Nascar drug list should be public -- merged with other thread

[mike honcho]

Experts says NASCAR drug list should be public: A prominent authority on drug testing says the indefinite suspension of Sprint Cup driver Jeremy Mayfield further enhances his belief that the sport needs to provide a public list of banned substances to protect itself legally. Mayfield on Saturday became the first Sprint Cup driver suspended for violating the substance abuse policy. Sources close to the situation said Mayfield claims he took Claritin D, an over-the-counter allergy drug that contains pseudoephedrine, a substance banned by most sports. Mayfield said in a prepared statement that the positive test was the result of combining a prescribed and over-the-counter drug, a possiblity the doctor who runs NASCAR's drug testing policy denied was plausible. "A combination of an over-the-counter drug taken with a prescription drug could not cause the positive that we took action on," Dr. David Black of the Tennessee-based Aegis Labs said. But what concerns Dr. Charles Yesalis, a Penn State professor who has testified before Congress on performance-enhancing drugs and spent 25 years researching drug testing, is that drivers are not provided a list of banned substances. The NFL, NBA, MLB PGA Tour and NCAA each make available public lists in their drug testing policies. "That alone to me is ludicrous," Yesalis said Monday. "That just kind of violates your sense of fair play. It never would fly in MLB or the NFL because they have a union. "The drivers don't have a union, but if somebody did that to me I'd go get myself a nasty lawyer. What if somebody in management or ownership doesn't like you? They can use that as a weapon against you." Black said the lack of a list makes the program stronger because it gives the governing body more flexibility. Yesalis doesn't disagree that the findings of the test are legitimate. He, too, never has come across a positive test caused by the use of Claritin D, although "if somebody doubled or tripled the dose I wouldn't want to be next to them at 190 miles per hour going into the first turn at Darlington." But for legal reasons he believes NASCAR needs to be more up front with what they are looking for. Because his is not considered an appealable offense, legal action could be Mayfield's only recourse if he chooses to fight the suspension. Sources close to the situation said that hasn't been determined yet.(ESPN)(5-11-2009) Comment here

 

[wilson89]

Experts says NASCAR drug list should be public: A prominent authority on drug testing says the indefinite suspension of Sprint Cup driver Jeremy Mayfield further enhances his belief that the sport needs to provide a public list of banned substances to protect itself legally. Mayfield on Saturday became the first Sprint Cup driver suspended for violating the substance abuse policy. Sources close to the situation said Mayfield claims he took Claritin D, an over-the-counter allergy drug that contains pseudoephedrine, a substance banned by most sports. Mayfield said in a prepared statement that the positive test was the result of combining a prescribed and over-the-counter drug, a possiblity the doctor who runs NASCAR's drug testing policy denied was plausible. "A combination of an over-the-counter drug taken with a prescription drug could not cause the positive that we took action on," Dr. David Black of the Tennessee-based Aegis Labs said. But what concerns Dr. Charles Yesalis, a Penn State professor who has testified before Congress on performance-enhancing drugs and spent 25 years researching drug testing, is that drivers are not provided a list of banned substances. The NFL, NBA, MLB PGA Tour and NCAA each make available public lists in their drug testing policies. "That alone to me is ludicrous," Yesalis said Monday. "That just kind of violates your sense of fair play. It never would fly in MLB or the NFL because they have a union. "The drivers don't have a union, but if somebody did that to me I'd go get myself a nasty lawyer. What if somebody in management or ownership doesn't like you? They can use that as a weapon against you." Black said the lack of a list makes the program stronger because it gives the governing body more flexibility. Yesalis doesn't disagree that the findings of the test are legitimate. He, too, never has come across a positive test caused by the use of Claritin D, although "if somebody doubled or tripled the dose I wouldn't want to be next to them at 190 miles per hour going into the first turn at Darlington." But for legal reasons he believes NASCAR needs to be more up front with what they are looking for. Because his is not considered an appealable offense, legal action could be Mayfield's only recourse if he chooses to fight the suspension. Sources close to the situation said that hasn't been determined yet.(ESPN)(5-11-2009) Comment here

Isnt that hypocritical they let Claritin sponsor Carl Edwards car but they suspend a driver who takes it.

