NASCAR vs IRL vs CART.

D

DE Wrangler 2

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For the last hour of so I was searching for some statistics where it states just how fans are distributed among all the most popular racing venues..........as usual I was unsuccessful in my attempt (I really need to learn how to do that!!:) ). However, I found this article while browsing different sites.

It seems we occasionally have a recurring argument about which style of racing is more competitive or better or something to that effect.......us rough around the edges NASCAR fans aren't real race fans or us snooty open wheelers are not tough enough to race real cars!:) Anyway, I read this article and found it rather interesting.........and sort of answered a little of the questions I have concerning this continuing discussion.:D

Since I have digital cable now and can watch Speed Channel I will probably being watching more open wheel in the future, even though about 10 years ago I tried that and couldn't get very interested. Things change so maybe I will get into it this time.......wish I knew some of the drivers though!:)

By the way.......you can see by the date of the article it is not a new report.



Scorecard

Posted: Tuesday May 21, 2002 5:54 PM


A New Direction

The Indy 500, along with all of open-wheel racing, has been skidding for years. Here's how it can get back on track

By Mark Bechtel

In its heyday in the 1970s, the Indianapolis 500 was contested during the day but not shown on television until prime time, meaning racing fans spent Sunday afternoon strenuously avoiding a TV or radio, lest their enjoyment of the broadcast be ruined. And, man, was that broadcast enjoyable: Since there was no school the next day, Memorial Day, you could stay up to watch A.J. Foyt and Rick Mears battle all the way to the checkered flag, your regular bedtime be damned.

Today you can still watch Foyt and Mears rub tires over the holiday weekend, but you've got to do it in North Carolina. Larry Foyt (A.J.'s son) and Casey Mears (Rick's nephew) will race in the NASCAR Busch series in Charlotte this Saturday. As for the action at the Brickyard? Well, people will still avoid Sunday's race results, but that's because they just don't care anymore.

In the past 10 years television ratings for the Indy 500 have dropped by nearly half, while viewership for NASCAR's marquee event, the Daytona 500, has steadily risen. In that time NASCAR has developed a galaxy of stars: Jeff Gordon pulls in some $10 million a year in endorsements; Dale Earnhardt Jr. has published a New York Times best-seller. Open-wheel hasn't produced a celebrity in decades. While overflow crowds attend most NASCAR races, the Indy 500 is the only tough ticket among the 25 CART and IRL races in the U.S. each year. "As NASCAR was getting its legs underneath it, open-wheel racing went into dismay," says driver John Andretti, who left CART for NASCAR in 1994.

The "dismay" Andretti is speaking of stems from the Great Schism of 1996, when Indianapolis Motor Speedway chairman Tony George broke from CART to start the rival IRL. The split makes an easy scapegoat, but blaming that alone is simplistic. The divide didn't have to be as damaging as it was. "There was room for both," says Andretti. "But the perception that was placed out there was that it created two lesser series."

That perception came largely from the organizations' sniping, but in fact it's not each other the open-wheelers should be keeping an eye on -- it's the folks at NASCAR. Here are a few tips that could go a long way to getting the Indy cars back in gear.

Define yourselves. The IRL races only on ovals, while CART is becoming, in the words of car owner Bobby Rahal, "a de facto road-racing series." To help strengthen each series' identity, CART should stick to the roads and only come onto the oval for the Indy 500.

Hype, hype, hype the split. A slew of top-rated CART drivers will be in Sunday's Indy 500, yet you wouldn't know it from watching ads for the race, which inanely focus on the grandeur of the event, not the guys driving in it. If NASCAR were handling the race, we'd be hit with commercials in which an IRL driver threatens to open a can of whup ass on any CART boy who tries to take over his turf. That's the kind of plot line fans respond to.

Promote the drivers. Open-wheelers cling to the quaint belief that they'll attract fans because the racing is more exciting than NASCAR's. The racing is better, but if no one cares who's driving the cars, no one's going to watch. All those NASCAR fans in Earnhardt Jr. shirts don't love the way his Chevy runs; they love the guy behind the wheel. Meanwhile, CART and IRL have never built an ad campaign around a driver. Why not consider CART's charismatic Kenny Brack, who won Indy in 1999 and is also a smoking guitar player?

Gentlemen, start your p.r. machines.

Issue date: May 27, 2002


Another long post........sorry!:)
 
Who cares about the drivers? I'm not watching the WWF, I'm watching a motorsport.

