NASCAR doesn't see Kenseth/Vickers wreck as retaliation

mike honcho

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•NASCAR didn't see Kenseth-Vickers wreck as retaliation: NASCAR officials didn't see Sunday's incident at Phoenix International Raceway between Brian Vickers and Matt Kenseth as retaliation. Kenseth disagreed. "Had we felt it was more than a racing incident we would have reacted,'' Sprint Cup Series director John Darby said afterwards. Kenseth called NASCAR out for not responding to Vickers wrecking him the way the governing body responded to Kyle Busch deliberately running Ron Hornaday Jr. into the wall during the Truck Series race last week at Texas Motor Speedway. "Obviously, it is retaliation for retaliation, I guess,'' said Kenseth, whose championship hopes basically ended three weeks ago when he and Vickers got into several on track exchanges at Martinsville Speedway. "I was out of brakes and I was up on everybody and I saw him coming and I lifted at least 10 car lengths before where I normally would lift, and he drove in there at 165 miles per hour and cleaned us out.'' Kenseth reminded NASCAR that Vickers vowed payback after Martinsville. "If NASCAR is going to start parking people for being mad 25 seconds after you wreck and wrecking somebody, then you would park somebody for that,'' he said. "It was so premeditated. It just surprises me that [NASCAR] didn't do anything. I am disappointed, but I expected it.'' Vickers told reporters that he didn't intentionally run over Kenseth, and that he was surprised when Kenseth lifted. "If he wants to doubt us, that's fine," Vickers said. "He wrecked me at Martinsville, he got wrecked here, but it actually wasn't (payback). I'm not saying I wasn't going to pay him back, but I'm just saying that wasn't it."(ESPN)(11-14-2011)
 
NASCAR KNOWS what it was, just like they KNOW Matt's move at MV was retaliation. This is exactly what they want. Retaliation and policing that kinda, sorta looks like racing. It's exactly what was done back in the day, so I'm all for it, within reason.
 
Vickers "If he wants to doubt us, that's fine," Vickers said. "He wrecked me at Martinsville, he got wrecked here, but it actually wasn't (payback). I'm not saying I wasn't going to pay him back, but I'm just saying that wasn't it."


:D The way I read that is Vickers believes he still owes Kenseth a payback :D

and that Phoenix was an accidental payback?
 
If in fact it is retaliation that Nascar wants, they may just get their wish at Homestead as Stewart and Edwards BOTH have built up some retaliation karma over the years...they don't need to wreck each other.
 
They way I see it "Boys have at it" is still in place. And that's fine with me. Just don't pull a Kyle Busch. There is a HUGE difference and anyone that can't see the difference should try taking up Golf as a spectator sport. :D
 
From NASCAR.com...

Here's to hoping for title chase, not tit for tat
Vickers and misguided sense of retaliation have already done enough damage
By Joe Menzer, NASCAR.COM
November 14, 2011 3:35 PM, EST
It's all set up just the way it should be, and as close to the way NASCAR would have scripted it as it has been in a long, long time.
The Chase for the Sprint Cup is coming down to the final race this Sunday at Miami-Homestead Speedway with some real drama building. One race. Two drivers. And only three points separating them in the Chase standings.
Well, the hope is that nothing will screw it up. But as long as Brian Vickers and possibly some other narrow-minded, short-sighted drivers are entered in the field of 43 ... you never really know.
What could possibly screw this up?
Well, the hope is that nothing will screw it up. But as long as Brian Vickers and possibly some other narrow-minded, short-sighted drivers are entered in the field of 43 along with championship contenders Carl Edwards and Tony Stewart this Sunday, you never really know.
That much was underscored this past Sunday at Phoenix International Raceway, where television replays clearly showed Vickers driving right into the back of Matt Kenseth's No. 17 Ford on Lap 177 of the Kobalt Tools 500 in an apparent move of retaliation for another series of incidents involving the two drivers two weeks earlier at Martinsville Speedway.
Although Vickers later denied to at least one reporter that he deliberately took out Kenseth, the videotape appeared to tell a different tale, leaving Kenseth livid. In light of what happened one week earlier -- when Kyle Busch got parked for the remainder of the race weekend at Texas after wrecking Ron Hornaday during a caution early in the Camping World Truck Series -- it was justifiably mystifying to Kenseth and others as to why Vickers was allowed to get away with it without any kind of penalty levied by NASCAR. Everyone had seemed to agree that it was time to bring some sanity to all this tit-for-tat retaliation business.
John Darby, managing director of competition for the Sprint Cup Series, issued a statement following the race that said: "Had we felt it was more than a racing incident, we would have reacted." But this seemed more than coincidental or hardly incidental, and wasn't the first time in recent weeks that Vickers bounced off multiple cars only to escape the day without so much as a reprimand from the governing body that supposedly is trying to cut down on needless retaliation.
Kenseth's case
To fill in the background, Kenseth and Vickers tangled at Martinsville for several laps, banging door-to-door, before Kenseth, then still a legitimate Chase contender, grew weary of it and booted Vickers out of the way. Kenseth argued later that he had the faster car and that he could wait patiently only so long and absorb only so much door-to-door abuse before he had to move the slower Vickers out of the way.
Was Kenseth in the wrong? Not really. If he was faster, and it certainly appears that he's been markedly faster than the struggling Vickers all season, then you do what you have to do at a short track like Martinsville after giving the slower car and driver every opportunity in the world to move out of the way within a reasonable period of time.

