My Thoughts on the Chase in light of the 13th Spot

SpeedPagan

SpeedPagan

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So I will be honest, I wasn't always against the Chase, in fact I thought it didn't really affect the season that much. I mean you still have to race hard for the first 26 races so that you can make it into the chase so the first 2/3rd of the season still mattered. It didn't hurt that my favorite driver was five time in a row champion due to The Chase. Of course I think Johnson would've won five championship under the old system since Chad and Johnson have been known to adjust and adapt to changes.

Hel, I even thought NASCAR had some good ideas with simplifying the points system and making winning races actually mean something. That way drivers aren't just points racing, but they're going for that win because it'd mean that they have a better chance of starting out near the top when The Chase begun.

Everyone and their grandmother knew that The Chase was a gimmick, but I accepted on some level because as a business owner myself, I know the importance of always improving your products and making changes so that you'd get more customers. The fact that it was a gimmick was no more apparent than the introduction of The Wildcard system. However, I accepted it because I knew NASCAR wanted an "underdog" story and it could've lead to some great races.

However in 2011, I started to have a problem with The Chase. IMHO, Carl Edwards should've been the 2011 Champion, not Stewart. Edwards was the one that's been super consistent all year long and continued to place top 10s and top 5 finishes as well as wins while Stewart just kicked it into gear during The Chase.

Now, I do not like The Chase and I see for what it really is, a gimmick that didn't grow the NASCAR brand or improved the product, and this is nowhere more blatant than what happened at Richmond with Bowyer and what happened today with the creation of the 13th Chase spot.

NASCAR: Get rid of The Chase.
 
I just don't see the chase going away. Things like what happened with Bowyer could have happened at the last race.. Say for argument sake, Truex Jr was the points leader but the guy behind him would win the title with a win (lets say Carl Edwards) so Carl is leading the race, Truex only chance is a caution so Bowyer spins on purpose.. Truex goes on to win the title.

I also think Nascar getting rid of the chase would make them feel like they're taking a step back.
 
Lazyking said:
I just don't see the chase going away. Things like what happened with Bowyer could have happened at the last race.. Say for argument sake, Truex Jr was the points leader but the guy behind him would win the title with a win (lets say Carl Edwards) so Carl is leading the race, Truex only chance is a caution so Bowyer spins on purpose.. Truex goes on to win the title.

I also think Nascar getting rid of the chase would make them feel like they're taking a step back.
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Well The Chase and all the recent controversy surrounding The Chase is making NASCAR seem less like a legitimate sporting operations and more like an entertainment company like the WWE.
 
I understand where you're coming from, Speed.

Didn't Carl have the highest average finish of anyone in Chase history, despite Stewie winning five races? Meh, it is what it is. A lot of us fans liked the idea of winning being pretty much everything, and now winning is pretty much everything. I think we got what we wanted there.

I still don't necessarily hate the Chase in and of itself, though I like it much less today than I liked it a few weeks ago. I concede that part of it is the increased ridiculousness of the teamwork/"manipulation" aspect of it that has come to light over the last several days. That irritates me somewhat. However, what really bothers me is the idea of NASCAR just adding and removing drivers from the Chase as they see fit. What is the point of even running these races if NASCAR is just gonna rewrite the script after the fact?

I wish they had just stuck with the Chase driver lineup that we had immediately following the race at Richmond, and if they were gonna take points away from MWR and/or Joey, do it after the reset. The offending teams would still have been punished, and it wouldn't have looked like NASCAR was merely picking and choosing who they wanted in the Chase. Gordon and Newman's plight would have been unfortunate but ultimately chalked up to circumstances, as it should have been.
 
SpeedPagan said:
[SNIP]

Now, I do not like The Chase and I see for what it really is, a gimmick that didn't grow the NASCAR brand or improved the product, and this is nowhere more blatant than what happened at Richmond with Bowyer and what happened today with the creation of the 13th Chase spot.

NASCAR: Get rid of The Chase.
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I would love to see NASCAR get rid of the chase as well.