It's easier for a fan of CART, F1 or IRL to enjoy NASCAR because they know about racing and can watch the actual racing. Whereas it's hard for a NASCAR fan to watch anything else because they know little about motorsports and really only care about the person behind the wheel.

The actual racing has very little to do with the majority of NASCAR fan's appreciation of the sport.

And I love NASCAR...so put that in your pipe and smoke it. :)
 
Okay.........I'm smoking it!:D I don't like the WWE part either, but that comparsion is a little weak anyway. Occasionally we do get some of that prancing a dancing stuff (Ward's little bootie toss, or Kurt's fanny tapping) but for the most part it's serious racing. It's a different style........doesn't make one better or more competitive than the other. I happen to like it.......and the open wheel style has not appealed to me in the past. Makes me less of a race fan?:) If so.........guess I'm guilty as charged.:D
 
so put that in your pipe and smoke it.




I wish De would start smoking his pipe again.........he stopped there for a bit......like it better then the cigs..YUCK.........:D :D
 
im a huge nascar fan and always try to catch irl at texas and michigan, they put on good shows
 
I live and breathe NASCAR. Not just my favorite driver, but the sport all together.. I love the mechanical side to it.
 
I'll join this fray if you don't mind. First off, let me just say that I'm a fan of racing, any kind, but it must be motorized. Tried the horses, the there's a lot of cheating going on there. Every kind of racing has the same goal, and that is to be the first to the finish line. And at every form of racing, you will find the best that can drive that type of vehicle, be it motorcycles or swamp buggies. The people racing these vehicles normally get started because of where they are located or family or something like that. The popularity of a certain series depends on how well it's distributed to the fans. Before it was CART, it was USAC and as it is today, there are many different series in USAC just as there are in NASCAR. USAC became pretty big in the 60's and 70's and the then the big time USAC drivers/owners, decided to split and thus began CART. About that time, NASCAR's Winston Cup series began to make headway with ESPN showing more and more races on TV. That helped the popularity of NASCAR and the split between CART and USAC only drained fan loyalty for that bunch. I don't think that F1 has ever had a huge following in the US, but you all know how popular it is everywhere else in the world. As I said before, it's all in what you get used to. I once said that if you were in an area that you could never see an NFL game or a college football game, you could become a huge high school football fan, and there are people out there who do prefer hs football to the pro game. In closing, before you say that one type of racing or series is not as good as another, watch it first and no only watch it, but get into it. Study everything about it as you do with NASCAR and then state your preferences. I dare say that you will come away with a completely different opinion. It's a whole different ball game out there.
 
It seems everybody says that open wheel racing is so good but when I watch (not every race) the racing seems dull. Who knows, maybe I just happen to see a boring race...every time. NASCAR has plenty of boring races too. I just don't want to research another series when I'm trying to find information about NASCAR, which I seem to never get enough. I guess I need to watch and get into more before I say negative things about another series then.
 
That's pretty much the way I feel, Buck. And I've watched other series. USAC, CART and Sprint cars........but just couldn't get into it. Mostly, it was some impatience on my part since I didn't know any of the drivers and didn't stick with it long enough to get to know any of them. I can sit and watch most any racing but it's more fun when you get to watching a certain driver or team.....so, to be honest, I have to admit that I'm not really open minded enough to judge any of the other series. But, because of that, does that make me a non racing fan?:) That's the only problem I have when these discussions come up.......because most NASCAR fans are to some extent much like me, we are real race fans.:)
 
Originally posted by buckaroo
In closing, before you say that one type of racing or series is not as good as another, watch it first and no only watch it, but get into it.  Study everything about it as you do with NASCAR and then state your preferences.  I dare say that you will come away with a completely different opinion.  It's a whole different ball game out there.

That is exactly what I did with the IRL, studied it and joined in alot of IRL talk in chat rooms and message boards. Now I am a huge supporter of the IRL.


That was well put. I agree you must watch a few races of the IRL to really get the good stories and drivers. Not only watch the IRL go to message boards about the IRL(PM me and i will tell you a great one, which got me hooked to the IRL).

I want some of you that don't like the IRL or those that don't watch the IRL to pay attension to the IRL from now untill the Indy 500 and tell me what you think of it. If you seriuosly want to get to know the IRL tell me and I will send you a link to that IRL message board. I don't want to get in trouble so I ask for you to send me a PM for it. There is alot of really smart IRL fans there as well as a few drivers and crewmen. Plus perople who work at IMS post there as well, a great place to ask questions.


Now for cart, i thought it was dead in the summer and so did alot of the true CART fans. But now I think CART will last a few more years.
 