When it comes to a list i belive they should tell each orginization a list of banned substances, or hire a trainer for differant teams and when a driver is purscribed something new they should have to tell there trainer who would know which medicine is alright and which ones they feel arent.

I think they should have 2 levels of failed substance abuse. Make level one for over the counter medicine and level two for illegal drugs more serious such as cocain, heroin, etc.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

The following is the list of substances that NASCAR checks for. While this list is stated that it is for the NASCAR crews, I don't know what the difference would be for the drivers.


Among the substances NASCAR crews must be tested for are:
- Seven different amphetamines, including methamphetamine and PMA, a synthetic psychostimulant and hallucinogen.
- Three drugs classified under ephedrine.
- 13 different narcotics, including codeine and morphine.
- Ten different benzodiazepines and barbituates.
- Marijuana, cocaine, zolpidem, nitrites, chromates and drugs that can increase specific gravity.
(the crews include - pit crew members, including "over-the-wall" crew members, the crew chief, car chief, team members responsible for tires, fuel and pit crew operation, spotters and race-day support personnel that includes engineers, engine tuners, shock specialists, chassis specialists and tire specialists).

# NASCAR Substance Abuse Policy
# Competitors are asked to take a drug test if there is "reasonable suspicion."
# Anyone who obtains any kind of NASCAR license must sign an "authorization for testing and release" waiver each season.
# NASCAR can ask for samples of urine, blood, saliva, hair or breath tests if "reasonable suspicion" of drug use has been established.
# A number of NASCAR officials are trained to take and seal samples for testing, and all are versed in detecting signs of impairment.
# NASCAR encourages "whistle blowing" among its competitors to help police its substance abuse policy.
# NASCAR reserves the right to suspend a competitor based on a conviction for driving a passenger vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or a drug-related conviction.
# Competitors and officials are prohibited from consuming alcohol prior to or during a race.
# If a person fails a drug test and wants to return to racing, he or she must submit to a series of spot testing. The person being tested must pay for the examinations.
# If an individual is reinstated, NASCAR reserves the right to randomly test that individual.
# NASCAR does not recommend specific rehabilitation programs but strongly encourages self-help and treatment for those afflicted with a drug problem or alcohol abuse.

 

[SlowNeasy]

interesting dpkimmel2001, i'm surprised there's no mention of steroids. in fact the whole list seems very vague. i think nascar would be wise to make their drug policy more specific like other sports.

 

[kelloggs5TLfan]

interesting dpkimmel2001, i'm surprised there's no mention of steroids. in fact the whole list seems very vague. i think nascar would be wise to make their drug policy more specific like other sports.

Then they would lose some of their control. (gray area needed) I don't think they would like that.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

interesting dpkimmel2001, i'm surprised there's no mention of steroids. in fact the whole list seems very vague. i think nascar would be wise to make their drug policy more specific like other sports.

In looking at that list, I'd venture to guess that that list is more of a summary of the actual list. This list was released when NASCAR first instituted the testing. I think it was released for the benefit of the media, not the teams. Maybe the 'roids' are only on the drivers list of banned substances?

Then they would lose some of their control. (gray area needed) I don't think they would like that.

Kinda like the NASCAR Rule Book, perhaps? Every drug offense can be listed under 12-4-A, (Actions detrimental to stock car racing.)

 

[Eagle1]

I watched both NASCAR Now and TWIN yesterday, it doesn't appear to be that much gray area according to the drivers and everyone EXCEPT Ed Hinton like the system in place.
According to the drivers if you declare what you're taking over the counter such as Claritan D you don't run into problems.

So if Jeremy was taking a prescription he's supposed to be declaring it to the NASCAR Dr. and had he declared what he was taking over the counter there would be no problem if what he's saying is the truth.
It appeared to me the drivers interviewed were NOT buying this excuse Jeremy is trying to feed the press.

It also appears that every week a bunch of personal are tested (which we don't hear about, as we don't really need to) and not a lot of guys have been caught so IMHO it does not appear to "iffy" to me.

Kevin Harvick said they have all been tested several times since Daytona.

My personal opinion is the fans DO NOT have a right to know, or a need to know exactly how the testing process works as long as all the competitors do.


