NASCAR almost stopped the race last night!

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From NASCAR.com

Tire concerns prompted talks of cancelling race
By Marty Smith, NASCAR.COM
October 16, 2005
12:01 PM EDT (16:01 GMT)

CONCORD, N.C. -- NASCAR officials were so concerned with the rash of blown tires Saturday at Lowe's Motor Speedway that they contemplated calling the event early due to competitor mechanical problems for the first time in the sport's history.

"I cannot remember a precedent," NASCAR spokesman Jim Hunter said. "I think that was a first."

But president Mike Helton instead opted to send pit road inspectors to the teams' pit stalls to send warning that NASCAR would gauge their tire pressures, and if those pressures failed to comply with NASCAR specifications the teams would be subject to penalty -- including points deductions.

"There was serious discussion about stopping the race, period," Hunter said.

Helton reiterated Hunter's statement, saying the night's uncharacteristic circumstances warranted uncharacteristic response.

"In the best interest to finish this event as correctly as it could, we took that step, which was more unusual than we've done in the past," Helton said. "But the evening itself was more unusual than it's ever been."

Helton said no teams face points penalties and NASCAR planned no further reaction.

"We talked about a lot of options, and the enforcing of the recommended air pressure was the one we come up with the try to get through the evening, but certainly we talked about the option of having to shorten the race," Helton said.
 
I read that as well, and considering the tire problems in the Busch Race the night before, I think they ended up making the right decision.
That track needs an "EXTREME MAKEOVER NASCAR EDITION" well before May 2006 so the track can "cure" and settle enough to allow for testing. JMO
 
I have a good feeling that Humpy will be on the phone first thing Monday morning to get that repaving done ASAP.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
But president Mike Helton instead opted to send pit road inspectors to the teams' pit stalls to send warning that NASCAR would gauge their tire pressures, and if those pressures failed to comply with NASCAR specifications the teams would be subject to penalty -- including points deductions.
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After the Bush race probems, this should have been addressed before the start of the Cup race.
However, there were still tire problems after that action. So low pressures were not the main cause.

There have been tire problems at several other tracks this year. Will they end up repaving them all? To take the heat off Goodyear?
 
i thought i heard the announcers on TV say something about the track owner had already announced in the drivers meeting that it was being repaved before the next race there. Did anyone else hear something to that effect?
 
majestyx said:
I have a good feeling that Humpy will be on the phone first thing Monday morning to get that repaving done ASAP.
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I have word that it will be done before the spring race.
 
Guido said:
I have word that it will be done before the spring race.
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I have also heard Humpy say that too. I just think it will be done a lot sooner now.
 
I agree with maj, and it should be done asap before the winter type weather sets in so that in the spring it can be reassed well before the May 2006 race.
 
In order to have time to cure, the paving must be completed at least 4 weeks before the race. The more time, the better. Otherwise, those heavy cars will tear it up in the corners.

I'm hoping the bulldozers and backhoes are already at work.
 
Charlotte used to be an awesome racetrack. Put some bumps in there, humpy.
 
What i can't understand is why Goodyear didn't bring the right tire. They knew the speeds were going to substantially faster than the year before. The spring race was a good indicator of that, so why didn't Goodyear prepare a tire that could withstand the higher speeds, specificaly a right front tire? Seems to me this is kind of the same issue that went on at Indy with the formula 1 guys.
 
I thought they said Goodyear brought the tires that were indicated from the testing that Stewart and Biffle did. They didn't have any tire issues even tho they both wrecked twice. Then Wheeler changed the track again after this testing in the summer and didn't tell anyone about it. Goodyear nor NASCAR ever knew anything about it until it was too late to respond.
 
Yup. Humpy drug tires around the track which laid down more rubber which equals more grip. Also not every team had blistering issues. Those that ran agressive camber in the right front tended to have the issues.
 
barelypure said:
Then Wheeler changed the track again after this testing in the summer and didn't tell anyone about it. Goodyear nor NASCAR ever knew anything about it until it was too late to respond.
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That's not true. I knew. Reporters knew. It was mentioned on several broadcasts.
I bet NASCAR knew. I bet Goodyear knew. That's their business. Know what's going on. Everbody knew.
 
Humpy Wheeler Quote:

There's only two ways to smooth out a track. You either pave it or you mill it. We certainly did not have time to pave it (following the May race) and it would certainly not have given Goodyear any time to have really done a test by the time we got through because they really need at least 30 days prior to the time the cars roll in to have a proper tire for the event.
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Goodyear should not be blamed for this situation. Test has to be done to determine what compound to use. They tested before Humpy laid down the rubber and when you have teams on the edge with their camber tires are going to blister. Stuff happens. They'll repave and you'll have a nice one grove track for the All Star race next May. Whoopee!
 
There have been tire problems all season. Goodyear's race program stinks. But they are a major sponsor, so nothing can ever be their fault.
 
