NASCAR - Television Ratings Thread

Acs said:
Speak for yourself, that wasn't my intent.
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I was speaking for myself. Who on earth did you think I was speaking for?

I thought you gave a thorough explanation of how things worked and thought the "Yeah I knew all that but as usual I was being somewhat sarcastic" was funny. I would chat longer but the dog ate my homework so I am redoing it.
 
Acs said:
Speak for yourself, that wasn't my intent.
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Your intent was quite clear.

Again, you did a thorough job and I have no doubt it opened some eyes. Thanks one more time.
 
Acs said:
Why do you think stage racing was implemented? Do you honestly think it's to improve the "racing product" and excitement? Nope. They're TV timeouts. The networks needed to increase TV commercial inventory dramatically in order to make up for the ratings decline. Either the networks were going to flood the broadcast with commercials during green-flag racing (which obviously ticks off fans), or NASCAR was going to have to have to figure out a way to give them more guaranteed breaks in the race. Hence, stage breaks.
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One thing that hasn't happened over the last few years is to increase the time devoted to commercial breaks between green flag and checkered flag. Whenever I look at the weekly Jayski breakdown, the time in commercial break seems to be pretty consistent with ~22-24% of total minutes devoted to commercial breaks... same as before stages were introduced.

I agree that the stages result in yellow flag commercial breaks. But if total commercial breaks remain the same, where do these minutes come from? One, from green flag ad breaks. Two, from yellow flag ad breaks during debris cautions. I don't think there is any doubt that questionable debris cautions virtually disappeared when stages were introduced. I believe the Drivers Council, spurred on by social media, forced Nascar's hand on this. The result has been widely praised, although not universally so.

I also agree that the networks are aggressive at expanding commercials during the broadcast between actual ad breaks. Partly that is to thwart DVR users such as myself. I hate all these commercials. I just don't know of a better way. I'd gladly pay for a commercial-free subscription, but that would bring with it a whole host of problems regarding team sponsorship needs. It is a can of foul, stinky worms.
 
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Ouch. Another double digit drop. At least the crowd at the track was decent.
 
Looks like the NCAA rulz followed by the Tiger aided PGA. Next week, we still have the road to the final four to compete with. I don't know that Tiger will be playing this coming weekend heading to the following weekend's Master's Tournament.
 
It's amazing. One guy playing well and the PGA rockets right back to where it was in it's glory days. No stages, resets, gimmicks or rule changes necessary. Meanwhile NASCAR gets demoted down to the 9th most popular sport and somehow we still have people on here claiming NASCAR is "big league".
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
It will be interesting to see how all this social media hocus pocus stuff shakes out as right now Nascar sponsors and team sponsors don't seem impressed. Anything is possible but I have not yet felt the need to engage with twitter and haven't seen anything that would entice me to sign up.
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I think Nascar sponsors have teams of people working on this. How stubborn management is will determine how fast they implicate the information. Team sponsors have listened and are cancelling their participation.
 
Acs said:
It's amazing. One guy playing well and the PGA rockets right back to where it was in it's glory days. No stages, resets, gimmicks or rule changes necessary. Meanwhile NASCAR gets demoted down to the 9th most popular sport and somehow we still have people on here claiming NASCAR is "big league".
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Yes, and when Woods fades or falters again (not hoping for that), the PGA will sink again with him. It's cool they get to ride his resurgence for now. Being completely dependent on one player isn't a good lesson in how to build a professional sports entity though. Their demographic makeup is even less desirable than NASCAR's, except for being more affluent. There is no future of prominence there unless another Tiger comes along.

I'm glad they didn't gimmick up their game, that I agree on.
 
Acs said:
More commercials doesn't mean more interest from advertisers... quite the opposite actually.

The way it works is Fox and NBC paid a fixed amount for the broadcast rights to NASCAR (the actual cashflow increases every year but for finance purposes it's amortized), they have to recoup that by selling advertising slots in the broadcast, which they and not NASCAR have full control over (other sports like the NBA and NFL have limits in place on how long and when ads can be shown in the game but noooooooo NASCAR was too dumb to do that).