I forgot to put somethings

I am a NASCAR fan first but the racing in the IRL is the best.
I am slowly getting to know some of the drivers and some of the teams. If you don't know what teams to root for in the start go with the good ones such as Penske(Gil DeFeren, Heilo Castroneves), and Pennzoil Panther ( Sam Hornish). If you like under dogs go for Dryer& Rynbold(sp)( Robbie Buhl, Sarah Fisher) or Red Bull team Chevaer( Eddie Cheaver, Buddie Rice)

Please don't get the fantasitc IRL, and the 200 mph parade CART confused. CART's reputaion hurts that of the IRL.
 
lol...dude CART whoops the IRL's ass so hard it hurts ME to sit down. ;)

I love the IRL too.
 
DEW, over the years, I've gotten involved with so many different types of racing that I began to think that I was raced out. Now days, with the internet and all, you really can get an overload if you try. I'm always trying to get the wife to try something different (racing, get your mind out of the gutter) but she tells me that she doesn't know any of the drivers and so she can't get into it. I say that you have to watch it more than once to get to the point you like it. I wanted her to go with me to the local track and finally she agreed, but it was because one of her fellow nurses would be there. Well, let's just say now that she would rather watch those races than any other if she had to pick. When I watch a new series, I try to see who is different, quick and aggressive and watch them. Usually, you will find the star somewhere in that bunch and that's where all the action will be. Later, I can find out more of the personalities of those drivers and that will help me choose a fav. But you gotta go into it with an open mind. But hey, if you don't want to, that's okay as well. Besides, Winston Cup racing is almost an all consuming sport now days. Good thing there is an off season! :)
 
No offence paul but what the H3LL you smoking???

Have you ever watched an IRL race then watch a CART race.

The IRL runs 2-4 wide most of the time at every track but Indy. plus 5 or 6 races this year have been photo finishes.
In Michigan this year the IRL had about 8 drivers battlign for the win from the start to the finish and they all lead laps and it seemed that not any driver lead more than 4 laps at one time. Plus the IRL guys and Gal actually bang wheels to sidepods, and get away with it most of the time.

Now for CART they run a high speed pardae. For a fact this season in CART there was not one pass for the lead on track, NOT A ONE. All passes for the lead came in the pits. How in the world could CART whoops the IRL's ass when they never even had a pass for the lead on the track. Heck the IRL's most boring race of 2002 was the Indy 500 and they had a bunch of passes on track for the lead.

I do watch cart and follow it but, it sucks compared to the IRL
 
Thisi is a good discusion lets keep it going!!

I am surprised that knowone wants that other site, I thought DEW and possibly Buck would want it.
 
I love all forms of auto racing, I would watch lawnmowers race right now if I could. When I was staying in a hotel that had Speed I stayed up all night watching those rally races. No banging, but those guys take it to the edge every single corner and I love seeing cars on the edge.
 
Originally posted by PettyBenson4510
Thisi is a good discusion lets keep it going!!

I am surprised that knowone wants that other site, I thought DEW and possibly Buck would want it.


Why would you think that? I've never said anything negative about IRL, CART or F1. I have admitted that NASCAR is my favorite.........nothing to hide there. I know very little about those series.......mostly because I just don't have an interest. I do take exception to the implied idea that because I don't keep up with (and for the most part, don't even watch) those series that that somehow makes me not a true race fan. That was my point of doing that search to begin with.......I didn't find what I was looking for but I did find that article. I thought it was interesting and thought someone else here would too. It was not posted to get into a big "what's the best series" or "who are the best fans" thing.

True, I am on the NASCAR side (if you want to put us on teams or something).........but only because that is the series I watch, know a little about, have favorites and love. But, I have absolutely no problems with any other series.....one is not necessarily better than the other. It's personal preference.
 
Originally posted by paul
lol...dude CART whoops the IRL's ass so hard it hurts ME to sit down. ;)

I love the IRL too.

Amen...I like the IRL for the sheer entertainment of it but it basically open-wheel restrictor plate racing. The real drivers are in CART. The IRL schedule does not reward driver skill like the CART schedule does, so the Hornish (although he definately is fearless) beating team Penske argument is not aplicable. Put Hornish in CART and we'll see how he does.

The recent parity in NASCAR is unparalleled. Up until this past season, CART had alot of parity as well. IRL has the most fantastic finishes. And for the sheer fun of seeing the most expensive, high-tech machines int he world, you have F1. We're also forgetting about WoO...
 
DEW what i ment was it sounded like you wree open to learn about the seris. Thats what i ment about that, sorry to have confused you.
 
