NASCAR's attendance in decline

dpkimmel2001 said:
A wash? I don't know. I think overall it is probably cheaper for me to stay in my RV at the tracks that I go to but I still have to pay for the gas, food, camping spot, on & on. It's still a huge expense. I don't travel with a bunch of guys pitching in on all of those things. I travel as a family. We pull over to whiz. You can't generalize the NASCAR weekend for everyone attending. Again, while you laugh at those of us concerned about gas prices being a factor for our trips/vacations it's a hit to some of us. Sure, I could get by sharing the cost of a trip if I attended races differently but that's not an option for me and many others out here.
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Im with you DP, since we sold our rv we have found out all about price gouging within 50 miles of any track during race week. In an rv you bring all of the essentials bought at normal prices and usually spend money only on driver or track merchandise and the occasional snack and of course beer at the tracks that still refuse to let you bring a cooler in. My truck gets 22 mpg average normally but pulling the trailer I am in the process of buying I expect that to drop to about 13 or 14. Check the rooms available within 30 miles of any race, they go from $60 or $70 on an off weekend to $180 plus on a race weekend plus the food and other essentials are outrageously priced. I save some by rv'ing but the big draw is the infield or trackside socializing.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
street races in New York City
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I will never, ever, live to see this day. Traffic here is horrible enough. There is no chance in hell something like this would ever be passed. The uproar would be tremendous. They actually tried to build a track in Staten Island(1 of the 5 boroughs of NYC) and it got shut down by everyone as well.
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
I will never, ever, live to see this day. Traffic here is horrible enough. There is no chance in hell something like this would ever be passed. The uproar would be tremendous. They actually tried to build a track in Staten Island(1 of the 5 boroughs of NYC) and it got shut down by everyone as well.
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You never know. I never thought Baltimore would happen, especially after the lightning fast demise of the National Grand Prix of Washington, DC.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
You never know. I never thought Baltimore would happen, especially after the lightning fast demise of the National Grand Prix of Washington, DC.
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I'd love to see it happen and I'd be the first one to be getting tickets. This is a huge pipe dream but Central Park would be an awesome place to have a race without tying up the streets of the city and that would take away a lot of the public outcry about the traffic. It has plenty of hills and turns, it would be sweet.

I also figure that if F1 couldn't get anything done here and had to settle for New Jersey with NYC in the background that nascar won't have much success either. Nascar isn't very popular here from what I've seen and heard and I've lived here all my life. I don't have any friends who are into nascar here. I rarely ever see anyone walking around with nascar gear on either.
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
I'd love to see it happen and I'd be the first one to be getting tickets. This is a huge pipe dream but Central Park would be an awesome place to have a race without tying up the streets of the city and that would take away a lot of the public outcry about the traffic. It has plenty of hills and turns, it would be sweet.

I also figure that if F1 couldn't get anything done here and had to settle for New Jersey with NYC in the background that nascar won't have much success either. Nascar isn't very popular here from what I've seen and heard and I've lived here all my life. I don't have any friends who are into nascar here. I rarely ever see anyone walking around with nascar gear on either.
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I'd be surprised if the New Jersey F1 race actually happened. That's not one I support. The fat man has more pressing issues to deal with.
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
I'll probably be going next year, they had Vettel come out last month and do a run of the course. Why don't you support it?
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Vettel also said that the course was no where near ready and Eccelstone doesn't believe it'll be ready, although event organizers claim that they're ahead of schedule :confused:
 
#17D500winner said:
Vettel also said that the course was no where near ready and Eccelstone doesn't believe it'll be ready, although event organizers claim that they're ahead of schedule :confused:
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Could be the international date line, but that doesn't sound good.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Because I have no idea where Chris Christie has $25+ million or is going to get it from.
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#17D500winner said:
Vettel also said that the course was no where near ready and Eccelstone doesn't believe it'll be ready, although event organizers claim that they're ahead of schedule :confused:
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Ah, I haven't really been following the news that much about it. I would like to see it here but with the prices of f1 tickets I won't really care if it doesn't happen.

My dad went to the CART race back in the Meadowlands(around giants/jets) stadium back in the 80s. They built this huge stupid mall that has been a finical disaster and hasn't opened yet. I'd love to see them knock that down and knock down the Izod Center(where the Devils/Nets) use to play and build a nascar track there.

I just want to be selfish and not have to drive over 3 hours to a track lol

apparently they started working on a parking facility that will house the race cars...