Fox can either charge more for fewer ads (think the superbowl) or charge less for more ad time, but either way they are gonna make back their dollar. The going rate for advertising time is pretty directly tied to the program's ratings. So when your ratings are half what they were a decade ago, you get more commercials for the same rate (and if the program fails to meet the ratings specified the networks have to show "freebie" ads to make up for it, hence why you see the same ad run again later in the program). And then if you still can't get advertisers to pay your asking rate, the networks run ads promoting their other broadcasts as a last resort.

Why do you think stage racing was implemented? Do you honestly think it's to improve the "racing product" and excitement? Nope. They're TV timeouts. The networks needed to increase TV commercial inventory dramatically in order to make up for the ratings decline. Either the networks were going to flood the broadcast with commercials during green-flag racing (which obviously ticks off fans), or NASCAR was going to have to have to figure out a way to give them more guaranteed breaks in the race. Hence, stage breaks.

Hope that helps.
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I have a question. Are there no regulations in USA regarding the amount of time they can spend on commercials?? I live in Canada and I know we have limits. I suggest the splits with racing in one small box and the commercial in another bigger box is one attempt to get around those rules but I am not positive. We won't know unless complaints are filed with the CRTC.
 
joe h said:
Thank god for that California market.
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I'll be interested in how you feel about the Martinsville, Texas, Bristol, and Richmond markets when those ratings are posted in coming weeks.
 
gnomesayin said:
Yes, and when Woods fades or falters again (not hoping for that), the PGA will sink again with him. It's cool they get to ride his resurgence for now. Being completely dependent on one player isn't a good lesson in how to build a professional sports entity though. Their demographic makeup is even less desirable than NASCAR's, except for being more affluent. There is no future of prominence there unless another Tiger comes along.

I'm glad they didn't gimmick up their game, that I agree on.
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No doubt Tiger provides a huge boost to golf. However, golf did go on a bit of a streak during the summer months last year, before he returned. From June through September something like 15 of 20 windows showed an increase including one streak of eight straight increases.

Why that happened, I have no idea. Post-Tiger golf will certainly take another hit, but I think there are still enough good, interesting, young golfers out there that will spare us a PGA death bed thread.
 
FLRacingFan said:
No doubt Tiger provides a huge boost to golf. However, golf did go on a bit of a streak during the summer months last year, before he returned. From June through September something like 15 of 20 windows showed an increase including one streak of eight straight increases.

Why that happened, I have no idea. Post-Tiger golf will certainly take another hit, but I think there are still enough good, interesting, young golfers out there that will spare us a PGA death bed thread.
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Yep, like NASCAR, golf is not going away any time soon. Unlike NASCAR, golf is a sport that most everyone can experience first hand. Hell, I've even been as good as Tiger a shot or two in my lifetime but I'll never be able to wheel a car like Kyle Busch.

There's room for and an audience for all of these sports each weekend.
 
gnomesayin said:
Yes, and when Woods fades or falters again (not hoping for that), the PGA will sink again with him. It's cool they get to ride his resurgence for now. Being completely dependent on one player isn't a good lesson in how to build a professional sports entity though. Their demographic makeup is even less desirable than NASCAR's, except for being more affluent. There is no future of prominence there unless another Tiger comes along.
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Well said. I agree with this part.
gnomesayin said:
I'm glad they didn't gimmick up their game, that I agree on.
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I agree with this too at first blush. But it is hard to know what is a gimmick and what is a legitimate decision to organize and market the competition. Professional golf is played under a variety of formats and different conditions... regular season, chase-like playoffs, stroke play, match play, full field, elite field, team events, majors that are scored way different in the standings, etc.

And the stone tablets from God didn't say which way was righteous and "correct." The important thing to the competitors, and their fans, is that the players go out on the course and do their thing... a sporting test of skills, strategy, and execution.
 
So far, through 5 weeks of action:

Cup is averaging 5.65 million this year, compared to 7.0 million at this point last year (down 1.35 million); those numbers are a bit skewed due to the dropoff for the Daytona 500 (take that away and Cup is only down an average of 1 million).

Xfinity is averaging 1.24 million this year, compared to 1.71 million at this point last year (down about 467,000).

Even though there wasn't a truck race in the spring at Vegas last year, the truck series is averaging 819.3 thousand compared to 1.27 million at this point last year (down 452,000). Look for the truck numbers to drop a bit further after Martinsville this weekend, considering it was on Fox last year (the most-viewed truck race of the 2017 season) and is on FS1 this year.

The only event that's gone up from a year ago is the Clash.
 
