NASCAR To Set Multicar Team Limits

kat2220

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Roush unhappy
NASCAR plans to put limits on multicar teams
Posted: Saturday October 8, 2005 4:03PM; Updated: Saturday October 8, 2005 4:03PM

KANSAS CITY, Kan. (AP) -- NASCAR plans to limit the number of teams a car owner will be able to field in the Nextel Cup series, chairman Brian France said Saturday.

"We're going to make some adjustments in policy to balance the playing field a little better and really go after new ownership in the industry, really benefit and help the teams like the Wood Brothers, the Pettys, Cal Wells, independent teams that are finding themselves in ever increasing difficulties to compete," France said.

He said the limit would be phased in over the next few seasons.

"It won't happen tomorrow," France said. "But it would phase down from five to four to some other number."

All of the top teams currently in NASCAR are multicar teams, with Roush Racing and Hendrick Motorsports leading the way with five and four cars, respectively.

The benefits of running more than one car are clear: additional tests under current testing limits, information sharing among the teams, multiple sponsorships that provide great resources and, sometimes, on-track cooperation among teammates.

But France said the success of the big teams is also viewed as an obstacle to people contemplating starting a new Cup team. For example, Jack Roush's team has won the last two Cup titles and all five of his cars are in NASCAR's 10-race Chase for the championship.

"We don't like the fact that the independent teams, or in particular a new owner looking at coming in the door, have a daunting task to compete, and the concept of having to have five teams, three teams ... that's why you haven't seen a lot of new ownership like a Ray Evernham come into the sport," France said.

"That means the opportunities aren't there for young drivers. It means opportunities aren't there to create the next Rick Hendrick and have the success. "It ultimately means that we don't field as many competitive cars as we'd like to field. We're going to have to address that."

Roush wasn't happy with the news.

"Responding to the meeting and anything that might have happened in it is something I can't do because I'm ignorant of what happened," Roush said. "And the reason I'm ignorant in this case is because I was given neither the consideration nor the courtesy of either being consulted or informed of what they'll do or what they might do or what they're considering doing.

"The thing that I will say to all the fans and all the sponsors and all the drivers and all the many people that are important to us is that we're committed to this business. We've made a huge investment in it. I've raised myself to do what I'm doing today, as have many people who have put their trust in me, and we won't let them down."

But Roush stopped short of giving NASCAR an ultimatum.

"Having said that," he added, "we will cooperate and participate with NASCAR at any level with any part that they'll let us have to have rules and process and mores that are both understandable, defensible and are in the best interest of the sport and the business. And, so, whatever rules they come up with, we're in."

Jeff Gordon, a four-time Cup champion and also listed as the owner of Hendrick Motorsports teammate Jimmie Johnson's car, said the reason there are so many multicar teams is because there haven't been any limitations.

"Once you build an organization up, the ability to start another team is so much more efficient for you than to start one up from scratch," Gordon said.

"I would hope that if they're thinking in that direction, they're also thinking of franchising those teams as well because there's just such a big investment that goes into it. Once you start a team it would be nice to know there's value in that team beyond just the ability to pull sponsorship and put good race cars out there on the racetrack."

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 
Wow, that is BIG NEWS Kat. I think it would be a good move on Nascar's part to limit the number of teams to 3. otherwise we will eventually end up with a half dozen owners in Nascar.
 
I think it would at least help make the middle of the field, back of the pack more competitive
 
Whoa !!!! I can't believe it...finally :) .....Does this mean owners will have to sell off some of their teams????
 
The Cat In The Hat must be fit to be tied! I'll take odds that he will find a way around it!
 
I kinda like having the team dynamics come into play on the track...

...I'm not sold on the idea yet...

...yet.
 
This is the biggest news in many a year. Roush is probably working overtime trying to think of a way to get around it.

btw, the other piece of news was that Nascar will probably be using ABC / ESPN in 2006 for some of the races.
 