That said, as far as the chase this year, letting Jeff have his rightful spot in the chase was the right thing to do. I think it should have come at the expense of Logano since he wouldn't be in the chase if Bowyer hadn't spun out, but I guess that would've created a bigger mess.
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
I would love to see NASCAR get rid of the chase as well.

That said, as far as the chase this year, letting Jeff have his rightful spot in the chase was the right thing to do. I think it should have come at the expense of Logano since he wouldn't be in the chase if Bowyer hadn't spun out, but I guess that would've created a bigger mess.
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I agree with the bold. If they were gonna put Gordon in, they should have taken Logano out. That would have made more sense and been more consistent of a ruling given that Truex got taken out under similar circumstances. As it stands right now, Truex is the only one that truly got punished in this whole deal, and to me that just isn't right.
 
you'd be foolish to think NASCAR isnt absolutely enjoying this right now.

nascar unlike any sport really holds on to a longggggg time frame..often mentioning wins drivers got 6-7 years ago. this the new age baby, nascar wants the cheese. whether positive or negative attention, going into football season nascar definitely wants the true fans it's got full attention. you're still going to watch the race anyway
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and going into next years last few races to the chase, this will be all thats talked about and probably for years to come
 
They would have to admit that they're wrong in order to do that.. and I don't know about you guys but I really don't see that happening with this generations leaders of NASCAR.
 
Sean87 said:
you'd be foolish to think NASCAR isnt absolutely enjoying this right now.
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Did you see the faces of Helton and France in the press conference? Didn't look like they were enjoying it.
 
KevinWI said:
Did you see the faces of Helton and France in the press conference? Didn't look like they were enjoying it.
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Both looked like they'd much rather be somewhere else, doing something else.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the meeting with ONLY drivers and crew chiefs. I bet it's going to be one of those "come to Jesus" meetings, as my grandmother used to call them. At least I hope it is.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Johnson would've won five championship under the old system since Chad and Johnson have been known to adjust and adapt to changes.
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Proven to be wrong. Only would have won 2, I think it was. The chase gave him the other 3.
 
I just think in the interest of integrity you can't award outcomes to victims. That isn't to say that a victim can't benefit from a penalty levied on another team, but the basis for the penalty is rooted in fact not on the perception of what the outcome should have been.

Get rid of the Chase and penalize teams and drivers severely for shenanigans. Take away points and access to practice before the next race. If it's at the end of the season have penalties carry over into the next season.
 
ToyYoda said:
You are correct, JJ would have won only the '06 and '09 titles. Woulda been Gordon in '07, Edwards in '08, and Harvick in '10.
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Gordon has a 6th somewhere in that mix too. The chase is what killed NASCAR. 5 in a row is unprecedented and boring, in ANY sport. How can NASCAR say "this is the most competitive era in racing ever" when one man dominates like that? The chase killed the diversity in NASCAR and the fans were no longer entertained.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Gordon has a 6th somewhere in that mix too. The chase is what killed NASCAR. 5 in a row is unprecedented and boring, in ANY sport. How can NASCAR say "this is the most competitive era in racing ever" when one man dominates like that? The chase killed the diversity in NASCAR and the fans were no longer entertained.
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Gordon would have also won the '04 championship without the Chase.
 
Ill tell you what, if someone from the NASCAR head office read ANYTHING on this forum from the past week, they'd immediately come to their senses & obliterate the chase.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Ill tell you what, if someone from the NASCAR head office read ANYTHING on this forum from the past week, they'd immediately come to their senses & obliterate the chase.
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Would they really? Brian France said this a few years ago when they were restructuring the Nationwide Series.

