction with HMS and JOHNSON.
 
kbmdale said:
LMAO..Cheat within PARAMETERS...if they are within the parameters then they weren't cheating.
Your blind if you can't see NASCARS infactuaction with HMS and JOHNSON.
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In effect, what kbmdale is saying is that Chad Knauss did not cheat because he did not violate the rules and if that is the case, how can kbmdale claim there is favoritism or inconsistency toward the #48 team with the NASCAR decision ??

Cheating with parameters is like a defendant winning the court case on a technicality.
No matter how guilty the accused was, the law had a loophole. A technicality or parameter that did not cover all specifics or intent of a violation.

Just because the accused beats the charge in court does not necessarily mean they are not guilty.

When Biffle and Khane were penalized for modified spoiler, they "adjusted" the spoiler. This adjustment (defined as changing) made the spoiler an unapproved part and the offense punishable with a fine and points reduction.

In the case with the #48 car, the rear window was repositioned on the body but this did not change or modify the actual shape of the rear window thereby violating the rule, unapproved part.

This is a situation where the accused is guilty yet beats the rap on a technicality, something Knauss seemed to be aware of and used to his advantage.

But all of this brings to mind these questions.
If people think there is continued inconsistency in the way NASCAR applies rules to different teams, and it frustrates them so, why do they watch ???

Why are those of you facinated by a sport controlled by a sanctioning body rife with despotism and charged with capricous regulation, complain while the favored team(s) sit idly by and permit these injustices to continue ????

Are the favored teams and eight figure dollar sponsors so weak and spineless they merely watch rather than voice disapproval despite spending those tens of millions ????

Are the sponsors of the sport involved strictly for advertising value and care nothing about inconsistency and favortism or who wins as long as thier product name gets out in public and corporate sees a return on investment ???

In this modern day world, NASCAR is getting high marks for bringing in high dollar sponsors and international recognition as a sport.
NASCAR is the current premier racing series.
NASCAR is "where its at".
NASCAR is the "in place to be" and at the water cooler, the Monday morning quarterback is being replaced by the Monday morning crew chief.

NASCAR made the mistake years ago of playing the fools game with favoritism and inconsistent calls, but no more.

Until three years ago it might have been true there was blatant favortism but nowdays, there is too much to lose.

Brian France is not foolish enough to jeopardize the money machine by showing favortism to any one team or driver. As times have changed, NASCAR has changed with them.
 
You guys are all missing the big picture here.....this controversey generated by said cheaters is just playing right into Nascars' hands. It generates print which in turns makes people all the more likely to watch the next race or watch the post race interview to see what is going to happen next. All this keeps people interested, it is called Drama and all you and me included are playing right into it. Oh yeh and de7 you can't tell me you will go the rest of the season without watching another race. Seems i remember you saying this last year or the year before too. I don't like some of the stuff Nascar does, but it is still one of the best forms of racing out there IMO.
 
Whizzer said:
In effect, what kbmdale is saying is that Chad Knauss did not cheat because he did not violate the rules and if that is the case, how can kbmdale claim there is favoritism or inconsistency toward the #48 team with the NASCAR decision ??

QUOTE]

LMAO.. don't put words in my mouth. There is no such thing as cheating within PARAMETERS...thats just stupid....I was being sarcastic tword your obvious bias opinion that the 48 hung the moon.
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Sorry Whizzer but your aurguement is full of holes....

when you say this right here
"When Biffle and Khane were penalized for modified spoiler, they "adjusted" the spoiler. This adjustment (defined as changing) made the spoiler an unapproved part and the offense punishable with a fine and points reduction.

In the case with the #48 car, the rear window was repositioned on the body but this did not change or modify the actual shape of the rear window thereby violating the rule, unapproved part."

this proves your spin to make the 48 come out smelling like roses...

BOTH were legal PARTS, Biffle and kaynes were adjusted to an unapproved angle, the back windshield in the 48 was adjusted to an unapproved hieght...NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL IN THE INFRACTIONS.... and if you want to get technical about it, Knaus MODIFIED the BOLTS in the WINDOW to allow it to be raised and lowered when in fact it should have been stationary... So don't give us that hog wash about not changing the car...

LMAO..you johnson fans are really REACHING
 
Truth is there are only 2 ways to look at this

Johnsons my man and I am going to defend him no matter how wrong the team was

or

OMG WTF was Nascar thinking?
 
