Nationwide Series in alot of trouble

wilson89

wilson89

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Just looking over the entrant list for Charlotte and 22 of the 47 cars dont have a sponsor.

Not to mention quite a number of cars that do have sponsors are limited sponsors. I can see alot of guys calling it a day very early this weekend.
 
This is what happens after letting the Cup teams run the series. They're the only ones getting the money. No business wants to shell out big bucks for a car that never gets shown on TV unless it's in a wreck.
 
Thats true. But how many of the series races are even on TV without the big names to draw the viewers? Much as I enjoy the racing, many of the newer and/or younger viewers tune in the see the big names.
 
Do people really need to see cup drivers Sat. and Sun.? And sometimes Fri.(Kyle Busch)? The stands are already empty.
 
I wonder how it would be if they weren't there? Nobody really knows because they've always been there. This argument has been going on forever. If you pull out all of the drivers that participate in Cup, I don't see how there could possibly be an increase in attendance or viewership. Oh..... and more and more of those stands are starting to become empty on Sunday's too. I don't think it has much to do with who is on the track as much as it does with what the fan has in his wallet.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I wonder how it would be if they weren't there? Nobody really knows because they've always been there. This argument has been going on forever. If you pull out all of the drivers that participate in Cup, I don't see how there could possibly be an increase in attendance or viewership. Oh..... and more and more of those stands are starting to become empty on Sunday's too. I don't think it has much to do with who is on the track as much as it does with what the fan has in his wallet.
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Very true. I'd like to think maybe, just maybe we would see some different winners if the cup drivers where not there. More viewership? I doubt it, but I would still be watching instead of changing the channel cause some cup driver is in his own zip code killing off the nationwide regs.
 
With the lack of people in the stands it couldn't hurt to pull the Cup Raiders and see what happens.
 
At one time, IIRC, Cup drivers were allowed to race in Busch in companion races if both series where at the same track on the same weekend. Done to improve Saturday's attendence.($$$$$)

But it's out of control now. When was the last time a full time NNW driver won a race? Or the championship? NNW teams can't compete with the financial advantage cup teams have.
 
NASCAR has shown us the Nationwide Series is no good without the Cup drivers. There's no turning back now.
 
SST55 said:
When was the last time a full time NNW driver won a race? Or the championship?
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Justin Allgaier is the most recent NNS regular to win a race. The last non-Cup driver to win the championship there was Martin Truex in 2005. The most recent non-Cup driver to win the title that didn't drive for a Cup owner was Jeff Green in 2000.
 
MRM said:
NASCAR has shown us the Nationwide Series is no good without the Cup drivers. There's no turning back now.
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So, basically, what I should take from this, is that the Nationwide Series, with or without this Cup Drivers/crutch, is pretty much crap.

Well, I mean, I can't say I watch it, so I can't complain from that standpoint. Maybe if it was a horse, it should be shot.
 
Yeah its nice to see a handfull of cup drivers in the race because it makes people want to tune in but when we see 10, 15, 20 and even more guys in the race on a weekly bases it begins to get old. The series is around to try and find fresh young talent and you can say they need to earn it by beating cup drivers but it ends up being a bunch of cup teams with there drivers just dominating Nationwide teams with little known drivers. Allgaier has been great this season but after him who is there? Bayne possible but who else? Steven Wallace?
 
MRM said:
This is what happens after letting the Cup teams run the series. They're the only ones getting the money. No business wants to shell out big bucks for a car that never gets shown on TV unless it's in a wreck.
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I have to disagree, Cup drivers have been winning races in the Nationwide (Busch) series since the early 80's. If your statement were true, it's taken the Cup drivers involvement in the Nationwide series 30+ years to affect sponsorship for the Nationwide-only teams. I believe that the lack of sponsorship available for Nationwide teams is simply a sign of the current economic environment.
 
BobbyFord said:
I have to disagree, Cup drivers have been winning races in the Nationwide (Busch) series since the early 80's. If your statement were true, it's taken the Cup drivers involvement in the Nationwide series 30+ years to affect sponsorship for the Nationwide-only teams. I believe that the lack of sponsorship available for Nationwide teams is simply a sign of the current economic environment.
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partially agree. there were cup drivers racing in nationwide/busch before but i don't recall there being as many of them racing on a regular basis. personally i think the nationwide races have been pretty good this year. nationwide drivers don't necessarily have to win to be noticed. if some can consistently hang with the cup guys, even without winning, they will be noticed and hopefully get a shot at cup.
 
There were Cup drivers in the series for many years.

The big difference is that they ran selected races and weren't running for a championship in both series at the same time.

I always said back when it was the Busch series that the number of Cup drivers should be limited to about 5 or 7 participants in the NW series and they should do so on a qualifying effort. In other words, if 15 Cup drivers show up, then only the 5 or 7 with the best times amongst themselves be allowed to race.