"I don't think so. It's a shorter season, for starters with 10 fewer races or so. That would create some issues," France said. "We have four national divisions, so we've got to distinguish them and doing too many things wouldn't do that. I don't think you'll see that."
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http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/nationwide/news/story?id=5471013&campaign=link&source=JAYSKI

36 - 33 = 10 or so race difference? Four national divisions? It all starts at the top, and this is who we have up there.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Well The Chase and all the recent controversy surrounding The Chase is making NASCAR seem less like a legitimate sporting operations and more like an entertainment company like the WWE.
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jmo: a legitimate sporting event only exists until it's popularity creates enough interest that the money involved corrupts the purity of competition.

considering the $$$ involved in most of the big sports, i'm about ready to settle for entertainment.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Ill tell you what, if someone from the NASCAR head office read ANYTHING on this forum from the past week, they'd immediately come to their senses & obliterate the chase.
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That's the best thing that could come from all this. Sure, the points wouldn't be as tight late in the season, but I kinda miss the days when with about 1/3 of the season left, two guys had established themselves as the top contenders. There were some great championship battles like this: Earnhardt vs. Rusty in '93, Gordon vs. Earnhardt in '95, Gordon vs. Martin in '98, etc. We don't necessarily need 13 drivers within 15 points of each other with 10 races to go.
 
DSquad48 said:
I think his point was that JJ and Chad gear their strategy towards performing the best during the Chase.
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Pretty sure that's every chase teams strategy, JJ just seemed to catch every damn break in the book.
 
When I first heard this news tonight at work, I was completely dumbfounded....

First off, I like Jeff Gordon, so this has nothing to do with Jeff. I dont care what driver it was, this decision to put Gordon in as a 13th driver is a complete farce!!!

Let's look at this from a neutral perspective....

Jeff Gordon was not in the lead, not fighting for a win, he was in 7th place with 9 laps to go, 7th place! Then the Bowyer spin happens and the order gets all shuffled up. So basically, NASCAR manipulated the results with a predicted outcome that the race would have ended with drivers in the same position before the spin. This is completely BOGUS!

Jeff could have lost positions on the track by being passed, mechanical issue, or a crash (his fault or not). We will never know, nor will NASCAR. So if they decided to keep Jeff's position as is, why didn't they score every other driver in their current position just before the caution came out ?? I do agree with the Newman decision because he was in the lead.

In my opinion, its because it was Hendrick's driver. Had this been Jamie McMurray or a David Ragan, NASCAR would NOThave made a 13th position. It would of been pretty much sorry, you are not in.

NASCAR bowed down to the Hendrick's gods and the crying fans so they could put Jeff in the chase. They try to make their bogus case more convincing by saying Logano and Gilliland did something wrong.... Please, spotters of different teams help each other out all the time....

NASCAR has dug a deeper hole now than what they had Sunday morning. Adding another spot for the chase to 13th just to get Jeff in, seriously ????

So what's next, 14 drivers, 15 ?? Where does it end ?? This decision will create a lot of headache in the future I feel. They want to talk about integrity, well this is not it. They change rules midstream. This sets a bad example. This is fabricating race outcomes and manufacturing a championship run. The penalty should have been Bowyer out of the chase for the intentional spin and Newman in, thats it!

Maybe we will get lucky and they will drop the chase for good.... Yeah right...lol
winks.gif
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Ill tell you what, if someone from the NASCAR head office read ANYTHING on this forum from the past week, they'd immediately come to their senses & obliterate the chase.
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They'd think we were nuts to believe that this had anything to do with the chase . It happened in the regular season .The most opportune time for it to happen would have been in the final race to decide the championship . I'm more surprised by the reaction of the newbies than I am by the reaction of Nascar (they always try to please the fans first). I'm expecting to see a lot of regular posters on this forum disappear as they take their dismay and go to another sport . Let me be the first to say 'We'll miss you'. Just sayin:D
 
" Had this been Jamie McMurray or a David Ragan, NASCAR wouldNOThave made a 13th position. It would of been pretty much sorry, you are not in."

I feel no one in their right mind could disagree with that statement.

Gordon's consistency didn't get him in the chase, MWR's antics didn't get him in the chase...

Nascar's pandering to the big money man and a lot of whining ass Gordon fans got him in the chase.
 
97forever said:
" Had this been Jamie McMurray or a David Ragan, NASCAR wouldNOThave made a 13th position. It would of been pretty much sorry, you are not in."

I feel no one in their right mind could disagree with that statement.

Gordon's consistency didn't get him in the chase, MWR's antics didn't get him in the chase...