MikeInIllinois said:
So far, through 5 weeks of action:

Cup is averaging 5.65 million this year, compared to 7.0 million at this point last year (down 1.35 million); those numbers are a bit skewed due to the dropoff for the Daytona 500 (take that away and Cup is only down an average of 1 million).

Xfinity is averaging 1.24 million this year, compared to 1.71 million at this point last year (down about 467,000).

Even though there wasn't a truck race in the spring at Vegas last year, the truck series is averaging 819.3 thousand compared to 1.27 million at this point last year (down 452,000). Look for the truck numbers to drop a bit further after Martinsville this weekend, considering it was on Fox last year (the most-viewed truck race of the 2017 season) and is on FS1 this year.

The only event that's gone up from a year ago is the Clash.
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Interestingly enough there are people that will tell you that what you have just posted is fine as Nascar is losing fans like other sports.
 
Nascar audience losses in comparison to the NFL loses the last couple of years? thousands to millions. An average game lost around 1.6 million each on average.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
Interestingly enough there are people that will tell you that what you have just posted is fine as Nascar is losing fans like other sports.
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Out of curiosity, what can anyone on this forum do about the sliding numbers? Not a thing. Anybody with half a brain can read the TV ratings, and view the stands and see that the numbers are down. So be it. If there were ever a shred of positive info shared about racing via the mainstream media outlets, the passive types may tune back in. But there is never any positive news shared about NASCAR. If it is, I haven't seen it. Interesting enough, there are people that seem to honestly enjoy the downturn for a sport they follow closely. Now that's what is wierd to me. I couldn't give a rip about basketball, that's why I'm not a member of a forum where its discussed. If I were a fan of that, I would try to find something positive to focus on, not the never ending negative. Negative is easy, optimism is better. My best guess is it will take a season or two for fans to tune in to Blaney, Elliot, Byron and some if the other new kids. I'm happy to give it time.
 
mack said:
Out of curiosity, what can anyone on this forum do about the sliding numbers? Not a thing. Anybody with half a brain can read the TV ratings, and view the stands and see that the numbers are down. So be it. If there were ever a shred of positive info shared about racing via the mainstream media outlets, the passive types may tune back in. But there is never any positive news shared about NASCAR. If it is, I haven't seen it. Interesting enough, there are people that seem to honestly enjoy the downturn for a sport they follow closely. Now that's what is wierd to me. I couldn't give a rip about basketball, that's why I'm not a member of a forum where its discussed. If I were a fan of that, I would try to find something positive to focus on, not the never ending negative. Negative is easy, optimism is better. My best guess is it will take a season or two for fans to tune in to Blaney, Elliot, Byron and some if the other new kids. I'm happy to give it time.
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Next time I’m in Alabama I’ll take you out for drinks.
 
mack said:
Out of curiosity, what can anyone on this forum do about the sliding numbers? Not a thing. Anybody with half a brain can read the TV ratings, and view the stands and see that the numbers are down. So be it. If there were ever a shred of positive info shared about racing via the mainstream media outlets, the passive types may tune back in. But there is never any positive news shared about NASCAR. If it is, I haven't seen it. Interesting enough, there are people that seem to honestly enjoy the downturn for a sport they follow closely. Now that's what is wierd to me. I couldn't give a rip about basketball, that's why I'm not a member of a forum where its discussed. If I were a fan of that, I would try to find something positive to focus on, not the never ending negative. Negative is easy, optimism is better. My best guess is it will take a season or two for fans to tune in to Blaney, Elliot, Byron and some if the other new kids. I'm happy to give it time.
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IDK if you meant to address this to me or just as a general statement as none of it applies to what I said. I said "there are people that will tell you that what you have just posted is fine as Nascar is losing fans like other sports." If you want to talk about weird I would offer that as something to nominated.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
IDK if you meant to address this to me or just as a general statement as none of it applies to what I said. I said "there are people that will tell you that what you have just posted is fine as Nascar is losing fans like other sports." If you want to talk about weird I would offer that as something to nominated.
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All forms of entertainment are cyclical. Look no further than Hollywood. Movie attendance is way off. Where's the naysayers that are pronouncing the upcoming demise of movie making? Are they still making movies? Yes. Are A-listers making less money? Yes, if part of their compensation is tied the the retail performance of the movie. The consuming American public has fickle taste, always has had. Current trends in viewership doesn't mean the sky is falling. Its not. Will there be adjustments through out the sport. Probably so, but NASCAR isn't dying or dead.
 