Oh I know. Building a tire for a 3400 pound stock car is a cake walk. Mind you that there were many teams bitching about having to run the recommended tire pressure. Lets lean that baby in as far as we can go so that we can go really really fast in the corners. That tire will hold! Your driving on the wings of Goodyear!!!
 
Bumpzter,

Those Goodyear Racing Eagles, like any other tire, are designed to be operated within certain parameters.
When the teams decide to go beyond those parameters, how can you blame Goodyear and their product?

Shortly after the radial tire came to NASCAR the teams learned that they could run much softer springs, larger swaybars, play with their shock rates and go even further by using the sidewall of the tires as a large part of their suspension systems.

Larry McReynolds even built a device to check the spring rates of the tires and the effects of changes in tire pressure.
Within a very short time, every team had the tool on their haulers and NASCAR told the teams those tools would no longer be allowed at the tracks during events.
Teams were running the tires so soft that the beads would not stay seated on the rims.
And because of the spring and shock packages, the softer compound tires and the radical suspension geometry the cars got faster.
But...
and there's almost always a but; with all these changes, the tires simply cannot withstand the abuse they are being subjected to.

NASCAR has warned the teams several times this season about running the minimun recommended tire pressures and it would appear that some teams are not paying a great deal of attention.

As far as this last Saturday night and folks blaming Goodyear for not having the right tire; they went with the tire they had tested with two weeks before the race. The track owners dragged rubber onto the track, there were other events which put down rubber, in short, the track changed.
Not really anybody's fault.

I wonder if you and others realize what is involved in gettng a new tire developed and to the track?
You do realize that Goodyear has to bring both left and right side tires and have enough of each to supply all the teams don't you?
I believe that it's something on the order of around 2000 tires for each event.
You realize also that those racing tires are all laid up by hand and not machine made, don't you?
But Goodyear should have come up with a new tire, manufactured enough for the event and done it all in less than two weeks?
Not to mention getting that new tire to at least some teams for testing before the event.
There simply wasn't time to get another tire tested before the event.

It all comes down to the fact that some teams are abusing the tires and blaming the tire manufacturer for their problems.

If this continues, do not be surprised to see NASCAR mandate such things as spring and shock rates at all tracks, suspension geometry, both front and rear and of course tire pressures.

Then we can listen to the fans scream and hollar even more about that nasty old NASCAR and all its stupid rules.

Whatever happened to racing as hard as the equipment and facility would allow?
Where is it written that the best racing is simply running around the track side by side, right foot flat on the floor and just turn left at the end of the straightaway?
Just a couple of things this old phart wonders about now and then.
 
Hi boB.
I know, nothing is easy. Nobody plays by the rules. Goodyear publishes specs. Race teams don't follow them. So what else is new?
Very few drivers have the guts to complain. The others keep their mouth shut because Goodyear is a major sponsor.
IMO, Goodyear needs competition. They are not keeping up with today's requirements. But then I wonder if they would try and compete, or leave like they did in open wheels racing.
 
I recall only too well the "tire war" when Hoosier came to Winston Cup and the resulting tire failures and fatalities.

As far as Goodyear and the Champ cars, I don't believe they felt the marketing benefits came close to overriding the costs involved to supply those series.

Hoosier simply doesn't have the manufacturing ability to supply the three top series; I believe that was the reason they left before. NASCAR required each supplier to bring enough tires for all the teams and Hoosier was unable to comply.

I am sort of surprised that Bridgestone/Firestone or Michelin haven't attempted to get on board the NASCAR band wagon though.
I've been around long enough to remember when Firestone was THE tire of the old Grand National series. I never could understand the reason for them leaving, but they dropped out of racing completely for quite a few years there.
Most certainly it had to do with the marketing issues; dollar returns for dollar spent and all that sort of thing.
 
Good Year does need competition. NASCAR, the teams nor the drivers will complain about Good Year when things go wrong. Not long ago, there were tire problems in another race and one driver screamed long and loud after the race ended. The following day that same complaining driver recanted and stated the Good Year tires were wonderful.

With competition such as Hoosier, (an example) you can't help but believe things might be different.
The teams do push the limit to the extreme edge because previous experience indicated Good Year tires would withstand brutal punishment. They just couldn't handle it Saturday night but Good Year did have enough time to get it right and still they blew it !!!!!!

Just as Lowe's Motor Speedway had ample opportunity to get it right and also screwed up. LMS management was looking for the kind of speed they get at Atlanta but got a nightmare.
 
I'm lost. How did Goodyear have enough time to get it right? Did they have some sort of crystal ball?
 
Nobody claims that racing is an easy business. The ones that reach the top are forever pushing the envelope. That goes for every aspect. Drivers. Parts. Setups. But what about the tires?

A Goodyear spokesman made the comment that those tires were not designed for these high speeds. Not designed for the grip the track gave. Not designed for the heat.

They are designing tires (I am talking about race tires only) for yesterday. Not for today. They need competition. Like they have for street tires.
 