Actually, there already exists such a rule. Unless they have changed the rule, the current rule is that no one person can own more than two teams. That's why in the past you would hear the likes of drivers for the #25 car say thanks to Papa Hendrick and so on. On paper, Rick Hendrick is the sole owner of cars #5 and #24. Papa owns the #25 and the #48 is co-owned by Rick and Jeffy. That's just an example and the in the same way, the Roush teams are owned by more than one intity. This is something that is a normal practice all around the country and it probably has more to do with finances than actual race practice, but allowing those teams to colaborate with one another ended up being such a huge advantage. The problem for NASCAR will be finding away to prevent such things happening again, and I'm not sure they will be able to do that.

BTW, France also wants to do away with such big engine programs such as the Roush/Yates deal. Looks to me that what they are really trying to do is to limit Jack Roush.
 
Your not the only one who thinks that way, Buckaroo. There are others who are saying the samething.
 
Im sure they are really trying to limit what Jack can do.......If anything the past 3 year they have helped him more then anyone else.
 
That's B.S.!
You should be able to do what you can afford to do. It's just the Shivvy guys cryin' about the Fords!
If you can't beat 'em, squeek til they change the rules.
 
BobbyFord said:
That's B.S.!
You should be able to do what you can afford to do. It's just the Shivvy guys cryin' about the Fords!
If you can't beat 'em, squeek til they change the rules.
:rolleyes:
 
BobbyFord said:
That's B.S.!
You should be able to do what you can afford to do. It's just the Shivvy guys cryin' about the Fords!
If you can't beat 'em, squeek til they change the rules.


Of course it is...and God knows, no one can whine quite like Chevrolet can. It's that whole French thing. ;)
 
Come on. Limit the teams? Its just not going to be able to be enforced. I am sure that when the hammer comes down and NASCAR limits the teams to three good ol Jack will sell a team to say, Mark Martin for $10 or something crazy like that and he'll sell another to some celebrity that wants to have his fame in NASCAR as being an owner and Jack will just happen to be able to help those two owners with chassis technology and sharing of information will be like none other etc. etc. I am pretty sure that Hall of Fame racing is an extension of Joe Gibbs racing so limit all you want but I think in the end the same people that want to get into this sport will still not be able to.
 
Seems to me, the only people whining are the ford fans...but what else is new. And how quickly they turn it around saying that Chevy is doing the crying.

"NASCAR made the Chase to help Jr win"

"NASCAR is trying to break Rousch Racing up"

Waaa waa sniff bawl.....someone change my diaper. NASCAR is so unfair to ford.


If its not one conspriacy against ford its another for Chevy. Get over it. Rousch probably has the biggest winning percentage out there right now and you people are still bitching......
 
If you ford guys will stop sobbing in your milk for a minute and think about something, and someone has already touched on it.......Martin is leaving after next year. There's no way NASCAR will implement this B.S. rule change in time for next season. All Roach has to do is let Marky run another team, other than Kenseth's, which I think he's half owner already. I'm not 100% sure on that, but I think that's what I heard one time and I really don't care to look it up. So, Mark will have two teams and Rousch will have three. Then again, Mark may not want to it or Kenseth may wise up and leave the team and no one will have to worry about it.

There...feel better now? Good....go get a cookie.

That's only one way they can go around it. I'm sure boB or Da Whiz can come up with several other ideas and shoot my idea down as fast as Rousch cost Martin his only chance at a Winston Cup.
 
I agree with fergy and think he's on to something.

I think all the rule will do is create 'TEAM Owners'; meaning for example; Jack sells/gives Mark martin 51% of the 17 and 6 teams, then he sells/gives 51% of the 97 and 99 to Robbie Riser, then he simply owns the 16 himself, and buys another.

Look to Hendrick to do the same. According to NASCAR's own standards (see ISC ownership) if you own less than 50% stake in a company, you're not an owner =)

I just think it'll create superteams inside what we already have. We'll have more cup team owners per se, but overall it'll be the same guys pulling the strings.

On the other hand - it is good NASCAR is listening to the fans, and adjusting rules to include more of us. I think that's pretty cool.