Funny how nothing NASCAR does is right with many of you,
fACT IS, NASCAR does not do the drug testing, they have hired a completely impartial drug testing agency that performs the same tests for many other organizations to do this so it couldn't be accused of imporprietis yet all you black helecpter pilots continue anyway.

 

[Digger]

Do you guys really believe NASCAR suspended Mayfield indefinitely for Claritan?

 

[Joniki]

I watched both NASCAR Now and TWIN yesterday, it doesn't appear to be that much gray area according to the drivers and everyone EXCEPT Ed Hinton like the system in place.
According to the drivers if you declare what you're taking over the counter such as Claritan D you don't run into problems.

So if Jeremy was taking a prescription he's supposed to be declaring it to the NASCAR Dr. and had he declared what he was taking over the counter there would be no problem if what he's saying is the truth.
It appeared to me the drivers interviewed were NOT buying this excuse Jeremy is trying to feed the press.

It also appears that every week a bunch of personal are tested (which we don't hear about, as we don't really need to) and not a lot of guys have been caught so IMHO it does not appear to "iffy" to me.

Kevin Harvick said they have all been tested several times since Daytona.

My personal opinion is the fans DO NOT have a right to know, or a need to know exactly how the testing process works as long as all the competitors do.


Funny how nothing NASCAR does is right with many of you,
fACT IS, NASCAR does not do the drug testing, they have hired a completely impartial drug testing agency that performs the same tests for many other organizations to do this so it couldn't be accused of imporprietis yet all you black helecpter pilots continue anyway.

Well said!

Jeremy had the opportunity to declare what he was taking and chose not to. I have the same option every time I am drug screened but there are levels in place that I cannot exceed. Ephedrine is one of them. I can take a Claritan a day and not have any problems. If I take twelve I will most likely lose my job.

 

[Eagle1]

NASCAR's policy tests for wider array of substances

Searches for drugs that could affect driving performance

Black's firm has no shortage of experience. Black joined Vanderbilt University in 1986 to establish a doping laboratory to test athletes for performance-enhancing drugs, and while there helped the NFL set up its first testing program for anabolic steroids. In the years since, he's also worked with sports clients ranging from NCAA Division I colleges, to the Major League Baseball Players Association, to the IndyCar Series. His relationship with NASCAR began in 1988, shortly before he left Vanderbilt to form Aegis, when former series executive Les Richter approached him at the NFL's recommendation about setting up a drug-testing program.
That program was based on probable case until this year, when NASCAR implemented a random testing policy for the first time. Other than that, Black said, little has changed. "This program, although it's been expanded, is not new," he said. "We've had a long history with this program."

READ THE COMPLETE STORY

http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/headlines/cup/05/12/jmayfield.dblack.drug.testing/index.html

 

[barelypure]

IMO, its not that their drug list should be made public but that their drug list should be the same as all the other sports. All sports should have the exact same list. If a drug isn't on the list then it goes before each sports ruling board and the majority vote wins on whether the drug is on the list or not. That way everyone knows.

 

[Digger]

IMO, its not that their drug list should be made public but that their drug list should be the same as all the other sports. All sports should have the exact same list. If a drug isn't on the list then it goes before each sports ruling board and the majority vote wins on whether the drug is on the list or not. That way everyone knows.

The teams all know what's legal and not legal.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

NASCAR has a safety related issue that other sports don't have. It's not just performance enhancing substances. They cannot be exactly the same nor do they need to be. One sport has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

 

[TexasRaceLady]

IMO, its not that their drug list should be made public but that their drug list should be the same as all the other sports. All sports should have the exact same list. If a drug isn't on the list then it goes before each sports ruling board and the majority vote wins on whether the drug is on the list or not. That way everyone knows.

There's the catch --- NASCAR is the ruling board. Other sports have player unions that have a say in the drug list.

I'll go hunting, but I read this AM that even medication for heart arrhythmia can be "performance enhancing" in motor sports because it controls tremors and fine motor skills.

 

[SST55]

Na$car will never publish a full and complete list of banned substances. They'll alway want a gray area so they can use their favorite expression "Actions detrimental......"