Yet this apparently stuck in Vickers' craw. He tried to get Kenseth back later in the day at Martinsville, but failed and only managed to spin himself out. He vowed to get even some day soon. That led to last Sunday, when Vickers, who finished the day 23rd in the race and 25th in the point standings, finally appeared to seize what he saw as just that opportunity.
"Well yeah, obviously it is retaliation for retaliation I guess," said Kenseth, who finished 34th in the race but remains sixth in the points. "I was out of brakes and I was up on everybody and I saw him coming and I lifted at least 10 car lengths before where I would normally lift and he drove in there at 165 miles per hour and cleaned us out. I don't know. If NASCAR is going to start parking people for being mad 25 seconds after you wreck and wrecking somebody [in reference to the Busch-Hornaday incident], then [it seems] you would park somebody for that.
"You have someone who has been telling everybody for four or five weeks [actually only two] that as soon as he got a chance at a fast race track he was going to make it hurt and wipe us out -- and they do nothing about it. It was so premeditated it just surprises me that they didn't do anything."
So while Kenseth admitted he wasn't totally surprised Vickers took a shot at him, he just couldn't figure out why NASCAR didn't penalize Vickers for it.
"I am disappointed, but I expected it," Kenseth said. "We aren't racing street stocks at a quarter-mile track, so they need to figure out how to get the drivers to settle their differences in a different way and talk about it or figure it out or do something instead of using your car as a battering ram somewhere this fast."
This Sunday
Vickers began this season as one of the top feel-good stories in NASCAR. He was returning to the track after missing most of last season because of a blood-clotting condition that needed to be treated.

But on a day when Kasey Kahne, Vickers' teammate at soon-to-be-defunct Red Bull Racing, won the race and everyone should have been talking about that and the dramatic championship battle being waged between Edwards and Stewarts, Vickers inappropriately injected himself into the conversation. What if Edwards and/or Stewart had been caught up as collateral damage in the wreck he caused?
Vickers presumably is out of a Cup ride at the end of the season when Red Bull carries out plans to close down the organization. He could end up in another seat depending on what happens with efforts to revive the Red Bull operation in some other shape, form or fashion -- or if someone else steps up to offer him an opportunity.
But he's doing himself no favors and making few friends in the Sprint Cup garage these days. Kenseth, who is about to complete his 12th full season driving for Roush Fenway Racing and owns 21 career Cup victories to Vickers' two wins and zero titles, hardly has a reputation for taking cheap shots.
Asked after Sunday's latest incident if he had been tempted to take Vickers out when he finally returned to the track at Phoenix many laps down, Kenseth replied: "No, not at all. I don't stoop to that level. When we had our problem at Martinsville, it was heat of the moment where he hit me eight or nine times and I hit him once.
"In hindsight I should have let him go and left him alone because you realize who he is and what he is and all that. You probably should leave him alone and go on. I would never sit down there and wait for somebody and take a cheap shot like that. You can hurt someone like that and that isn't sportsmanlike and that isn't something I would do."
Asked what he would do about it now, Kenseth added: "Nothing. We go race at Homestead."
Let's hope they both have enough good sense to stay out of the way of the guys racing for the trophy. Kenseth, it appears, can be trusted to use his God-given common sense. Vickers? We'll have to get back to you on that one.
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer.
 
They way I see it "Boys have at it" is still in place. And that's fine with me. Just don't pull a Kyle Busch. There is a HUGE difference and anyone that can't see the difference should try taking up Golf as a spectator sport. :D

This wreck is the definition of"boys have at it".Wreck who you want under green and on the racing part of the track.No trouble.Anything or anywhere else gets you in trouble.
 
Joe Menzer is a hack. He talks about Vickers as if he always goes out wrecking people. At Sonoma, Tony drove him into 4 other cars and took it like a man when Vickers retaliated.

From what I remember, Vickers had the faster car at MV and was marching to the front. Matt raced him hard, and they touched a couple of times. Matts story went from being hit 3 times to being hit 8 or 9 before wrecking Vickers. Matt said he intentionally wrecked Brian, which wasn't too bright in the end.
 
