Nascar should listen

[KodiakRusty89]

I love watching old races on Youtube! Something about the races from '87-'93 or so that really catch my attention! I have an absurd memory so anything from about '89 on I can recall on the dime basically. The '92 Winston will always be etched in my mind. I attended the Nazareth Busch every year which was held the same weekend as the Winston back then. That being the first Winston night race meant the Cup guys didn't come up to PA the next day.

I'm definitely a "younger" NASCAR fan that really remembers the sport in its heyday and how it evolved. The first time I went to Dover (1990) it was asphalt and had about 60k seats. Five years later it was concrete and had a 110k seats. Pocono back in the day had steel boiler plate. Nearly every time there was an accident there would be lengthy delay.

My dad was a huge Ford guy too because of Elliott. He bought an '88 Tbird the day of the Fog Bowl because he wanted to have one like Elliott drove to a title. He did this knowing they were being redesigned for 1989. The '88 was and always will be a better look imo...

 

[HoneyBadger]

In a hypothetical return to a full-season championship, I'd be fine with bigger bonuses for winn ing. I think if BF had simply changed that after Kenseth's snoozer of a championship, there would have been far less consternation.

They didn't change the system because of Kenseth's championship. They did it to compete with the NFL and to make the summer more competitive. It failed on both counts.

The new playoff is the better format.

 

[Team Penske]

I can't believe you like to see the season champion crowned because he crossed the finish line first of 4 cars. Why not just draw numbers for the 4 cars and run one race?

 

[ToyYoda]

I can't believe you like to see the season champion crowned because he crossed the finish line first of 4 cars. Why not just draw numbers for the 4 cars and run one race?

That's why I thought the '04-'13 versions were better. Kept the championship from being a runaway like it was most years pre-chase, but wasn't as random as the current format.

 

[Matthew2470]

The main takeaway from that article for me was that the lodging costs have crippled attendance. Also that no matter what NASCAR does there are people that won't be happy.

 

[Greg]

NASCAR wants to appear to be fan-centric. Problem is you will never please everyone with this approach. It is time for them to be more like the NFL in this respect. The NFL doesn't care what you think. Hell, they banned end zone celebrations--the equivalent of a burn out after a NASCAR win. The plus side of this approach is consistency in product. NASCAR has tried to please everybody and in so doing, pleased nobody. I might be a little different.....It is a car with wheels and a motor. I'm interested, and nobody can screw that up.

^This

 

[Matthew2470]

Has NASCAR ever explained why they started mandating the use of a splitter? Where did that idea originally come from? They ran it in trucks then required it for cup with the advent of the COT. I've always thought that splitters were such an oddity.

And does anyone remember how poorly the COT was received by drivers and fans? I remember lots of fans drift away from the sport after that. It didn't help Dale Jr was in a huge drought and DEI folded in the early days of the COT.

 

[ted@economy]

No it wasn't--kind of. What has changed is that Dads are so freakin' busy trying to make mortgage in this day that they don't have the time to share their passions with their kids. It is all anybody can do to make ends meet. We have failed at passing on the love of the car to this generation, and it may never come back. Anytime something skips a generation, it's hard to get it back because it is replaced by something else. I am not any better than anybody else, but I can tell you this about my 18 year old: 1) He loves his 214,000 mile Toyota RAV4 which I bought when he was 3, 2) He loves NASCAR, and if he can't be on the couch watching it with me, he is texting his ass off to me during the race talking strategy, speed, etc. (he freaking kills the data plan every month watching remotely--and I am good with it), and 4) He will never, ever consider buying/driving anything other than a Toyota. I suspect that back in the day when the world wasn't spinning so quickly, tons of Chevy, Ford, and Dodge dads did the same thing. It will be a long, long road back.

Great story Revman

 

[29-4]

They didn't change the system because of Kenseth's championship. They did it to compete with the NFL and to make the summer more competitive. It failed on both counts.

The new playoff is the better format.

I disagree. There were tons of complaints about Kenseth winning the championship before the final race with just a single win. I'm sure competing with NFL had something to do with it too, but it's not one or the other.