 

[TexasRaceLady]

Found it --- this is Dr. Black speaking.

"In other sports, the issue is typically one of performance enhancement. But, of course, in NASCAR the issue is safety. With a focus on safety, that requires that we test for many other drugs that are not included in other sports programs, because in other sports people are trying to enhance performance. Here, we're worried about drugs that would minimize performance. So you have a lot of drugs that are not normally included in other drug-testing programs," said Black, whose team randomly selects testing participants and collects the samples each week.

"The concerns are considerably different than other sports. We are very conscious about the effects of drugs on driving performance. It's really a zero-tolerance program that is looking for drugs with greater sensitivity. We're looking for a much broader listing of drugs that could affect the driving."

As an example, Black cites beta blockers, which are commonly used to treat cardiac issues such as arrhythmia. In other sports, "you would never test for beta blockers," Black said. But since beta blockers control tremor and fine motor coordination -- the affects of which can be magnified in a vehicle traveling at high speeds -- drivers are tested for them. Competitors are screened for other drugs, such as over-the-counter and prospection medications, for the same reason.

"It's a big, expanded profile of drugs, and also the testing is done at very low testing limits because of a safety concern," Black said. "We're looking for low concentrations of drugs as well as heavy use of drugs."

http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/headlines/cup/05/12/jmayfield.dblack.drug.testing/index.html

 

[Eagle1]

Isn't that the exact same article I posted on the other page?

It also states though that "IF" a driver has a need for these drugs that can be verified they can use it and not be punished. They just need to keep NASCAR's DR. Black informed and provide proof. It is intended to stop abuse, not keep people from the needed medication.

It is ridiculas to even consider that NASCAR can only test for the same drugs listed in other sports,(stick and ball as mentioned) just shows how little grasp you really have to the effect of drugs. Now should they share the same list as other motorsports sanctioning bodies have? That would be a lot more acceptable as the requirements should be the same.

The question is, how do you know they don't? The other autoracing sanctioning bodies also do drug testing, can you get me a list of what's on there banned lists.

Na$car will never publish a full and complete list of banned substances. They'll alway want a gray area so they can use their favorite expression "Actions detrimental......"

That's just pure BS. They hire a totally independent company that provides the same services to may other organizations including other autoracing organizations and yet you still accuse them of working in the grey area? Whatever, if the truth slapped you side the head you probly wouldn't admit it if it didn't back up your conspiracy theories.

 

[Mopardh9]

interesting dpkimmel2001, i'm surprised there's no mention of steroids. in fact the whole list seems very vague. i think nascar would be wise to make their drug policy more specific like other sports.

Yeh but that is the point ....when has Nascar ever been specific?

 

[SST55]

Interesting read.

http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2009/05/11/hey-nascar-we-need-a-banned-substances-list/

 

[kelloggs5TLfan]

Interesting read.

http://www.thenascarinsiders.com/2009/05/11/hey-nascar-we-need-a-banned-substances-list/

It is imperative that NASCAR publishes a detailed list for both drivers and crew members, and gives us a way to find out what we can and can’t take. If they need help, look at the NFL. They’ve got a hotline that can be called by players if they aren’t sure if something is legal or illegal.

Unfortunately, acting as they normally do, I don’t foresee NASCAR changing their policy and providing us with detailed lists for drivers and crew members. But hopefully somebody important happens to read this post, and maybe some pressure from the fans and the media will force NASCAR into giving these lists.

The owners, drivers, and team members do need a detailed list.
You would have to double check to make sure it matches Nascars's and Dr. Black's list.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

We can all sit here and debate this all we want. The fact remains that Jeremy Mayfield has been suspended for a substance abuse violation. The substance is on NASCAR's list of banned substances. The organization that performs the testing for NASCAR knows what the list is. I find it impossible to believe that a list of banned substances had not been distributed to the teams. If that were the case, we'd have heard an outcry from drivers about this before now. A 'red flag' popped up when they tested his sample. Whether he's taken some kind of over the counter medication to the extreme or partaken in recreation drugs, it really doesn't matter. If it were to turn out that it was an over the counter medication that he didn't declare in advance to NASCAR, he's still at fault. NASCAR doesn't owe you, me, or the media a published list of the banned substances nor do they owe anyone other than Jeremy Mayfield a detailed explanation as to what the results are.