Nascar's pandering to the big money man and a lot of whining ass Gordon fans got him in the chase.
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U mad bro?
 
If Gordon ends up at the end of the year banquet, I really wanna hear him thank Mr. Penske for giving him the opportunity to win a championship in 2013
 
ChexOrWrex said:
U mad bro?
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First off, this is a NASCAR message board, not 4chan or your local frat house.

Second off, I don't see how anyone couldn't, or wouldn't be mad at such an obvious fix by the sanctioning body. I guess the days where the philosophy "It is what it is" held true in the sport is no longer with us. I dunno why the Gordon fans are so excited about the 13th spot, it's not like Gordon is going to have a fire lit under his ass and he's going to win in 2013. He's going to languish around at the bottom of the standings and you all know it.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
U mad bro?
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Nah dude, I ain't been mad since around '87 or so.

The only thing that kept Gordon out of the chase was his own mediocre performance this year. The guy just isn't Jimmie Johnson, you know? Ultimately, thats the truth. In races, things happen---even bizarre things. You offset them by out performing the competition enough to offset those unforseen occurrances when they do inevitably occur.It's really not arguable in any way form or fashion. Official results---REGARDLESS OF UNFORSEEN EVENTS--- should be official. You take what the racing gods deal and move on to the next track.

Winning, not whining, should dictate who is in the chase, right?
 
97forever said:
Nah dude, I ain't been mad since around '87 or so.

The only thing that kept Gordon out of the chase was his own mediocre performance this year. The guy just isn't Jimmie Johnson, you know? Ultimately, thats the truth. In races, things happen---even bizarre things. You offset them by out performing the competition enough to offset those unforseen occurrances when they do inevitably occur.It's really not arguable in any way form or fashion. Official results---REGARDLESS OF UNFORSEEN EVENTS--- should be official. You take what the racing gods deal and move on to the next track.

Winning, not whining, should dictate who is in the chase, right?
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Hear hear!
 
#17D500winner said:
Is that similar to the herd mentality which had the Gordon fans flailing about?
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Are you that far gone that you can't comprehend the difference between NASCAR being too big to bribe and some Gordon fans being upset eith MWR? Seriously? I realize that you are one of many here that seem to obsess over my posts but this is a new low even for you, man.

But as a token of peace, I'll leave a you this:
 

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97forever said:
Nah dude, I ain't been mad since around '87 or so.

You take what the racing gods deal and move on to the next track.

Winning, not whining, should dictate who is in the chase, right?
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Well if you ain't mad you must not be thinking clearly. ...."You take what the racing gods deal and move on...."
Seriously?

MWR aren't racing gods. They are the ones who dealt this BS out. Someone has had to go and remedy the situation.
Winning and not whining?...take some of your own advice ...Please.

Gordon's in. Deal with it.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Are you that far gone that you can't comprehend the difference between NASCAR being too big to bribe and some Gordon fans being upset eith MWR? Seriously? I realize that you are one of many here that seem to obsess over my posts but this is a new low even for you, man.

But as a token of peace, I'll leave a you this:
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None of what has taken place in the last 8 days is about me.
 
Only 12 competitors get into the chase per the rules. Rules are rules Nascar says except when we change them to increase our profits,,
Thanks fer askin'
Brain
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Gordon has a 6th somewhere in that mix too. The chase is what killed NASCAR. 5 in a row is unprecedented and boring, in ANY sport. How can NASCAR say "this is the most competitive era in racing ever" when one man dominates like that? The chase killed the diversity in NASCAR and the fans were no longer entertained.
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So there were never times in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's when one driver dominated the sport? lol Petty.. Waltrip.. Earnhardt... Gordon... now Johnson... granted Ill give you that Johnson never would have won 5 in a row and that is boring. He would still be the one to beat. I don't even like the guy but he has 64 wins in 425 starts.. regardless of the fact that he's one of if not the most penalized team in the sport this is his time.

That being said... soon it will be a new era and Johnson will subside eventually and another driver will become dominant.. and the fans will hate that driver too.

Except of course those of us that have rooted for him since '09 :p
 
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