 

[ted@economy]

NASCAR wants to appear to be fan-centric. Problem is you will never please everyone with this approach. It is time for them to be more like the NFL in this respect. The NFL doesn't care what you think. Hell, they banned end zone celebrations--the equivalent of a burn out after a NASCAR win. The plus side of this approach is consistency in product. NASCAR has tried to please everybody and in so doing, pleased nobody. I might be a little different.....It is a car with wheels and a motor. I'm interested, and nobody can screw that up.

It's true . There is no other sport in the world that changes it's rules week to week in hopes of attracting fans who really don't give a crap . The way to earn their respect is to say 'This is what we are . Take it or leave it. '. That's a sport folks can respect.

 

[4tires17gals]

Maybe a little more publicity like golden Correll' top 10 free dinner

 

[ToyYoda]

Maybe a little more publicity like golden Correll' top 10 free dinner

Harvick's free bloomin' onion for a Top 10 ain't enough?

 

[RowdyBusch]

But in chasing a new audience — and a demographic beyond its traditional base — NASCAR’s old school fans felt spurned. When the trendiness wore off and casual viewers moved on to the next hot thing, some of NASCAR’s core followers had left, too.

Changes such as scrapping the season-long points system for a playoff, implementing the Car of Tomorrow, adding gimmicks (the free pass, green-white-checkered finishes and double-file restarts) and moving several races from the South turned out to be anathema to some longtime fans.

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

 

[Yogisd1]

The only thing consistent about NASCAR is it's inconsistency. Bobw you hit the nail on the head. The finish of last night's Xfinity race was a great example of that. When it takes almost ten minuets to figure out who won the race, that is not exciting. If they had thrown the yellow when they should have, there wouldn't have been a problem. The chase... well we don't need to go over that again. Points racing, well there are times when you have to make the best, with what you have. What I hate seeing, is half a car, held together with baleing wire, and duct tape, acting like a moving road block. They need to stop giving points for finishing twenty fifth on down. There would not be any half cars on the track trying to pick up two points. Instead of two points per position, top to bottom, adjust the points so better finishes, are better rewarded. Two third place finishes should not be equal to, a first, and a fifth place finish. The biggest difference between modern NASCAR, and stone age NASCAR, is back then, it was about the cars. Now that we have pretty much spec cars, it's all about the drivers. Racing, to me, is about the cars. If you have a good car, just about any driver can do well. A good driver can help a crappy car only so much. Cars attract more people, faster than drivers do. I have noticed that Global Rallycross, is catching on with the younger crowd. Whatever it is they are doing, it might help NASCAR to look into it. I'm not sure, but having half the track being dirt, does make it interesting. I don't think NASCAR should do that, but adding a couple of dirt tracks to the schedule, definitely wouldn't hurt. I'm watching the Tour de France (no relation to Brian) while I'm typing this, and I have noticed that, the closer they get to the end of the race, the less commercials they show. The last ten, or fifteen miles, there are no commercials at all. The crazy thing about that is, it is on NBCSN. They can show the final stretch of a bike race, but they can't show ten laps of a stock car race, without commercials. Who makes these decisions? Thanks to everyone that reads this, for letting me get that off my chest. If you just ignored all this, that's fine, thanks to you too.

 

[ted@economy]

