NASCAR wary of abandoning carburetors

[PureDeathRacing]

To be brutally honest, NASCAR engines are ancient. They're V-8s, they displace 358 cubic inches and carry a Holley four-barrel carburetor. You'll lose most of an afternoon looking for that combination at a local dealership.
But NASCAR loves its carburetors. They're relatively inexpensive, easy to police (ask Rusty Wallace) and almost bulletproof. So why all the sudden hoopla about switching from carburetors to electronic fuel injection?

"I think manufacturers want to see us using what they're building for showrooms," said Winston Cup owner and noted engine-builder Robert Yates. "It might come down to them saying, 'We want to support this sport, but we want it to use what we're building.' I don't think NASCAR would have a problem looking at fuel injection if the manufacturers said that."

There's talk that Detroit wants fuel-injected, 4.6-litre, (about 280 CID), dual overhead cam engines within several years. That blends nicely into when Toyota expects to be in the Busch Series, en route to Cup. But while Yates feels NASCAR should follow Detroit's lead, others aren't so sure.

"Why mess with what we have?" said Leonard Wood of the Wood Brothers team. "Carburetors are easy to work on, they get the job done and they're available. Why change the fuel-flow system unless you're burning pistons or blowing a lot of engines? I think what we have is fine."

Why? Because in theory, NASCAR could control RPMs, fuel-mileage and horsepower with the electronic control module that runs fuel injection. If it can control that, it can control speed, which might solve the problem of jammed-up packs at Daytona and Talladega.

To noted engine-builder Randy Dorton, that control issue poses a question: "What part of the module would they program and control? That ECM would give them a lot of power. But we could predict mileage and significantly improve durability with fuel injection. That's a big plus."

The ASA uses fuel injection on its "crate motors." Teams have an ECM for testing and engine tuning, but get an ASA-issued module for races.

"Generally speaking, people are pretty positive about fuel injection in our series," said ASA owner/driver Danny Edwards Jr. "There are always skeptics who think one ECM is better than another, but I think it's on the level. They randomly hand out ECMs at the qualifying draw.

"In Cup, though, big-budget teams with enough people and enough money might be able to circumvent the electronics. NASCAR needs to be sure its people are good enough to catch whatever the teams are doing."

That's something NASCAR tech wizard Gary Nelson thinks about constantly. He worries that the electronics in ECMs might disguise traction control.

"The ECM codes can be programmed to do things other than fuel flow," he said. "The hurdle is, if you have an ECM that can be programmed, how in the world do you inspect it? And how do you keep someone from programming that module to deliver an unfair advantage?

"I have friends in Formula-One who've wrestled with that for years. They don't have an answer, so we've been worrying about that. It's 100 times harder to make sure the ECM isn't doing something it shouldn't do than it is to check a carburetor."

As for NASCAR's obsessive fear of traction control, "All cars have traction control," Nelson said. "On a carburetor car, it's the driver's foot. On a fuel injection car, it's that processor."

 

[NateDogg]

hey PureDeath check this thread out in drag racing fourm Might find it interesting.

Now I am the type that wished they never left he 427cid, but just like Iraq, its going down. I wouldn't mind 4 valve per cylinder engines, ever since windsor stated their nutty flow rates, which they conist of having basically double the rates. Keep the carbs though. EFI will cost a pretty penny. Coming from a computer science major, there is going to be hidden mapping curves inside that thing and who knows what else really, like traction control. Performance chips on the market now that are 100 hose gains or so, you rally think they are legal? by means of meeting epa standards? I don't think so, simply two settings, 1 for the first 5 or so min, to pass the tests, the after, hold on because it will kick in. Right now, I would be really suprised if Nascar went to EFI, give them some years though to work it out.

 

[racerx11]

I wouldn't mind seeing fuel injection in NASCAR. They have to have some component from the manufacturer. Why not the engine? All the manufacturers have a V6 that they could use.

As for traction control, If you are that bad a driver that you have to rely on tc, the chances are you will not be in NASCAR.

 

[Hayakatsu]

If I may say, and Im not a fan of the series by any means, but as far as technology goes, IMO NASCAR is VERY advanced. When you see a 360ci or so engine rev to 9500rpm+ for horus on end, you have some technology in there. If you read what some NASCAR engineers and designers report on other boards Im affiliated with, you'd be quite amazed. Cylinder head design, material use etc. etc. Think about it, when you have a series so restricted and governed as NASCAR, you have to think in terms of thousanths of a second. That requires very, very precise development. Like if you make a head flow 2 cfm more per port, you may have just won the next few races. If NASCAR was simple you would not have 3 or 4 teams doing all the winning while the rest follow around killing each other for a top 10.

However I do agree switching to EFI would be great. I cant imagine the progress and development work that would come from it. The biggest proiblem would be the power jumps and thus speed increase. Though it wouldnt be overly dramatic, it would bve enough considering how relativly unsafe the chassis are. And a new engine size rule would be way too much for the engine builders (you'd get a very large decrease in competition, ala F-1 style but not nearly as bad) as most engine builders dont have the technology and equipment to build a successful all new engine like a Yates or a Rouch for example does. The little guys would be left behind. Restrictor plates suck, they really take away from the fun of designing so that wouldnt be a good alternative either.

Mark my words, one day NASCAR will get too fast and die when new regs have to be brought in. No way they can keep the competition/entertainment as close now, then.

 

[Oldgoat]

I think the Yates is pretty much correct. Nascar is still back in the 60's and is afraid to advance. I am sure that the teams would find some way to add TC or something like it, but by most accounts they already have a version of it now anyway. Either way Nascar should adjust to the smaller engine and F.I. and the sooner the better. I guess that Woods is for comfortable with a carb, but how simple is it if teams are spending a fortune on RP carbs and engines. You would have a more viable product to the manf. and public if you started to make the change. The longer they wait the harder and more $$$ it is going to cost.