No problem pettybenson.........guess my post did sound a little harsh after I reread it today. I wasn't upset.......just didn't want to get into any "what is best" thing about it.!!:)
 
PB, don't know why you might think that I'd take the other side, but that's okay. I'm a real race fan like the rest of us here. :) The funny thing about all of this is if you go out and ask the guys who drive those machines who is best, you might be surprised as to what you hear, except of course when you ask an F1 driver. :) Here's something that I thought was interesting though. Back when NASCAR first announced they were going to race at the Brickyard, there were many current and former CART drivers who felt that all they needed to do was secure a ride in one of those heavy cars and they would show the way. Afterall, they knew that track better than any of those sedan drivers and could whup up on em. Right! Few of them made it and they didn't make all that great of a show. My point is that while a driver might be great in one series, put him in another type of car and it is all different.
 
The IRL has the best actual racing out there right now. Close finishes, 2,3,4 car packs RACING. CART is but a shadow of its former self,and NASCAR is quickly becoming the same. I watch NHRA, WWo. USAC sprints. If it has horsepower I'll watch it.
 
be9---said....

The IRL has the best actual racing out there right now. Close finishes, 2,3,4 car packs RACING. CART is but a shadow of its former self,and NASCAR is quickly becoming the same. I watch NHRA, WWo. USAC sprints. If it has horsepower I'll watch it.
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AND---may I Add---I couldn't agree with you more...!! Take "Texas Motor Speedway" as an example... When they brought the IRL cars to Texas the First year---you couldn't give away your Tickets to anyone.. NOW--they are in HIGH DEMAND---because Fans has learned--of the 3-wide---wheel to wheel--220 mph racing--packs of 11-13 cars--that you could throw a blanket over...lap after lap after lap... If you don't enjoy this type of Raceing---(In My Opinion)--you can't call yourself a "RACEing-fan".. Fact is---((again--in MY Opinion--)) IRL--has "moved ahead" of Nascar--when it comes to Raceing... Most "Cup" races has become---""Follow the Leader""--until the last 25-30 laps--then we see who we can take out".. Those that i do not attend--but watch on TV---i feel--you can watch a Movie--and come back in a couple of hours--and see the White Flag lap--and you haven't missed anything..""... ""Short Tracks"---different deal.. Don't run to the Fridge for a Dr Pepper--Buddy... You'll have to watch the Replay.!!:D
 
Cars running in big packs, side by side, everyone wide open, isn't necessarily "real racing." It may be entertaining, but I don't consider it real racing.
 
The best cars, with the best setups, running up front, not 20 cars running together equlaized by aero and downforce rules.
 
...and bare in mind, this is just my opinion. I do not fault anyone for seeing things differently.
 
NASCAR's restictor plates races...yes. I don't really mind the follow the leader stuff that takes place at the cookie cutter tracks.
 
I do think the NASCAR's cars are too areo dependant everywhere though. They need to get rid of some of the downforce, but we've been down this road before...
 
I know how to fix all NASCAR's problems with aero junk. Get rid of all the cookie cutter and restrictor plate tracks. Run only short tracks; where the racing is actually good.
 
I have watched Indy type cars since iwas a little kid, grew up watching the old modified coupes at Stafford and Thompson. There have been great improvements in the IRL, some of the races i watched this past year were great. As for CART...1 word Boring! they need to get off the road and city circuits, fans want to see close exciting races like the IRL. F1, while i really am fascinated by all the technology and occassionaly watch a race, is also boring. Very seldom do you see side by side racing,actually almost never except at the start of a race. To me racing really is going to my local track here in Colorado and watching my favorite driver rub fenders with my buddies favorite driver. I'll take the 3/8,1/2,5/8 mile saturday night racing over all the other stuff. I'm and avid race fan too, when i can't watch Nascar i go through withdrawls, i'll search anywhere on the tube for some kind of racing.
 
That's probably the opinion most American race fans have. If they aren't going in a circle they don't watch it.
 
Originally posted by paul
That's probably the opinion most American race fans have.  If they aren't going in a circle they don't watch it.


Guess I'm in the majority then.:D Though I do watch the road courses......just not my favorite.:) And those straight line races...........whew!!:headshake


But, I'm still not saying any style is better than the other....it's personal preference.:)
 
Originally posted by paul
That's probably the opinion most American race fans have.  If they aren't going in a circle they don't watch it.

Maybe thats because that kind of racing in the most popular here and there are more circle tracks than road courses.
 
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