The only thing consistent about NASCAR is it's inconsistency. Bobw you hit the nail on the head. The finish of last night's Xfinity race was a great example of that. When it takes almost ten minuets to figure out who won the race, that is not exciting. If they had thrown the yellow when they should have, there wouldn't have been a problem. The chase... well we don't need to go over that again. Points racing, well there are times when you have to make the best, with what you have. What I hate seeing, is half a car, held together with baleing wire, and duct tape, acting like a moving road block. They need to stop giving points for finishing twenty fifth on down. There would not be any half cars on the track trying to pick up two points. Instead of two points per position, top to bottom, adjust the points so better finishes, are better rewarded. Two third place finishes should not be equal to, a first, and a fifth place finish. The biggest difference between modern NASCAR, and stone age NASCAR, is back then, it was about the cars. Now that we have pretty much spec cars, it's all about the drivers. Racing, to me, is about the cars. If you have a good car, just about any driver can do well. A good driver can help a crappy car only so much. Cars attract more people, faster than drivers do. I have noticed that Global Rallycross, is catching on with the younger crowd. Whatever it is they are doing, it might help NASCAR to look into it. I'm not sure, but having half the track being dirt, does make it interesting. I don't think NASCAR should do that, but adding a couple of dirt tracks to the schedule, definitely wouldn't hurt. I'm watching the Tour de France (no relation to Brian) while I'm typing this, and I have noticed that, the closer they get to the end of the race, the less commercials they show. The last ten, or fifteen miles, there are no commercials at all. The crazy thing about that is, it is on NBCSN. They can show the final stretch of a bike race, but they can't show ten laps of a stock car race, without commercials. Who makes these decisions? Thanks to everyone that reads this, for letting me get that off my chest. If you just ignored all this, that's fine, thanks to you too.

. Folks seem intent on Nascar making more changes to improve the sport of racing. The sport of racing is very simple and never needed changing. You put 40 (43) cars on the track and see how they finish . You add up their finishes for the year and award the best one the season championship. No car has more or less right to participate unless they are shedding debris or not maintaining minimum speed ( then they have to pit and fix it) . This applies to all forms of racing including rally cross and Tour de France. Simplify , we've had all the change we can take.

 

[Team Penske]

I want more change. Start with moving Brian out of his job.

 

[ted@economy]

For me , the 1989 Daytona 500 with Davey Allison nursing his damaged race car home to a 25th place finish was an iconic Nascar moment . Don't remember who won , don't care . For those fans who have no use for 25th place damaged race cars , I feel sorry for you.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

No it wasn't--kind of. What has changed is that Dads are so freakin' busy trying to make mortgage in this day that they don't have the time to share their passions with their kids. It is all anybody can do to make ends meet. We have failed at passing on the love of the car to this generation, and it may never come back. Anytime something skips a generation, it's hard to get it back because it is replaced by something else. I am not any better than anybody else, but I can tell you this about my 18 year old: 1) He loves his 214,000 mile Toyota RAV4 which I bought when he was 3, 2) He loves NASCAR, and if he can't be on the couch watching it with me, he is texting his ass off to me during the race talking strategy, speed, etc. (he freaking kills the data plan every month watching remotely--and I am good with it), and 4) He will never, ever consider buying/driving anything other than a Toyota. I suspect that back in the day when the world wasn't spinning so quickly, tons of Chevy, Ford, and Dodge dads did the same thing. It will be a long, long road back.

You could be 100% correct but I just don't buy it that children are not interested in cars or automobile racing because Mom or Dad didn't pass on passion about it. It probably had more to do with automakers building abominations like the Citation, Fairmont and Reliant K 35 years ago. If you are 50 years old you likely became licensed in 1982 and even 10 year old cars back then were choked down pieces of crap and there were a ton of FWD models which were totally uninspiring. Cars are better today but other than brakes or an oil change you have to have someone else work on it. Not a whole lot for the average Joe or Jane to get excited about.

 

[Marcingak]