- K y l e
 
I don't want to poop on the party but lets give Nascar a little credit for having the ability to circumvent any attempt that may be made by team owners to field more than the allowed teams. They are not going into this to make fools out of themselves. :)
 
Instead of limiting just OWNERS, they need to limit owners, and/or orginizations on the same property.
 
fergy1370 said:
If you ford guys will stop sobbing in your milk for a minute and think about something, and someone has already touched on it.......Martin is leaving after next year. There's no way NASCAR will implement this B.S. rule change in time for next season. All Roach has to do is let Marky run another team, other than Kenseth's, which I think he's half owner already. I'm not 100% sure on that, but I think that's what I heard one time and I really don't care to look it up. So, Mark will have two teams and Rousch will have three. Then again, Mark may not want to it or Kenseth may wise up and leave the team and no one will have to worry about it.

There...feel better now? Good....go get a cookie.

That's only one way they can go around it. I'm sure boB or Da Whiz can come up with several other ideas and shoot my idea down as fast as Rousch cost Martin his only chance at a Winston Cup.

5 Fords in the top ten, all Roush.
Two Cup Championships in the last two years.
No, it ain't the Fords that are cryin'.
 
Rousch cried after every race for years until the new Ford body came out.

However, Vickers and Busch were bawling after yesterdays race about shocks. So, I guess it works both ways.
 
It seems to me that one issue that needs to be addressed is the number of test sessions. Possibly if this were limited to 7 per car and 14 per team regardless of how many cars were on the team that the single car owners could be appeased somewhat.
Now with Rousch having 35 test sessions, Hendrick with 28 and next year Ganassi with 28 the teams like the Woods Brothers is at a disadvantage. But, if the cap is 14 then they are on an equal footing.
 
the only way nascar will be able to limit the amount of cars a team can have is by creating a francise series....just like NHL, NBA, NFL, and MLB...that way nascar can say...yes you can be an owner...and yes you can have this many cars...this way they can say that veto a sale to someone..say roush wants to sell a team to Mark Martin...well nascar may not approve of it and nix it.

the best way to do it is to limit the amount of testing that goes on...they have got to get that under control...roush has 35 test a year to Cal Wells 7 test a year...no wonder the 35 car sucks.....make it to where every team gets 7 test, not every car....the manufactor or Nascar picks where you test.
 
barelypure said:
It seems to me that one issue that needs to be addressed is the number of test sessions. Possibly if this were limited to 7 per car and 14 per team regardless of how many cars were on the team that the single car owners could be appeased somewhat.
Now with Rousch having 35 test sessions, Hendrick with 28 and next year Ganassi with 28 the teams like the Woods Brothers is at a disadvantage. But, if the cap is 14 then they are on an equal footing.


I never really paid any attention to this.....the amount of testing done by the teams. ( As rules change and other quirky stuff continues to happen, I pay less and less attention to just about everything now.) But this is an excellent point....maybe a limit should be set on the amount of testing or just give a set amount of dates that all teams could use.
 
Make them all test on the same track that would level the playing field a little. Limit it to say...6 sessions per year.
 
Kyle48 said:
I agree with fergy and think he's on to something.

I think all the rule will do is create 'TEAM Owners'; meaning for example; Jack sells/gives Mark martin 51% of the 17 and 6 teams, then he sells/gives 51% of the 97 and 99 to Robbie Riser, then he simply owns the 16 himself, and buys another.

Look to Hendrick to do the same. According to NASCAR's own standards (see ISC ownership) if you own less than 50% stake in a company, you're not an owner =)

I just think it'll create superteams inside what we already have. We'll have more cup team owners per se, but overall it'll be the same guys pulling the strings.

On the other hand - it is good NASCAR is listening to the fans, and adjusting rules to include more of us. I think that's pretty cool.

- K y l e
That is the way they are doing things right now. Jack isn't the owner on paper of all five teams. His wife's name is on two of the teams. As I stated earlier, they already have a rule that no one person can own more than two teams, but they work around it by putting different names on the ownership label.
 
buckaroo said:
That is the way they are doing things right now. Jack isn't the owner on paper of all five teams. His wife's name is on two of the teams. As I stated earlier, they already have a rule that no one person can own more than two teams, but they work around it by putting different names on the ownership label.

Ah, okay. See, I didn't know that.

The point is still the same though; so long as there's different owners, but info sharing there's no way to regulate it. NASCAR can never say; "You can't tell that guy what you know."