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/07/new_jerseys_gold_coast_prepare.html
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
Ah, I haven't really been following the news that much about it. I would like to see it here but with the prices of f1 tickets I won't really care if it doesn't happen.

My dad went to the CART race back in the Meadowlands(around giants/jets) stadium back in the 80s. They built this huge stupid mall that has been a finical disaster and hasn't opened yet. I'd love to see them knock that down and knock down the Izod Center(where the Devils/Nets) use to play and build a nascar track there.

I just want to be selfish and not have to drive over 3 hours to a track lol

apparently they started working on a parking facility that will house the race cars...

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/07/new_jerseys_gold_coast_prepare.html
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New Jersey is losing jobs left and right. So, Chris Christie's brilliant idea is to have an F1 race and then lay off teachers and cut teacher pay, while calling people idiots? The fat man has more important problems to deal with.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
New Jersey is losing jobs left and right. So, Chris Christie's brilliant idea is to have an F1 race and then lay off teachers and cut teacher pay, while calling people idiots? The fat man has more important problems to deal with.
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I'll be honest I don't follow much of what goes on in New Jersey politics. I have Nanny Bloomberg telling me what size soda I can't drink, that's enough politics for me.

I will say this though, if the race does happen, I will be taking public transportation to get there because there is no way they are going to be able to fit all these people who want to drive. I'll be saving myself a headache and gas money and just get on the train.
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
I'll be honest I don't follow much of what goes on in New Jersey politics. I have Nanny Bloomberg telling me what size soda I can't drink, that's enough politics for me.

I will say this though, if the race does happen, I will be taking public transportation to get there because there is no way they are going to be able to fit all these people who want to drive. I'll be saving myself a headache and gas money and just get on the train.
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Yeah, I'd love to have some bureaucrat tell me what I can and can't eat or drink. :sarcasm:
 
FenderBumper said:
Are you a storage wars fan? ;)
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Nope, I just like one word responses that get my point across, burp= BS or strongly disagree, yup= strongly agree, huh= WTF. In my permanent scrambled state of mind I also think they are mildly amusing and my amusement is why I log on here.
 
Johali said:
Nope, I just like one word responses that get my point across, burp= BS or strongly disagree, yup= strongly agree, huh= WTF. In my permanent scrambled state of mind I also think they are mildly amusing and my amusement is why I log on here.
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K
 
Johali said:
Nope, I just like one word responses that get my point across, burp= BS or strongly disagree, yup= strongly agree, huh= WTF. In my permanent scrambled state of mind I also think they are mildly amusing and my amusement is why I log on here.
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Really? In log on because I'm the board whisperer. Well, that and Fender also forces me into it.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
A wash? I don't know. I think overall it is probably cheaper for me to stay in my RV at the tracks that I go to but I still have to pay for the gas, food, camping spot, on & on. It's still a huge expense. I don't travel with a bunch of guys pitching in on all of those things. I travel as a family. We pull over to whiz. You can't generalize the NASCAR weekend for everyone attending. Again, while you laugh at those of us concerned about gas prices being a factor for our trips/vacations it's a hit to some of us. Sure, I could get by sharing the cost of a trip if I attended races differently but that's not an option for me and many others out here.
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You do have the initial purchase cost plus maintenance, ins etc. You don't have the inflated lodging, resturant costs. Your fuel costs per day may equal my lodging and food. That's why I said a wash.
My comment about people not going on vacation due to gas costs was my point. Saying they're not going on a 2-400 mile car trip due to the cost of gas,,I'm not buying it,

Still doesn't answer why TV viewership is down.
 
Viewership is down partly because of time shifting. People sit around on a Sunday and watch the Pawn Stars, Storage Wars, Deadliest Catch, etc that they recorded during the week. It all adds up. Hell, other than NASCAR I never watch shows at their normal broadcast time. I time shift everything. It's great.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Viewership is down partly because of time shifting. People sit around on a Sunday and watch the Pawn Stars, Storage Wars, Deadliest Catch, etc that they recorded during the week. It all adds up. Hell, other than NASCAR I never watch shows at their normal broadcast time. I time shift everything. It's great.
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DVR viewing and time shifting accounts for 8-10% of total television viewers.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
DVR viewing and time shifting accounts for 8-10% of total television viewers.
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I think it may be quite a bit higher now due to more and more people getting DVR's every day. But 10% is a huge number. And Sunday would seem to be a prime day for many to watch what they recorded earlier in the week. It all adds up.
 