I like Menzer's interpretation.
The hack is the guy currently sitting 25th in points, with no secured ride in 2012.
 
I like Menzer's interpretation.
The hack is the guy currently sitting 25th in points, with no secured ride in 2012.

Agreed.

And look at the 4 car...A one year team, sitting in 14th...5 points behind 13. I wonder why the 83 can't do that? *waits for excuses to roll in*:D
 
Agreed.

And look at the 4 car...A one year team, sitting in 14th...5 points behind 13. I wonder why the 83 can't do that? *waits for excuses to roll in*:D

Funny, considering just a few weeks ago people were saying what a hack Kahne was, and how overrated he was....
 
Joe Menzer is a hack. He talks about Vickers as if he always goes out wrecking people. At Sonoma, Tony drove him into 4 other cars and took it like a man when Vickers retaliated.

From what I remember, Vickers had the faster car at MV and was marching to the front. Matt raced him hard, and they touched a couple of times. Matts story went from being hit 3 times to being hit 8 or 9 before wrecking Vickers. Matt said he intentionally wrecked Brian, which wasn't too bright in the end.

Exactly. Kenseth's wrecked Brian a few times this season -- and a lot of others have intentionally wrecked him out of top-ten runs. Brian's out of a ride with nothing to lose so he's cashing in his chips.
 
Exactly. Kenseth's wrecked Brian a few times this season -- and a lot of others have intentionally wrecked him out of top-ten runs. Brian's out of a ride with nothing to lose so he's cashing in his chips.

He might want to save one or two to buy a ride next year:owquitit:
 
Exactly. Kenseth's wrecked Brian a few times this season -- and a lot of others have intentionally wrecked him out of top-ten runs. Brian's out of a ride with nothing to lose so he's cashing in his chips.

I like Matt more than I do Brian, but I call it like it is, not the way the media feeds it to me. Matt intentionally wrecked BV, and said so on TV. Brian wrecked Matt, and didn't have to say anything. Simple as pie.
 
I like Matt more than I do Brian, but I call it like it is, not the way the media feeds it to me. Matt intentionally wrecked BV, and said so on TV. Brian wrecked Matt, and didn't have to say anything. Simple as pie.

Matt is an asshat who has always, intentionally, wrecked drivers. Then he always tries to play the victim card. He's exactly like Carl Edwards.

He's wrecked Harvick, under caution, at Pocono a few years ago, as well as wrecking Harvick several times on purpose in 2003. He also wrecked Stewart like three times and whined like a ***** when Stewart got him back, same story with Gordon. Let's not forget Matt taking out his own teammate either.

Kenseth has a history of dirty driving. I'm glad to see he's FINALLY getting what's been a long time coming to him.

That said, Vickers should've been parked for the remainder of the race.
 
"Well yeah, obviously it is retaliation for retaliation I guess," said Kenseth, who finished 34th in the race but remains sixth in the points. "I was out of brakes and I was up on everybody and I saw him coming and I lifted at least 10 car lengths before where I would normally lift and he drove in there at 165 miles per hour and cleaned us out.

I really don't care for either driver, I've underlined kenseths own words.
Anyone else think his lifting early might have contributed to the incident and it caught vickers off guard?
 
Does anyone really care? MK and BV are also-rans in 2011. Let them duke it out. As long as their little spat doen't involve Tony or Carl, I don't give a hot flying frak.
 
I really don't care for either driver, I've underlined kenseths own words.
Anyone else think his lifting early might have contributed to the incident and it caught vickers off guard?

I was thinking that maybe Vickers thought Matt was brake checking him to give him a hard time. But I can't forget what Brian said after MV.

Does anyone really care? MK and BV are also-rans in 2011. Let them duke it out. As long as their little spat doen't involve Tony or Carl, I don't give a hot flying frak.

:beerbang:

PeeWee should learn to pick his targets better.
 
I'm going to send Vickers an e-mail saying Edwards is going to take him out at Homestead. ;)
 
Matt has taken a small shot at Vickers on Twitter(sorry if this was already posted)

Congrats @kaseykahne way to show everyone what that equipment is capable of!
 
Matt has taken a small shot at Vickers on Twitter(sorry if this was already posted)

Congrats @kaseykahne way to show everyone what that equipment is capable of!

Vickers has shown it a few times this year -- running top ten and marching before being wrecked out by Kenseth on several occasions this year.
 
NASCAR should just park all drivers, since all drivers have taken someone out at one time or another. Right? :sarcasm:
 
Matt has taken a small shot at Vickers on Twitter(sorry if this was already posted)

Congrats @kaseykahne way to show everyone what that equipment is capable of!