LMAO.. don't put words in my mouth. There is no such thing as cheating within PARAMETERS...thats just stupid....I was being sarcastic tword your obvious bias opinion that the 48 hung the moon.
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Put words in your mouth ??? I don't think so. The implication is in print and kbmdale put it there.

This is not about Jimmie Johnson's salvation or who hung the moon and quite honestly there isn't enough time or space to explain the logic since the most simplest of explanations have not met thier mark.

Somewhere on this forum there is a website address with an explanation of what NASCAR considers a point reduction penalty and what does not. Please read it. Larry McReynolds offers specific examples of NASCAR citing controversial penalties and his opinion.
Unfortunately, the spoiler "adjustments" kbmdale decries were not listed and at the time they were implemented were not controversial (I checked) and to this day are not controversial. Neither have claims been made they were inconsistent penalties.

With that in mind, the subject of "spoilergate" becomes irrelavent in this discussion until facts rather than personal biased opinions are offered.
 
lol.. how ever you need to spin it to be able to live with your boy go ahead. No real fan honestly thinks Larry Mac is anything more than a puppett and Nascar is pulling the strings... You obviously are one of those types that only see what you wanna see. The penalties all have the same 12-4-a and 12-4-q rule that was broken so what makes them so different...NASCAR said they wee LMAO...yeah they have a record of being honest.
 
kbmdale, all I can say to you is Whizzer has more than likely been in, amongst, around and watching Nascar longer than you have. He isn't a 'fan' of the #48, and as a matter of fact, I'm not real sure WHO he 'roots' for in Nascar. To him, it doesn't matter as far as I know.

Obviously, you were one of the ones saying OMG WTF Nascar. :D
 
Wonder how many here think Smokey Yunick was great, with all the cheating he did?
 
Yelk, good to see you posting again. As always, you offer intelligent thoughts and interesting subject matter.
I thought the innovations of "Smokey" were interesting and inventive. He pushed the envelope to the absolute limit. Yunick's cheating was frowned upon but at the same time somewhat accepted. That is the way things were in the early years. "Smokey" being innovative was just some of the "local color" of the sport and was accepted as such. Cheating wasn't necessarily a bad thing in the early years and guys who got caught were not necessarily scorned. After all, Junior Johnson and Richard Petty did well in establishing a list of cheating and favoritism charges and do not overlook the Childress team of the previous two decades.

Things began to change in the mid-1980's, shortly after Hal Needham and Burt Reynolds entered the sport. This is when cheating and favoritism became less acceptable but no one team or sponsor was strong or important enough to overcome the iron grip of NASCAR, and no one team being therecipient of the favoritism or inconsistent rules application had interest in seeing things change. Until they were placed on the other side of the fence.

The sport has grown so much in every scope, NASCAR has accepted a responsibility to each sponsor since even the least expensive sponsorship has multiple agreements with NASCAR.
This association gives those sponsors an outsider voice in making sure rules are followed, no one team is shown favoritism, rule book violations and EIRI calls are consistent.
If NASCAR fails in these efforts, the outcry of publicity will hurt the sport at a time when it is gaining a respected status in the international sporting world, and sponsors will look elsewhere to spend thier money.

Yes, I liked "Smokey" and Chad Knaus for being inventive, but both men were inventive in an effort to gain unfair advantage.
 
Whizzer, there's always been folks who have "pushed the envelope" since the begining of NASCAR and always will be. Some have even used laughing gas, and it has been said that Henley Gray was one of the best at hiding it. I too like these innovative people.
As for your past post about "special consideration" given to the late Dale Earnhardt, I agree. DE was probably given more "special consideration" than anyone. I remember one time DE's wheels came off after leaving the pits and his crew was allowed to go out and jack his car up to put the wheels on. One time the field was held up to let DE go around the track and pass, to get a lap back.
 
Oh yeh and de7 you can't tell me you will go the rest of the season without watching another race. Seems i remember you saying this last year or the year before too. I don't like some of the stuff Nascar does, but it is still one of the best forms of racing out there IMO.[/QUOTE]

i watched the daytona 500 this year at my buddys house, and last year i saw bits an pieces of some of the races, not many (can't get network TV in my neck of the woods) if you read my post i said i will not spend another dime on nascar and trust me I WON'T !! I will still watch the trucks till they screw that up.
 
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