mack said:
All forms of entertainment are cyclical. Look no further than Hollywood. Movie attendance is way off. Where's the naysayers that are pronouncing the upcoming demise of movie making? Are they still making movies? Yes. Are A-listers making less money? Yes, if part of their compensation is tied the the retail performance of the movie. The consuming American public has fickle taste, always has had. Current trends in viewership doesn't mean the sky is falling. Its not. Will there be adjustments through out the sport. Probably so, but NASCAR isn't dying or dead.
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IDK about Hollywood or Movies or A-listers as I have no interest that sort of thing but I will take your word for it. Once again I have no idea why this is directed at me as I believe Nascar will always be around in one form or another but it will get smaller to reflect its audience. I think even Nascar believes this as that is what happens when the size of your audience is significantly reduced. If you care to explain why this stuff is directed at me that is fine and if not that is fine too.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
IDK about Hollywood or Movies or A-listers as I have no interest that sort of thing but I will take your word for it. Once again I have no idea why this is directed at me as I believe Nascar will always be around in one form or another but it will get smaller to reflect its audience. I think even Nascar believes this as that is what happens when the size of your audience is significantly reduced. If you care to explain why this stuff is directed at me that is fine and if not that is fine too.
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He spoke to your post and was not speaking “at” you.
 
"Interestingly enough there are people that will tell you that what you have just posted is fine as Nascar is losing fans like other sports."

No one has addressed this because there is nothing to address. Some people (even on this forum) don't see Nascar's loss of fans as a problem as they are losing fans like other sports. Deep breaths!
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
Interestingly enough there are people that will tell you that what you have just posted is fine as Nascar is losing fans like other sports.
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It's not just fine. It's GREAT! There is no downside for me as a fan if less people are watching. Ticket prices stay low, smaller crowds mean more access at the races, and some millionaires make a few less billion than they would have.
 
mack said:
Interesting enough, there are people that seem to honestly enjoy the downturn for a sport they follow closely. Now that's what is wierd to me.
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Short Man Syndrome is an actual thing, according to the American Medical Association. A need to belittle others is a common symptom.
 
sloggie said:
It's not just fine. It's GREAT! There is no downside for me as a fan if less people are watching. Ticket prices stay low, smaller crowds mean more access at the races, and some millionaires make a few less billion than they would have.
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I like your take on things and I think there are several members here that feel the same way. It is a kind of a lose/win proposition as the more Nascar, tracks and owners lose the more the fans win. The less people watch Nascar means the fewer people interested in the series means less people at the track which means better parking, cheaper tickets and more places to stretch out I think we made a silk purse out of this sow's ear!
LewTheShoe said:
Short Man Syndrome is an actual thing, according to the American Medical Association. A need to belittle others is a common symptom.
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JMO but I think if we worried about ourselves more instead of what we think someone else's motivations are or what one thinks is weird we might have more civil debates. There are lots of things I don't understand with one being how can a person sequester themselves inside on a beautiful afternoon watching a live cup race full of commercials and other unimportant things. I don't understand it but I honor it and don't worry that people do it as it is none of my concern.

If someone wants to come on here and be a Nascar apologist I am fine with it and if I am offended by it the forum affords me many options.It is the same thing for a person that hammers on Nascar as if I don't like it I don't have to read it and become enraged.Some people feel it is better for Nascar to lose 20% of 4.7 million people then it is the NFL lose 10% of 20,000 million.
 
sloggie said:
It's not just fine. It's GREAT! There is no downside for me as a fan if less people are watching. Ticket prices stay low, smaller crowds mean more access at the races, and some millionaires make a few less billion than they would have.
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That's kind of the way I'm looking at it. I can now work a few hours in the morning then go to the Pocono races. There's no traffic if you arrive an hour before the green flag and getting out is a breeze. I haven't sat in legit race traffic in 4-5 years. That time span includes attending races at Michigan and Kentucky. The lower ticket prices has afforded me the opportunity to attend 4-5 races a year. Hotel prices are no longer affected and there's no minimum stays. I'm trying to take advantage of it before things either go belly-up (not likely) or demand returns and attending races becomes more of an adventure.
 
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