I'm not an open wheel fan & watch very little, so forgive my ignorance. Doesn't Firestone provide tires for these cars ?? At the speeds they push in those cars, seems like they could probably make an awesome Nascar tire. I'm sure there is a significant weight difference, but doesn't the downforce of the open wheelers make up for that ??
 
I am not going to try to get into physics or anything but I am sure the amount of pressure applied to a tire on an open wheel car is less then a stock car.
 
Anybody watch Inside Nextel Cup? Great discussion about tires including a Goodyear Exec and I understand a lot more now.
 
Nope i missed it, getting back to the air pressure issue....why didn't Good Year mandate to all the teams after happy hour or during happy hour that minimum air pressures be run. Seems to me they knew they were going to have problems, also if they were running 3-5 mph faster you would think that the tire they brought could withstand this increase in speed???? Just stinks of poor judgement and planning IMO.
 
I'm not sure how much an open wheel cars weighs but I think the have an incredible amount of downforce. Someone here who knows more about physics could probably explain speed/downforce/weight ratois better than I can.
 
kat2220 said:
Anybody watch Inside Nextel Cup? Great discussion about tires including a Goodyear Exec and I understand a lot more now.
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I saw it, but what did he say? They were satisfied with the performance of their tires at the May race. (Was that a joke?) They used data from the Open Test after the track was ground down again. Drivers complained that there was not enough grip, but they were satisfied with the results and felt confident that the tires were good.
Sounds to me like he went to the same school the head of FEMA did. :growl:

And what about that sickening Michael Blubberlip? Is there anything he won't do for a sponsor?
 
Mopardh9 said:
also if they were running 3-5 mph faster you would think that the tire they brought could withstand this increase in speed??
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I'm sure there are tons of engeneering that goes into a tire, then theres time to make the compounds, theres time to make the tire theres time to ship the tires. Mabey.....just mabey there was not enough time.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Nope i missed it, getting back to the air pressure issue....why didn't Good Year mandate to all the teams after happy hour or during happy hour that minimum air pressures be run. Seems to me they knew they were going to have problems, also if they were running 3-5 mph faster you would think that the tire they brought could withstand this increase in speed???? Just stinks of poor judgement and planning IMO.
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Goodyear cannot mandate what pressure is ran on a tire. They can only give recommended numbers. Speed had nothing to do with the tire issues. What was a problem was the amount of grip the race track held. Drivers could mat the gas and the car would stick. The amount of heat that built up because of that grip caused tires to blister and then pop. Some teams (the ones that had popped tires) ran their camber more aggressive then others. Lets all quit being engineers and try to play the blame game. Honestly I put this issue squarly on the track owner as this would have never been an issue had the track never been ground down in the first place.
 
N2racin88 said:
I'm lost. How did Goodyear have enough time to get it right? Did they have some sort of crystal ball?
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Tests were conducted by Good Year two weeks prior to the event with Biffle and Stewart having problems.
During the following time frame, Good Year had time to evaluate every possible scenario, including teams pushing the envelope with low air pressure and camber issues deemed beyond tire limits.

There were failures of the right rear tires during testing, and during the event, AFTER Good Year declared the pressures were to low and NASCAR mandated a rise to fifty pounds, the right rear tires failed.

In retrospect, perhaps it is a reasonable suggestion Good Year use a crystal ball. Or a fortune teller. Maybe it will produce better results.
 
Whizzer said:
Tests were conducted by Good Year two weeks prior to the event with Biffle and Stewart having problems.
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Lowes Screwed up the track and Good year has ONLY 2 weeks to produce a better tire. Whats wrong with this picture. Good year is taking the brunt when it shouldn't.
 
Hmmmm!!

Tires blistering?
Drivers staying out until that tire blows out?
Cars into the wall?

Can't today's "best drivers in the world" tell they've got a tire problem?

I never blistered a tire that I couldn't feel it long before it blew out. Not that I can recall.

Let's see, position is everything in today's racing. Yeppers, I'll agree with that, but that theory ends when the car hits the wall, doesn't it? OR is that the position everyone is racing for in today's circus?

Geez, even my wife would know something was wrong when the tire started to bounce and thump.
Probably would drop down on the apron and bring the car into the pits to find out why.
I think!

I was under the impression that NASCAR simply told the teams that were running less than recommended pressures to increase them to what the tire engineers did recommend. If those teams chose to still ignore the recommendations, NASCAR might impose fines and other penilties.
Didn't hear anything about requiring all teams to run fifty pounds in the right rear.
That's way over what the old bias ply tire was run at, would probably make the car so loose that everyone would have been in the wall backwards.
 
Bucky Badger said:
Lowes Screwed up the track and Good year has ONLY 2 weeks to produce a better tire. Whats wrong with this picture. Good year is taking the brunt when it shouldn't.
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What's wrong with this picture? Hello! Should have watched INCR last night. The top dog of Goodyear Racing program said they monitored the tests and decided that their tires were just fine.
 
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