This way, you still have Cup drivers to draw the crowd but you don't force out the struggling NW teams. And even if they take the first 5 positions at the end of the race, at least the other up and coming teams and drivers get to share in some of the top 10 money.

Nascar has ruined the NW series through greed.
 
SlowNeasy said:
partially agree.... but i don't recall there being as many of them racing on a regular basis.
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I agree with S&E.

I also wonder how many teams are in the truck series simply because they feel they can at least be somewhat competitive, moreso than if they were in NNW.

Busch/NNW was intended to be a feeder series for cup. Like AAA baseball is to the majors.
 
BobbyFord said:
Cup drivers have been winning races in the Nationwide (Busch) series since the early 80's. If your statement were true, it's taken the Cup drivers involvement in the Nationwide series 30+ years to affect sponsorship for the Nationwide-only teams. I believe that the lack of sponsorship available for Nationwide teams is simply a sign of the current economic environment.
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I completely agree with your opinion on this. You hit the nail on the head.

Quick quiz.....

Anyone know who won the first Bush race held in 1982?

Ding...Ding...Ding...

Yes, that's right. It was Dale Earnhardt. And..... surprise, surprise..... He was running full time in the Cup Series that year. He along with several other drivers ran Bush races right from the beginning. Sure, it may not have been as many and you didn't have Cup drivers running for the championship but really, what does it matter? Go ahead and use some sort of sponsorship argument. What about the Cup rides? There's a lack of sponsors there as well. Heck, if Jeff Gordon is having sponsor issues then I'd be more inclined to think that the economy is playing a major role. Go ahead and use some sort of argument that these guys aren't able to display their talent when their racing with all of these Cup drivers. The people that are really concerned with any of the upcoming talent are the owners. If you guys seem to be spotting it, I'd imagine they are as well.
 
But the difference is you have several Cup guys that are also running the whole Nationwide series when that never happened before a few years ago. Because of that, sponsors are going to those teams and not to the full-time NNS teams that do not have a Cup driver. I know there has always been a number of unsponsored cars in that series. But there has never been the case where almost half the field was without a sponsor. That's the problem.
 
Simple question, where is the next wave of cup drivers going to come from? Its not going to be the Nationwide series if this continues.

I agree that there needs to be a happy medium on the cup drivers in the nationwide races, they need a few drivers here and there to race, but now if you turn on a nationwide race it seems like the top 10 are all cup drivers with better equipment than the regular Nationwide drivers. It's another aspect of NA$CAR that has changed and changed for the worst IMO.
 
Go Panthers said:
Simple question, where is the next wave of cup drivers going to come from? Its not going to be the Nationwide series if this continues.
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There's never been any kind of a limiting factor that the Cup drivers of tomorrow come from the Nationwide Series. They can come from all forms of racing just as they have and do today.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
There's never been any kind of a limiting factor that the Cup drivers of tomorrow come from the Nationwide Series. They can come from all forms of racing just as they have and do today.
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How well is that working today?Look how many drivers are competing for the Rookie Of the Year this year.1
 
While I agree that the economy has a good part to play in the lack of sponsorship, I also believe that the fact that networks have a few chosen drivers which they bombard the viewer with is a factor as well.

It's nearly impossible to get any reasonable amount of TV time if you're not either a cup driver or NW driver in a accident and then you'll only get coverage if you've been a mess with a cup guy.

Of course the NW guys who do get coverage are most likely with a one of the big cup teams who don't lack resources.

So Edwards, Bush or Harvick got 4 laps down - big deal - they're most likely out of the race for the win so let us know that and move on.
 
Go Panthers said:
Simple question, where is the next wave of cup drivers going to come from? Its not going to be the Nationwide series if this continues.
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Im looking more towards the Truck Series now for younger talent. They seem to still maintain only a handfull of cup drivers in each race. I can deal with Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Brad Kesolowski and Elliot Sadler running half the season since there basicly the only cup guys that race in Trucks and they dont run the full season so there not going to win the championship.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Anyone know who won the first Bush race held in 1982?

Ding...Ding...Ding...

Yes, that's right. It was Dale Earnhardt. And..... surprise, surprise..... He was running full time in the Cup Series that year.
Click to expand...
The is a huge difference between the two series then and now. Back then, the lower series ran 6 cylinder engines and it was a totally different game. The Busch series had plenty of drivers/owners who we dedicated to this series alone. While there would always be those that would like to move up to the Cup series, many were satisfied to stay there. Also, many of the Cup drivers were given up front money to race in the series. Sometimes NASCAR even supplied the car and sponsor. It wasn't until the turn of the century that Cup drivers began to use the lower series as a test for running on Sunday. When it became clear that those Cup drivers who raced on Saturday did much better on Sunday did we see the real growth of Cup drivers in the lower series. Then when the purses grew, more and more owners decided to race. Now the series isn't even really Cup-lite, but more Cup-extra. Owners don't even look at this series for their next star.
 