FenderBumper said:
IMO, Web based DVR's along with tighter DRM will begin to end commercial skipping in the next few years.
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Yep. But NASCAR's going to have to become more open minded about the wide open and side-by-side telecast formats. I don't think commercials are turning people away yet, but if 30-35% of the telecasts being at commercials becomes the norm, I think fans will turn away in the coming years.
 
Matthew2470 said:
I think it may be quite a bit higher now due to more and more people getting DVR's every day. But 10% is a huge number. And Sunday would seem to be a prime day for many to watch what they recorded earlier in the week. It all adds up.
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The 8%-10% number is recent, from 2012. And that doesn't come close to the percentage of viewers no longer watching.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Yep. But NASCAR's going to have to become more open minded about the wide open and side-by-side telecast formats. I don't think commercials are turning people away yet, but if 30-35% of the telecasts being at commercials becomes the norm, I think fans will turn away in the coming years.
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The rising number of commercials is directly related to the declining viewership. TV pays nascar X amount to broadcast. If viewership is high, the 30 second rate charged to the advertiser go up. When ad prices rise, there are fewer customers willing to pay, but the broadcaster can make a profit with fewer ads. Since the viewer numbers are way off what they were when the broadcast contracts were negotiated, we get buried in commercials. Simple capitalism at work.

Fix the show, and the viewers will come back.
 
Matthew2470 said:
From where did you get that figure? Nielsen says that 43% of homes have a DVR. Link\

Another interesting link.
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85% of TV is still viewed live. Only 8% on DVR. http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/as-tv-screens-grow-so-does-u-s-dvr-usage/ (I hope Nielsen is an acceptable link)

I'd say mobile devices and online streaming would have a bigger impact on television ratings than DVR. But, then again, even with ESPN's races online and on mobile devices last year, their ratings were up (thanks, in part, to a manufactured epic championship battle).
 
Gotcha. So during that 11 hours per week that people are watching time shifted content I wonder how much is on Sunday.

Obviously I am not trying to solely blame time shifting for viewing declines. I just think that other than losing fans there are other factors. If DVR usage peels away 200,000 people per race that will affect the ratings a bit.
 
FenderBumper said:
IMO, Web based DVR's along with tighter DRM will begin to end commercial skipping in the next few years.
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Honestly the only time I ever watch commercials is when they do the side by side. Other then that I refuse to watch commercials. Even when I do watch live, I'll switch to something I taped on my DVR during the commercials and switch back when the race comes live.
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
Honestly the only time I ever watch commercials is when they do the side by side. Other then that I refuse to watch commercials. Even when I do watch live, I'll switch to something I taped on my DVR during the commercials and switch back when the race comes live.
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Which is why I feel the side by side makes huge sense for advertisers. If you DVR and FF, you miss part of the race. If you go to the fridge, you miss part of the race. A higher percentage of viewers will see your ad than ever before. Even when my attention was on the race, I got the ad message.
 
FenderBumper said:
Which is why I feel the side by side makes huge sense for advertisers. If you DVR and FF, you miss part of the race. If you go to the fridge, you miss part of the race. A higher percentage of viewers will see your ad than ever before. Even when my attention was on the race, I got the ad message.
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I would watch almost every race live then. If I'm not busy I will watch the Indycar races live because they use side by side. I usually start all of the nascar races about 60-90 minutes late and breeze through the races cause of fast forwarding all the commercials. I refuse to waste my time watching commercials.
 
StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
I would watch almost every race live then. If I'm not busy I will watch the Indycar races live because they use side by side. I usually start all of the nascar races about 60-90 minutes late and breeze through the races cause of fast forwarding all the commercials. I refuse to waste my time watching commercials.
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That's what I do, unless I'm on the forum. Then I just pause commercial breaks and FF after a few minutes.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Gotcha. So during that 11 hours per week that people are watching time shifted content I wonder how much is on Sunday.

Obviously I am not trying to solely blame time shifting for viewing declines. I just think that other than losing fans there are other factors. If DVR usage peels away 200,000 people per race that will affect the ratings a bit.
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For the most part, DVR is relatively new and ratings for NASCAR have fallen since 2006.

If the product is worth watching, ratings will climb. Look at last year's epic championship battle.
 
FenderBumper said:
Which is why I feel the side by side makes huge sense for advertisers. If you DVR and FF, you miss part of the race. If you go to the fridge, you miss part of the race. A higher percentage of viewers will see your ad than ever before. Even when my attention was on the race, I got the ad message.
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Yep. Not only did I not complain about commercials this weekend during Wide Open, I found myself watching them even though the race was on. Wide Open and Side-by-Side need to become the default standard for NASCAR broadcasting.
 
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