The only thing consistent about NASCAR is it's inconsistency. Bobw you hit the nail on the head. The finish of last night's Xfinity race was a great example of that. When it takes almost ten minuets to figure out who won the race, that is not exciting. If they had thrown the yellow when they should have, there wouldn't have been a problem. The chase... well we don't need to go over that again. Points racing, well there are times when you have to make the best, with what you have. What I hate seeing, is half a car, held together with baleing wire, and duct tape, acting like a moving road block. They need to stop giving points for finishing twenty fifth on down. There would not be any half cars on the track trying to pick up two points. Instead of two points per position, top to bottom, adjust the points so better finishes, are better rewarded. Two third place finishes should not be equal to, a first, and a fifth place finish. The biggest difference between modern NASCAR, and stone age NASCAR, is back then, it was about the cars. Now that we have pretty much spec cars, it's all about the drivers. Racing, to me, is about the cars. If you have a good car, just about any driver can do well. A good driver can help a crappy car only so much. Cars attract more people, faster than drivers do. I have noticed that Global Rallycross, is catching on with the younger crowd. Whatever it is they are doing, it might help NASCAR to look into it. I'm not sure, but having half the track being dirt, does make it interesting. I don't think NASCAR should do that, but adding a couple of dirt tracks to the schedule, definitely wouldn't hurt. I'm watching the Tour de France (no relation to Brian) while I'm typing this, and I have noticed that, the closer they get to the end of the race, the less commercials they show. The last ten, or fifteen miles, there are no commercials at all. The crazy thing about that is, it is on NBCSN. They can show the final stretch of a bike race, but they can't show ten laps of a stock car race, without commercials. Who makes these decisions? Thanks to everyone that reads this, for letting me get that off my chest. If you just ignored all this, that's fine, thanks to you too.

The reason they show so many commercials during NASCAR races is because the networks pay $820 million per year for the broadcast rights so they have to get their money back somehow.

 

[Revman]

You could be 100% correct but I just don't buy it that children are not interested in cars or automobile racing because Mom or Dad didn't pass on passion about it. It probably had more to do with automakers building abominations like the Citation, Fairmont and Reliant K 35 years ago. If you are 50 years old you likely became licensed in 1982 and even 10 year old cars back then were choked down pieces of crap and there were a ton of FWD models which were totally uninspiring. Cars are better today but other than brakes or an oil change you have to have someone else work on it. Not a whole lot for the average Joe or Jane to get excited about.

This is a sport whose nuances need to be explained to kids. That takes time. Parents do not have time. The quality of cars over time has nothing to do with the passion for a car. The automobile has always been about independence and freedom (Happy 4th of July BTW). Most of us were eager to drive pieces of crap. Kids aren't anymore because they have other ways to connect. When I got my first job, I bought a 1990 Toyota Tercel (86 horsepower and no air conditioning, no radio). Couldn't make it a block without tearing up to the point where I had to pull over. Teach kids to appreciate stuff, and they will...but it takes time. IMO NASCAR is going down the wrong path with shortening races, etc. to grab the attention of the target demographic. Get somebody that they can watch with, and that demographic will come because this sport is cool, and they are smart. As NASCAR fans, we take for granted what young people are willing and eager to learn.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

This is a sport whose nuances need to be explained to kids. That takes time. Parents do not have time. The quality of cars over time has nothing to do with the passion for a car. The automobile has always been about independence and freedom (Happy 4th of July BTW). Most of us were eager to drive pieces of crap. Kids aren't anymore because they have other ways to connect. When I got my first job, I bought a 1990 Toyota Tercel (86 horsepower and no air conditioning, no radio). Couldn't make it a block without tearing up to the point where I had to pull over. Teach kids to appreciate stuff, and they will...but it takes time. IMO NASCAR is going down the wrong path with shortening races, etc. to grab the attention of the target demographic. Get somebody that they can watch with, and that demographic will come because this sport is cool, and they are smart. As NASCAR fans, we take for granted what young people are willing and eager to learn.

I think sports and Nascar both have nuances and you can enjoy all of them by either having an intimate or a casual knowledge. Football may have more nuances then anything and it is the most popular thing going so IDK if many people skip the nuances and just enjoy what they see or if they learn the nuances over time. If parents not having time to explain the nuances of Nascar to their kids is a factor in its decline Nascar's future looks grim.

 

[Revman]

If parents not having time to explain the nuances of Nascar to their kids is a factor in its decline Nascar's future looks grim.