 

[Digger]

We can all sit here and debate this all we want. The fact remains that Jeremy Mayfield has been suspended for a substance abuse violation. The substance is on NASCAR's list of banned substances. The organization that performs the testing for NASCAR knows what the list is. I find it impossible to believe that a list of banned substances had not been distributed to the teams. If that were the case, we'd have heard an outcry from drivers about this before now. A 'red flag' popped up when they tested his sample. Whether he's taken some kind of over the counter medication to the extreme or partaken in recreation drugs, it really doesn't matter. If it were to turn out that it was an over the counter medication that he didn't declare in advance to NASCAR, he's still at fault. NASCAR doesn't owe you, me, or the media a published list of the banned substances nor do they owe anyone other than Jeremy Mayfield a detailed explanation as to what the results are.

I remember after Junyer turned in to Kentucky Fried Junyer at Sonoma, John Andretti had to race his car because Junyer's pain medicene was on the substance abuse list. Junyer knew that.

 

[Newracefan]

Pain meds like Percocet or morphine are no brainers. The D in Claritin D not so much, again he still should have known; list or no list. Lists provide loopholes, words like "AMONG the drugs we test for" eliminate loopholes which give all the power to Nascar. If the drivers and teams are OK with that then so am I, I just hope there is also a way for those who get caught because of the generalities can get their life back.

Also lists can never be current, there are always new drugs on the market. Someone could get caught because the drug isn't on the list yet because it's components are part of the banned substances and someone else can use a med not for it's intended purpose because it hasn't made the list yet and possibly avoid getting in trouble. There can be no grey area just black and white, ie banned or not banned

 

[PettyBlue]

Baseball has just had to make a very public disciplining of one of its most high profile stars. What better time for NASCAR to make a splash and say "me too" by hyping a press conference to ban some of its participants? Typical of them to single out a marginal driver as a scapegoat, though.

 

[Eagle1]

We can all sit here and debate this all we want. The fact remains that Jeremy Mayfield has been suspended for a substance abuse violation. The substance is on NASCAR's list of banned substances. The organization that performs the testing for NASCAR knows what the list is. I find it impossible to believe that a list of banned substances had not been distributed to the teams. If that were the case, we'd have heard an outcry from drivers about this before now. A 'red flag' popped up when they tested his sample. Whether he's taken some kind of over the counter medication to the extreme or partaken in recreation drugs, it really doesn't matter. If it were to turn out that it was an over the counter medication that he didn't declare in advance to NASCAR, he's still at fault. NASCAR doesn't owe you, me, or the media a published list of the banned substances nor do they owe anyone other than Jeremy Mayfield a detailed explanation as to what the results are.

Very good, this is what I was trying to say, you just said it much better. The fact is we have NOT heard an outcry from team owners, crew members or drivers, just the opposite praising the new system.

Only people hollering for blood are the media and some fans, and in reality the do not have the need to know.

BTW, anyone know where to find the banned drug list for the other racing organizations?

 

[carsntunes]

Agreed. It could be Viagra for all we know, but its none of our business. I just hope that it wasn't illegal, that it was just a goof on someone's part. I don't really care for Jeremy, but I don't wish any unnecessary media scrutiny on him.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

Baseball has just had to make a very public disciplining of one of its most high profile stars. What better time for NASCAR to make a splash and say "me too" by hyping a press conference to ban some of its participants? Typical of them to single out a marginal driver as a scapegoat, though.

Ya, that makes sense! Let's have one of our drivers fail a drug test so that we can make headlines.

 

[Joniki]

Baseball has just had to make a very public disciplining of one of its most high profile stars. What better time for NASCAR to make a splash and say "me too" by hyping a press conference to ban some of its participants? Typical of them to single out a marginal driver as a scapegoat, though.

And just maybe he was a "marginal driver" because he was DWI. The only way Jeremy could have saved face in my eyes would have been to come out early and call a shovel a shovel. Something like "I took Claritan and Darvocet and apparently my levels exceeded the allowed levels". Or better yet, he should have declared what he was taking before the test...