What it may do is create 'stables', like in UFC fighting or something. (Bad example, but the best available) UFC 'stables' are groups of fighters that train together, usually two heavyweights, two welterweights, and on down the line. They will fight eachother, but typically they share tech info on styles of opponants, strategies, etc. Usually the larger stables are more successful, and have the better fighters because of the sparring they get. All the guys are obviously stand-alone fighters, but the info they share on opponants is priceless.

- K y l e
 
Lap3Forever said:
Im sure they are really trying to limit what Jack can do.......If anything the past 3 year they have helped him more then anyone else.

Please give us examples of this extra help that Roush has gotten, Lap3.

This rule won't change anything anyway. Wood Bros could field two more Roush cars under their name & Roush could have three as well. Funny how every one thinks this is the Roush rule, though. If this rule mattered, it would affect the bribery felon as well.
 
CypressTrout said:
Please give us examples of this extra help that Roush has gotten, Lap3.

This rule won't change anything anyway. Wood Bros could field two more Roush cars under their name & Roush could have three as well. Funny how every one thinks this is the Roush rule, though. If this rule mattered, it would affect the bribery felon as well.

It is a rule basically to limit the multi-car teams (like Roush) from having an advantage over the single-car or two-car teams.
Roush is able to test many setups at one time. Tests are limited by time, more cars more test time. If a single-car team goes for a test session a lot of their time might be spent in the garage changing an ill handling setup.
 
I saw this on the NASCAR Talk Back board----

The Roush Racing Series

Kinda has a nice ring to it---might go back to the original tracks that made stock car racing the sport we all love so much.

Wasn't it too many rules and seeming favoritism that split Cart/Indy?

Mr. HotShot Brian is stepping in the cow pies----and I got a feeling his new boots are gonna fall apart. :lurk:
 
Honestly, I think the whole thing is a crock. Why doesn't nascar limit the number of personnel that can be hired by an individual owner while they are at it. Roush and the Felon field more cars than anyone else. Therefore, they have more to gain, but also more to lose each week. It's a bigger risk to field 4 cars than 2. I understand the "little guy" is at a disadvantage to larger teams but it has always been that way. Honestly, can anyone say the racing in the 80s-90s was more competitive across the board than it is today ??? No way . It was a smaller handful of drivers succeeding every week.If they are worried about the additional test helping the larger teams, ban testing all together. Here are the 1980-present number of race winners per year---

1980-10 1985-9 1990-14 1995-11 2000-14 2005-15
1981-10 1986-13 1991-15 1996-11 2001-19 (so far)
1982- 8 1987-9 1992-12 1997-11 2002-18
1983-11 1988-14 1993-10 1998-11 2003-17
1984-12 1989-11 1994-12 1999-11 2004-12
Avg-10.2 Avg-11.2 Avg-12.6 Avg-11 Avg-16

As you can see, there is a huge jump starting in 2000-present in number of different race winners.Much better chance at finding victory lane now than in the 80s or 90s.The only way to give every car an equal chance to win every week is to run plates at every track & he who survives, wins.And, I will stop watching long before it gets to that point.
 
As mentioned on INC last night I am sure that NASCAR would have not floated the balloon had they not determined a way to limit the number of cars under the influence. I think I will take the ol wait and see attitude.
 
N2racin88 said:
As mentioned on INC last night I am sure that NASCAR would have not floated the balloon had they not determined a way to limit the number of cars under the influence. I think I will take the ol wait and see attitude.
Agreed. Also, they have said that it won't be all at once. One thing is chrystal clear here and that is the Brian France wants very much to have a minority team, mainly black, come into the sport with some success. We have seen attempts over the years with totally no success at all. Quite possibly, the future might hold something like a draft or something like that in order for what Brian has in mind to come to life. However, sponsorship is the name of the game at present and with the sport getting more and more expensive, getting that one good sponsor is getting harder and harder. I know that if I'm a big corporate boss wanting to get involved with NASCAR, I sure as hell would want to be involved with what I KNOW is a winning operation.

