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#17D500winner
Guest
They could louver the back window opening in such a way that it would slam shut when the car got turned around and/or install more flaps in the roof.
NASCAR reallocating prize money
- Thread starter FenderBumper
- Start date
They could louver the back window opening in such a way that it would slam shut when the car got turned around and/or install more flaps in the roof.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
As long as we're all over the map here, why not remove the rear windows from just the Start and Park cars? 
breatheoflife
Team Owner
All the flaps open because of air getting underneath them. Not sure how you could install a louver that would shut when the car spun around, yet still give you the downforce he's talking about?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Could be, but if the rear window created that much downforce, why do they need the flaps? I was thinking it would act as a brake while air dumps out the side windows.
I need to sleep in another holiday inn express and think about this some more.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
As long as we're all over the map here, why not remove the rear windows from just the Start and Park cars?
ha. Robby says they would start and fly, which would be more exciting than the parking thing.
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Hey we got the internet on little computer thingies and mobile whatzzits and folks in space so surely we can make an automatic emergency rear window closer so FB can have his rear window wish. HURRY UP DAYTONA AAARRRGGGHHH.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Now there's a man who is thinking. Take off the spoiler and rear window, and let the louvers rule once again.
R
robbybee
Guest
BUT... On 1.5 mile and above-sized tracks, NASCAR mandates that a passenger side window be in place.
They do this in order to prevent air from entering the ****pit if/when a car gets turned around.
This helps keep positive air pressure on the TOPSIDE of the car in the event of a spin.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
This!
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
Can you name me a team that knowingly went out to just collect a check? Not saying you are misinformed. I am, because I don't know.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Brian Keselowski for one. He came out and said his S&P cup car would be his NW cars sponsor. I think it's about about $3 million a year in purse money to start and park.
breatheoflife
Team Owner
Nemechek has admitted to it. Any team that shows up with a set of tires, 3 crew members, makes 2 laps in the race and then pulls into the garage when nothing is wrong is a S&P team.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Making Nemechek in the car tells you what they are all about. Qualifying only.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
I like NASCAR is at least doing this. I'd like to see the field cut to 33-35 cars though to eliminate them completely. S&P's aren't racing and are insult to the sport and guys like James Finch who want to compete and race.
Physics 104.....what goes up must come down.....I see we've all landed safely
How are S&Pers hurting Finch exactly?
breatheoflife
Team Owner
Just enough to get a spot to make that last place money.
Greg
2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader
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There are worse drivers in cup
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
breatheoflife
Team Owner
Because thats more money that Finch, someone who runs all race, could be pocketing to help his team grow. He's trying to become competitive, not just get a check. When theres only a $7,000 to $8,000 pay difference between a guy that runs 2 miles and one that runs 500 miles, something is wrong.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
I know what a S&P team is. However I believe most do it so they can eventually race a full race every once in a while. Not to just use Nascar to pay the bills. I agree Nemechek is a little iffy, but at least he is using money to still fund a full Nascar team in another series.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
Again how is a S&Per hurting Finch? Even if you got rid of all S&Pers and the full 43 car field ran full races Finch would still earn the same amount.
breatheoflife
Team Owner
Without the S&P's, you will rarely have a field of 43, so that money can be distributed elsewhere.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
So then Nascar should just lower the field to 38 cars. If they did this there would be no guarantee that the purse money would stay the same. Right now Nascar pays a purse for a 43 car field. Say they lowered the field to 38 cars. Do you honestly think they would keep the purse for 38 cars the same as it is for 43?
See I am at the mind set the S&Pers help teams like James Finch, because that is an automatic cushion of 5-6 positions every week.
breatheoflife
Team Owner
Not necessarily lower the field, no. If you have 43 cars that can run a full race, excellent. I think NASCAR should just mandate a rule that if they start, they have to at least attempt to finish. If they lowered the field, I'm sure what you mentioned would happen.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
See, then I still think they do Finch a favor. Right now if Finch blows an Engine 50 laps in he basically can do no worse than 38th. Say Nascar some how, some way force the S&Pers to run at least 100 laps if not all. Now if Finch blows an engine 50 laps in he probably finishes 42 or 43 with less money in his pocket
breatheoflife
Team Owner
True, but at least this eliminates S&P's and makes it even all the way across the field.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
I know what you are saying. I just think it is funny that we always complain how the big mega teams hurt the small guy. Now it is the even littler guy hurting the small guy.