 

[dpkimmel2001]

Or better yet, he should have declared what he was taking before the test...

Assuming that the results were due to some 'over the counter' med, I agree. I've not read or heard anyone from NASCAR or the testing organization state what triggered the unacceptable results. And, you know what they say when you assume.

 

[Eagle1]

Very interesting interview by Kevin Harvick might explain better how it works

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4164900

 

[dpkimmel2001]

Very interesting interview by Kevin Harvick might explain better how it works

Thanks for the link. IMO that clip answers many questions that were on this board and what I've seen and read in the media. One of them being that there is a list and that list is in the 'Drivers Agreement' that each driver signs with NASCAR. According to Harvick, the list is pretty much 'cut & dry' on how the testing works and what substances are legal and what are not.

 

[Digger]

Latest on the suspension of Jeremy Mayfield.

Report: Mayfield suspension not for steroids

<snip>

Mayfield was first told on May 5 that he had failed a random drug test and was asked to explain why he might have tested positive, according to an outline of NASCAR's procedures provided by Black, CEO of Aegis Sciences Corp. in Nashville, Tenn., which runs the testing program.

After Aegis investigated Mayfield's explanation and rejected it, Black's office told NASCAR officials on May 7 about the positive test.


<snip>


"Certainly we were in contact with Jeremy that day, and there was no physical reason to believe he couldn't perform," NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said. "Dr. Black's team had a rush order to get us the results. They literally worked through the night so we would know the "B" sample before Saturday night's race."

<snip>

"The reason we don't reveal the substance is because our policy says the misuse or abuse of any substance is a violation," Poston said. "The substance is irrelevant. What's important is that a drug, under a positive test, a drug has been misused or abused."

NASCAR does have the right to reveal the drug because compliance with its testing program does not fall under the guidelines of the federal HIPPA laws, Black said.

"We could make it public," he said. "But the issue up to this point has been to respect the individual's privacy."

 

[SST55]

If I was in his shoes I'd ask for a copy of the report and release it to the press. That's if he doesn't have one already. I'd also pay to have a second lab retest the samples and release that report too. End the speculation and rumor.

Unless of course he knows he took something he shouldn't have. In that case bye-bye.

One thing I've learned is that when someone says it's impossible, as Dr Black said, there's someone else ready to dispute those findings.

 

[barelypure]

If I was in his shoes I'd ask for a copy of the report and release it to the press. That's if he doesn't have one already. I'd also pay to have a second lab retest the samples and release that report too. End the speculation and rumor.

Unless of course he knows he took something he shouldn't have. In that case bye-bye.

One thing I've learned is that when someone says it's impossible, as Dr Black said, there's someone else ready to dispute those findings.

That's impossible...

I agree. Jeremy should release the findings.

 

[Eagle1]

And there was a real reason this couldn't be discussed in the same thread we were discussing it?

One thing I've learned is that when someone says it's impossible, as Dr Black said, there's someone else ready to dispute those findings.

Actually if you read what has already been posted there's a second Dr. which was saying NASCAR should produce the Banned list. Even though he was on the other side of the argument he agreed with Dr. Black that in his over 20 years he's never seen a positive reading "IF" what Jeremy's claims were true.

 

[Eagle1]

Yesalis doesn't disagree that the findings of the test are legitimate. He, too, never has come across a positive test caused by the use of Claritin D, although "if somebody doubled or tripled the dose I wouldn't want to be next to them at 190 miles per hour going into the first turn at Darlington."

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4159387

 

[dpkimmel2001]

What is new about any of this?

 

[dragonlady424]

Super!!!!! Kevin, while not my fav, has shown more maturity and common sense to clear this commotion than anyone. Maybe we can now put it to rest and move on to something else? How about this weekend's All-Star Race or something?

 

[Betsy]

I'm thinking the jury has come in already!

If any one of us had failed a drug test and all we had done is allergy medication we would be asking for another test and showing the original test results to all comers..
The fact that he hasn't done anything except hide from the questioners is good enough for me..
Nope! As far as I am concerned he is out for good.. and better for the sport.
Betsy

 

[dpkimmel2001]

I think he'll be back after he does his time.