Parenting has never been better. It looks different, but it is better. People are starting to understand that you have to commit to spending time with your kids. The world doesn't just let this happen. It is getting better, and IMO families will come back to the track because there isn't a more fan friendly sport on this planet. Was just at a 4th of July parade, and my kid shows up with his girlfriend. Immediately says to me, "I think Kentucky is going to be insane. Questionable tire, repave, etc." Talked/argued for 45 minutes about what might happen. What does football give you? Few talk match ups, etc. Our sport lends itself to this, and we need to capitalize. Again, the kids want to have the conversation. Are we going to make time?

 

[ted@economy]

I think @Matthew2470 is a great example of a dad introducing his son to Nascar . Great job Matt !

 

[Skoalbandit33]

Parenting has never been better. It looks different, but it is better. People are starting to understand that you have to commit to spending time with your kids. The world doesn't just let this happen. It is getting better, and IMO families will come back to the track because there isn't a more fan friendly sport on this planet. Was just at a 4th of July parade, and my kid shows up with his girlfriend. Immediately says to me, "I think Kentucky is going to be insane. Questionable tire, repave, etc." Talked/argued for 45 minutes about what might happen. What does football give you? Few talk match ups, etc. Our sport lends itself to this, and we need to capitalize. Again, the kids want to have the conversation. Are we going to make time?

I think cost and time commitment are the 2 biggest things keeping families and people away from the track at this point and unfortunately I don't see those things changing anytime soon if at all. A family going to a Nascar race could spend about the same amount of money in 3-4 days as a 1 week vacation at the beach or elsewhere so there is competition for whatever disposable income a family has.

I have found that people discuss what interests them and the greater the interest the more they want to talk about it. If people are very interested in football they could be discussing things from the impact free agency and the draft on any of the 32 teams to whether RG III will succeed in Cleveland to division winners and the list goes on and on. A lot of people would be put to sleep by that discussion but many would be offering opinions.

This forum is the only place I speak of Nascar as IDK anyone in the real world that follows the series any longer. It used to be the same with hockey but over the years more fans have been developed and this was a banner year for USA hockey and all the American players drafted in the recently concluded NHL draft. I never thought I would see the day when hockey was discussed in my area so there is hope Nascar could spring back.

 

[R Clarence]

RG III will succeed in Cleveland

He'll be fantastic as long as he's not in Washington. HTTR.

In my circle of friends we still talk racing. Not as enthusiastically as we once did. Old school people. Doubt either of us watched any of Saturday's racing-entertainment.

 

[Matthew2470]

I think @Matthew2470 is a great example of a dad introducing his son to Nascar . Great job Matt !

Chicagoland 2015


Even though I've taken him to see probably 15 Cup races over the years at MIS, Chicagoland, Indy and Bristol he's still more interested in the NFL, MLB and NBA. He watches parts of races with me here and there (way less since JG retired) but he just gets bored sometimes. But he's 12 so I can understand him wanting to be outside, playing Xbox or watching YouTube.

 

[Revman]

I think cost and time commitment are the 2 biggest things keeping families and people away from the track at this point and unfortunately I don't see those things changing anytime soon if at all. A family going to a Nascar race could spend about the same amount of money in 3-4 days as a 1 week vacation at the beach or elsewhere so there is competition for whatever disposable income a family has.

I have found that people discuss what interests them and the greater the interest the more they want to talk about it. If people are very interested in football they could be discussing things from the impact free agency and the draft on any of the 32 teams to whether RG III will succeed in Cleveland to division winners and the list goes on and on. A lot of people would be put to sleep by that discussion but many would be offering opinions.

This forum is the only place I speak of Nascar as IDK anyone in the real world that follows the series any longer. It used to be the same with hockey but over the years more fans have been developed and this was a banner year for USA hockey and all the American players drafted in the recently concluded NHL draft. I never thought I would see the day when hockey was discussed in my area so there is hope Nascar could spring back.

That is a damn good post man. I do have hope for the time issue. This is a society still trying to figure out how parents (single or together) can work, and spend the time necessary to raise decent kids. It's getting better, but certainly to your point, not there. Money-wise....hard to be optimistic, but with incomes static, priorities are the only avenue to opportunity, and those priorities do not really include NASCAR at this point as you said. Nice conversation man. I enjoyed it.