breatheoflife
Team Owner
The big guys have earned their spot. Let people complain about them all they want. The littler S&P guy will never become what the big guys are doing what they are doing. Guys like Finch? Possibly, someday.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
What about guys like Tommy Baldwin Racing, or Front Row Motorsports? They started, some what are still, as S&Pers. They are working their way out of the whole to build quality race teams. I believe Smoke14 in this thread stated that Childress started as an S&Per. If you kill off the S&Pers, then you basically will kill off any new teams from coming into Nascar. Sponsors want results out of the box, this isn't the 90s where Dan Marino can start a team tomorrow with a new sponsor.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
I did some homework. Nemechek ran (S&Ped) at 31 cup races last year, taking home $2,534,419 in purse money, $81,755 per race. So lets say, guesstimation by me, he put a quarter of that ($633,604) back into his Cup program to continue to S&P. It was probably a bigger number than that, but it easier to follow that way. That leaves him $1,900,815 to put into his NNS program. Joe Nemechek ran the entire NNS series last year and only walked away with $707,128 in purse money, $22,097 per race. So lets say he didn't keep any of the money for himself and put it all back into his NNS program. So his Cup earnings, after 25% deduction for cup program, plus his NNS earnings means he has $2,607,943 to run his full time NNS car. Now this is just based off of track earnings, and doesn't figure in any sponsorship money. However I doubt he gets anywhere near $2,607,943 from sponsors. Now taking from this 2011 article I found here: http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2011/04/06/nationwide-costs-economy.html It costs, by 2011 standards, $5.5-6.5 million to run a competitive top 20 NNS team. By 2011 standards Nemechek is making less than half of that to put into his NNS program.
breatheoflife
Team Owner
Back and support from other teams helped them, not being start and parkers. The times have changed since Childress was a S&Per. That further proves my point. Childress didn't just start and park. He at least attempted to run the entire race, unlike the ones of today. You have teams that come up from the Nationwide Series and find success. Killing off S&P isn't going to kill off new teams from forming in NASCAR.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
I am still waiting for someone to name a driver/team who S&P and just take home the paycheck. I think it has been proven more often than not that the S&Pers are putting the money back into their teams to either fund full cup races down the way, or to fund their NNS team. Much like Baldwin and Front Row.
breatheoflife
Team Owner
That doesn't take away from the fact that they are just taking money away from teams that are trying to compete on a week in and week out. Rick Hendrick didn't have to start as a S&P. What did he do? Started at the bottom, and worked his way up. Same as Jack Roush. Penske? He had money and backing already to start a team. Joe Gibbs? He had money and backing already to start a team. Richard Chilress? He was hit and miss his first few years of racing. He didn't run ever race. Just a select few. Then in 1976 he decided he was going to quit clowing around and actually run a full year. Minimal success. When did he become successful? When he hired Dale Sr. in '81 and Dale brought his Wrangler sponsorship with him, who threw their money at Childress. That's why Childress started winning, not because of money he earned during racing in the years before. Point is, you aren't going to become a success in any level of NASCAR by running 2 laps a race and then parking it.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
This is a horrible move. It just advances the need to have more money to compete in Cup. Like Jeffery said, there are quite a few teams that started out as "Start and Park" teams that now run the full race (or attempt to) every week. Furniture Row, Front Row, Tommy Baldwin all have done their fair share of Start and Park. BK Racing did quite a bit as well. FAS Lane racing was a Start and Park team last year and it looks like they're going to run the whole season, without starting and parking, this year.
I just don't see how Start and Park hurts anyone. I mean, would they rather force the guys to stay on the track and race until their car breaks down in the middle of the track and causes a crash?
I just don't see how Start and Park hurts anyone. I mean, would they rather force the guys to stay on the track and race until their car breaks down in the middle of the track and causes a crash?
Tennessee Racing
Formerly Stewart Fan
Great decision.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Not only that , but I recall Childress once at Homestead starting and parking a couple extra cars when Dale Earnhardt needed to finish 40th or better to win the championship. It was just precautionary in case he had mechanical troubles , but I didn't hear anybody whineing about start and parks back in the day.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I think that you may be thing of Atlanta. Homestead has only been on the schedule since 1999. Earnhardts's last Championship was in 1994. I think you are thinking of his Championship in 1993 when Neil Bonnett started for Childress and finished in last place. He was Earnhardt's insurance policy that year.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Thanks , I'm not the smartest stump in the clearcut.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
M
MOEJOE
Guest
Smartest Stump? My brain may have to chew on that for a while.Thanks , I'm not the smartest stump in the clearcut.
Giver Upper, eh? You call yourself a Brad K fan.I did, but you keep adding new conditions, so I gave up.