BobbyFord said:
I have to disagree, Cup drivers have been winning races in the Nationwide (Busch) series since the early 80's. If your statement were true, it's taken the Cup drivers involvement in the Nationwide series 30+ years to affect sponsorship for the Nationwide-only teams. I believe that the lack of sponsorship available for Nationwide teams is simply a sign of the current economic environment.
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They haven't been running the entire season and the entire Cup season until 2001 (Harvick).

I have no problem with Cup drivers running Nationwide, Trucks or ARCA races. I have problems with Cup drivers running the entire season in Nationwide.
 
SlowNeasy said:
partially agree. there were cup drivers racing in nationwide/busch before but i don't recall there being as many of them racing on a regular basis. personally i think the nationwide races have been pretty good this year. nationwide drivers don't necessarily have to win to be noticed. if some can consistently hang with the cup guys, even without winning, they will be noticed and hopefully get a shot at cup.
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Bull****. Nationwide drivers can win races and not have a ride the following season. Where's Stephen Leicht now? You don't see Roger Penske working on a deal to move Allgaier up to Cup, instead he's keeping Hornish's sorry ass in there.
 
I've been saying any full time Cup driver should have an 8 race limit for Nationwide. 8 races he can use whenever he wants throughout the year. That way you still have some "Names" in the race but not 10-15 in every race.
 
Stewart Fan said:
I've been saying any full time Cup driver should have an 8 race limit for Nationwide. 8 races he can use whenever he wants throughout the year. That way you still have some "Names" in the race but not 10-15 in every race.
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That and if the Cup driver is in the top 12 in Sprint Chase points, he would have to sit out an hire someone else to drive it, like maybe someone who NEEDS the seat time. I would hope.
 
No cup drivers means no sponsors, and no series. Mr France better figure out some way to turn this ship around because it
s heading for an iceberg.
 
Just wait until they run some of these standalone races next month. They'll be lucky to get a full field with some of these.
 
sloggie said:
No cup drivers means no sponsors, and no series. Mr France better figure out some way to turn this ship around because it
s heading for an iceberg.
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Well you have other series without Cup drivers and they are still going. I'm not saying they shouldn't allow Cup drivers in I'm just saying they shouldn't be able to run every race or 30 like Kyle is doing this year. Then you could have guys coming up from Arca, Cascar, USAR, ect.........
 
It seems to me that the truck series is alot more popular with people on this forum. Could it be possible that's because the truck series only has occasional visits from the cup regulars with none of them running for the title.
Kinda like the busch series used to be.
I can understand a lack of sponsorship in nationwide. why spend that kind of money to rarely get your product on tv when other sponsors are willing to spend even more on the big cup owned and operated teams running in nationwide? And we all know big money makes for better equipment, faster cars and much more experienced drivers.
 
racer8 said:
It seems to me that the truck series is alot more popular with people on this forum. Could it be possible that's because the truck series only has occasional visits from the cup regulars with none of them running for the title.
Kinda like the busch series used to be.
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Yes thats exactly why
 
If you look at the attendance for the Truck races, especially the ones that are not a companion race to the Cup series, they aren't selling very well. How this series can survive much longer has me puzzled. Nationwide is the same thing, without any of the Cup drivers there would be a lot less people in the stands and that isn't saying much because they aren't exactly breaking records at the gate. Nascar created this problem, but really what is the solution now? BTW when is the debut of the the new Nationwide cars, isn't coming up sometime this season? I would think that would create even more problems, more money to build these cars, plus I would think there would be less Cup participation. Maybe these cars might be on the drawing board for Cup too? All I know is when i see a stand alone Truck race or a Nationwide race that is not in conjunction with the Cup guys and I see the stands.......how are they making money? Nascar has to do something, but I'm not sure what the answer is. Possibly do away with Nationwide all together in the future and create a new series for development only, with a car that would be cheaper to build, and not attract Cup drivers
 
I do realize the seats in the stands aren't filling up, but the point I,m trying to make is about sponsors wanting to get TV exposure. the seats will start selling again when the economy turns around which also will help with companys spending money on sponsorship again. Either way don't eliminate cup driver from other lower series just limit them.
Just my opinion.
:beerbang::beerbang::beerbang:
 
Will companies really risk puting sponsorship money on Nationwide cars or Cup cars for that matter even if the economy picks up? Nascar has been on the down turn for some time now, before the economy tanked. Not sure that would be a wise business decision.
 
theres good and bad things about cup drivers in nationwide, I don't think any of them should run it full time, but here and there is okay with me, It is good that young guys like Bayne,Allgaier get to test themselves against the big boys and take information from them, and they will eventually get sprint cup rides. I think Keslowski should of waited one more year tried running NWS and go for the championship before making the big jump, the big name teams still have great developmental programs, RCR has Dillon waiting in the wings, MWR has Trevor Bayne and Ryan Truex, Roush has always developed drivers well, Kenseth, Biffle, Edwards all went through the ranks before getting a cup ride and now they have Colin Braun, there is still alot of young talent in Nascar, so I don't think is much too worry about
 
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