While it is a small shot @ Vickers it's the truth. It's all about what you've done, not what you may have done if circumstances were different. Vickers hasn't done anything as of late to help himself out for a ride next season and beyond. Martinsville was a nightmare weekend for him in most people's eyes. He's been in the news lately for all of the wrong reasons while his teammate is producing results.
 
I really think Vickers knows his time in good cup equiptment is over. He has had more chances than most drivers ever get. First Hendrick, then Red Bull. I see him going to NW next year and trying for a championship there before he gets another real chance in Cup.
 
With the number of CUP drivers who are out of a job, the CUP Series may end up being a feeder series for K&N!
 
Not to mention the talent now that's destined for Cup: Stenhouse, the Dillon brothers, Allgaier.

I don't see it with Justin. He runs into a lot of people. He has Vickernism so sure. And the little sh!t can't handle being outshined by his teammates. We all remember how he took Sorenson out of the championship. Last year, when Brad was running for a championship and got probation for getting wrecked by Carl, Justin raced him like an ass. I think it was Texas where Brad had the fastest car, but a bad pitstop put him in 8th behind Justin. The little **** changed lanes and blocked him for 9 laps while he let 3 or 4 other guys go by. Finally, his CC told him to knock it off, but with just 10 to go it was too late for Brad to catch the leader.
 
I don't see it with Justin. He runs into a lot of people. He has Vickernism so sure. And the little sh!t can't handle being outshined by his teammates. We all remember how he took Sorenson out of the championship. Last year, when Brad was running for a championship and got probation for getting wrecked by Carl, Justin raced him like an ass. I think it was Texas where Brad had the fastest car, but a bad pitstop put him in 8th behind Justin. The little **** changed lanes and blocked him for 9 laps while he let 3 or 4 other guys go by. Finally, his CC told him to knock it off, but with just 10 to go it was too late for Brad to catch the leader.


Yeah I've lost a lot of respect for Justin since he took Sorenson out for no reason.
 
I don't see it with Justin. He runs into a lot of people. He has Vickernism so sure. And the little sh!t can't handle being outshined by his teammates. We all remember how he took Sorenson out of the championship. Last year, when Brad was running for a championship and got probation for getting wrecked by Carl, Justin raced him like an ass. I think it was Texas where Brad had the fastest car, but a bad pitstop put him in 8th behind Justin. The little **** changed lanes and blocked him for 9 laps while he let 3 or 4 other guys go by. Finally, his CC told him to knock it off, but with just 10 to go it was too late for Brad to catch the leader.

The bias of a Brad fan. I like Brad -- but you're forgetting some history. Before they were teammates, Brad wrecked Allgaier out almost every week back in 2009. I could think of five races that Keselowski intentionally wrecked Allgaier out of a sure thing top-five finish. No different than Kenseth dumping Vickers many times, Carl dumping Brad or Kyle dumping Hornaday.
 
The bias of a Brad fan. I like Brad -- but you're forgetting some history. Before they were teammates, Brad wrecked Allgaier out almost every week back in 2009. I could think of five races that Keselowski intentionally wrecked Allgaier out of a sure thing top-five finish. No different than Kenseth dumping Vickers many times, Carl dumping Brad or Kyle dumping Hornaday.

You say some outlandish things Andy, so lets see you back this one up. "I could think of five races that Keselowski intentionally wrecked Allgaier out of a sure thing top-five finish. "

So, list the races.

I NEVER saw Kez INTENTIONALLY wreck Justin. I never even heard Justin say that.

So, list the races that you said you remember Brad INTENTIONALLY wrecking Justin.
 
You say some outlandish things Andy, so lets see you back this one up. "I could think of five races that Keselowski intentionally wrecked Allgaier out of a sure thing top-five finish. "

So, list the races.



So, list the races that you said you remember Brad INTENTIONALLY wrecking Justin.

Well, there's the famous 2009 Food City 250 where Keselowski took him out. If you watch the replay five times real fast through Allgaier glasses, well, there you have it.
 
Well, there's the famous 2009 Food City 250 where Keselowski took him out. If you watch the replay five times real fast through Allgaier glasses, well, there you have it.

Yeah, I figure that and the Kroger 250 will be all Andy boy can come up with. Problem is, neither one works. At Bristol, they just touch, but Justin gets his tire cut. All Brads fault, but typical contact at Bristol.

The Kroger 250 is clearly a case of 2 guys going for the same hole, but it's Justin who moves down and makes contact with Brad, who backs off as fast as can be expected.

Brad felt bad about Bristol, and even said he let Justin run all over him to win the Turf builder 300 in 2010 to make up for it. Any other driver would have turned or bumped Justin after the move he made on the restart.
 
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