I have never liked multicar teams, even two, but I do understand why they are successful. Running two teams or more doesn't cost two or more times what it costs to run only one team, but of course, the cost is considerably more than just the one. Even teams that consolidate engine building are saving money albeit making bigger gains with the product. With all that in mind, and I'm sure the Brain has thought of all this, he will have to come up with some pretty good rules that can't be side-stepped. It's going to be interesting to see just how he is going to try and accomplish this feat.
 
One thing is chrystal clear here and that is the Brian France wants very much to have a minority team, mainly black, come into the sport with some success.

Then maybe he should look at stopping the boys from punting Bill Lester and the women folk into the wall every chance they get. If others see Lester and the ladies being treated better then they might give it a try...
 
buckaroo said:
Actually, there already exists such a rule. Unless they have changed the rule, the current rule is that no one person can own more than two teams. That's why in the past you would hear the likes of drivers for the #25 car say thanks to Papa Hendrick and so on. On paper, Rick Hendrick is the sole owner of cars #5 and #24. Papa owns the #25 and the #48 is co-owned by Rick and Jeffy. That's just an example and the in the same way, the Roush teams are owned by more than one intity. This is something that is a normal practice all around the country and it probably has more to do with finances than actual race practice, but allowing those teams to colaborate with one another ended up being such a huge advantage. The problem for NASCAR will be finding away to prevent such things happening again, and I'm not sure they will be able to do that.

BTW, France also wants to do away with such big engine programs such as the Roush/Yates deal. Looks to me that what they are really trying to do is to limit Jack Roush.

NASCAR has NO such rule limiting the # of teams an owner can have. The 2 car rule is by different sponsors of the Winners Circle program and other contingency sponsors that pay out cash as part of the prize funds.

I think one of the things being over looked is Brian also said they'd have to work with their lawyers to see exactly what they could do.

The point being "IF" they tried to control the teams by limiting the # of cars,
"IF" a team/ proporty owner could lease space on their property to another team,
"IF" they tried to control where teams bought their chassis, motors, had bodies hung etc. ( as long as the quality met NASCAR standards)
"IF" teams could work cooperativly to aquire sponsorship,
"IF" teams could sub work to other teams that had specialty equipment,
Etc, Etc, Etc.

This would be opening a legal black hole for NASCAR as the structure of opporation remains as it is now. Remember ALL team owners are independent business owners and sub-contract services to NASCAR. NASCAR can in NO way mandate or control how a business opporates off the race track of a sanctioned event.

Funny how so many posting to this thread saying NASCAR needs to do this are also the same ones that claim NASCAR is a monopoly and should be broken up. The fact is if NASCAR tries to control teams in this manor they could be crossing those lines.

If NASCAR's intent is truly to help the smaller teams as they say, and not to punish success of certain owners there are a couple of big things they could do.

#1 (already in discussion) limiting testing by picking 6 tracks and have 2 day tests by each mfg. for ALL teams of that mfg. and for the Mfg. to share data equally amoung their teams weither a 1 car team or a 5 car team. As already stated, Goodyear would be at and support each test also.
NASCAR can not stop teams from private testing at non sanctioned tracks, but with this tire leasing program it will stop them from testing with current tire compounds from Goodyear.

#2 Do away with the top 35 locked in to a starting spot. Go fast or go home, simple as that. If a big money team don't make the show, to bad, go home and explain to your sponsor why teams with a fraction of your resources beat you.
It sure works well in the NHRA and the sponsors haven't all pulled out as many would lead you to believe.
 
Anyone who thinks this isn't about Jack Roush is sadly mistaken. NASCAR knows Roush Racing is kicking everybody elses butt.
Here's a small excerpt from SpeedTV.com...


"Jack Roush has absolutely played by the rules," Helton insisted. "He's done everything correctly. He's done it well, and he's done it the most efficient as anybody out there and he's showing signs of success from it. We've got no problem with that.

"The problem is what the future of the sport is going to look like if that is the trend. If you have to have that kind of elites, so to speak, what happens to the rest of our community, and can and can not get into the sport because of that.

"We don't care if Jack's got five, six, 10 cars if it were good for the sport. But we don't think it's good for the sport, and we have to address that, and that's a big move for us."
 
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