dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Yep. This is just the flavor of the moment.Pretty much proves in two weeks we'll completely forget about this and find something else to complain about.
Yep. This is just the flavor of the moment.Pretty much proves in two weeks we'll completely forget about this and find something else to complain about.
So, is it just the second place guy or do we let everyone choose which lane they want by the running order? What running position does that practice stop at? Just the second place guy? Top 10? 20? Maybe we could do a fan vote after each caution? That, sounds messed up. We'd be watching these teams take extra caution laps while the field all decide where they'd like to start.
Okay, maybe the fan vote is a bit much? Boy, I sure hope Brian or one of his cronies aren't reading this.
That is messed up when a driver wants to have a slower pit stop.
Just let him give up the undesirable lane, and start one row back in the lane he prefers. I don't get the idea that a car that is one position back is allowed to have a more desirable restarting position. The leader should have the best starting position, 2nd place should have the 2nd best position etc. If the second place car believes he is better served to start in p3 directly behind the leader he should have that right imo without any pit road shenanigans.
I just have to wonder where the heck has everyone been that they never noticed that there was an advantage in one lane or another on restarts? We've been doing this for 5 years now and it's now some sort of issue that we have to change back?
Plain and simple, single file restarts sucked. We saw year after year in the All Star race the double file restarts and liked them. Not all but most fans wanted to see them throughout the year and NASCAR did just that. We see some great racing because of it. Some tracks more than others there is a more preferred line. That's not transparent to the teams/drivers.
Some driver or drivers whine about it and all of the sudden it becomes the latest emergency in the sport. Something that has to be changed. Maybe the drivers need to quit whining about it and do something about it. Be the leader of the race when the caution comes out. Then they'll have there choice.
With 43 cars? How's that coordinated so that NASCAR can relay to the entire field where everyone would like to start after each caution comes out?True. 1st gets lane choice over 2nd, 2nd chooses before 3rd, 3rd chooses before 4th, et. You're describing lane choice for the entire field, and I agree. Small tracks do it every week and it works great.
With 43 cars? How's that coordinated so that NASCAR can relay to the entire field where everyone would like to start after each caution comes out?
I think this whole subject is ridiculous. I guess I'll just be satisfied to be in the minority on that.
With 43 cars? How's that coordinated so that NASCAR can relay to the entire field where everyone would like to start after each caution comes out?
I think this whole subject is ridiculous. I guess I'll just be satisfied to be in the minority on that.
Yep, I remember Gordon fooling around on pit road at Kansas earlier in the year to drop back a spot and get into the preferred line on the restart.My thoughts were in place prior to the Atlanta race, I have not even got to give that race my full attention yet. Worked 12 hours every day Saturday thru Tuesday and I am still catching up on the DVR.
Yep. This is just the flavor of the moment.
With 43 cars? How's that coordinated so that NASCAR can relay to the entire field where everyone would like to start after each caution comes out?
I think this whole subject is ridiculous. I guess I'll just be satisfied to be in the minority on that.
once this wonderful new chase format begins ....
......i predict all this conflict on dbl file restarts will soon disappear !
True that. I will rage if I watch a Championship season go to crap in race one or two..
Maybe they should think of that when the come out of pit roadSounds like the guy restarting 3rd gets a better shake than the guy starting 2nd.
So I've kind of been thinking about this for awhile.. but after watching the 24 passing cars in the top 10 over and over again, yet trapped two laps down waiting for an off sequence caution that happen, I've got some sh!t to say!!!
I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm not a fan of double file restarts, for a couple of reasons.....
A) a lot of tracks have a massively preferred line. Killing restart chances for either even or oddly positioned drivers... Creating a bullsh*t Brian France lottery.
C)"racing" your lap back is a whole lot more respectable than just not pitting and getting to drive around the pace car...
C) Watching leaders deal with lap cars while trying to take advantage of fresh tires is exciting. And when a fast car gets trapped he can make big moves on restarts...
I can go on but you get the point.
Thoughts?
What mattered was that everyone on the same lap started in the same line.The "old" restarts were double file too. Except cars one lap down or more started on the inside (at most tracks).
Not sure why you're against double file restarts, but then say you like to watch leaders deal with lap cars. Those leaders have to get beside the lapped cars before they can pass them.
Dealing with traffic is part of racing, including on restarts.
Restart position is not a Brian France lottery. You line up in the position that you created via passing on the track or in the pits. Mr. France has nothing to do with it.
I agree that getting your lap back via passing the leader is more respectable than taking a "wave around" or getting a "lucky dog". But they had to quit racing back to the line on cautions because it was too dangerous, and they needed to create more opportunities for teams to recover from earlier problems. I've learned to live with the "wave around" and "lucky dog", but I'd prefer a revision to the rule that says you can only get one of each during a race.
Dont you mean "bowl****"?I just found this but last year Keselowski also said double-file restarts are "bogus"
What mattered was that everyone on the same lap started in the same line.
I just found this but last year Keselowski also said double-file restarts are "bogus": http://bradracing.com/races/gobowlingcom-400/double-file-restarts-whats-big-deal
Yeah everybody on the same lap started in the same line, but the OP complained about fast cars getting trapped behind lapped cars on restarts... the old style restarts almost guaranteed that.
Restarts are one of Nascar's least type of problems.. lets fix the cars downforce and tires problem first.
I didn't get that either, but one of the other tweets is dated after the Dover race Jimmie get penalized during. Not sure about the other one.Huh? I think Brad chose the worst possible example to make his point. Kasey is leading and rolling to a win when the yellow comes out. Jeff restarts 2nd, without lane choice, and takes the lead. Next yellow comes out, Jeff has lane choice, but Kasey takes the lead. Kasey, the guy who had an 8 second lead before all this happens, wins the race.
What's the problem, Bradster?
Re: Choice cone
What happens if EVERYONE chooses one line and then some guy running in 20th says "what the hell?" and takes the less favored line in hopes of just falling in line somewhere and making up a ton of ground?
He starts on the outside of row one. I think you answered your own question.
That's part of the strategy that makes it a fun rule, though. At a place like Atlanta this week (or most of the short tracks that use this rule), being on the inside of row two is much better than the outside of row one. But what is the tradeoff between, say, inside row four and outside row one? And since it's all happening on the fly as you approach the cone, you have to make the decision based on what cars are doing right in front of you.
TV will probably never go for it, though. What do you mean we have to come back from commercial a lap early?
I didn't get that either, but one of the other tweets is dated after the Dover race Jimmie get penalized during. Not sure about the other one.
He said this after Blaney beat Busch at Bristol a couple of weeks back too:
Brad Keselowski @keselowski Aug 22
Kyle's right, double file restarts are unfair to leader, but that's the rule... @Kcape1: what are your thoughts on the last restart?
I can SEE where it might be exciting but I'm pretty sure if it were to happen, it would be bashed as a Brian France gimmick.
I'm not a fan though of the possibility that some guy running 25th can luck into a top 10 because he took a risky lane choice and got lucky when a caution came out before he got shuffled back.
If his car was that strong he would've gotten his laps back under the old system too by passing the leaders.I didn't care for the lucky dog rule but I understand the homage to the gentleman's agreement to let drivers by during a caution. Back then there was a greater disparity of equipment and giving a driver a lap back probably wasn't going to affect the race. I'm fine with the lucky dog rule now because we have all have had our favorite drivers benefit from the rule.
The worst example of the lucky dog was when Jeff Gordon got 5 laps back during a race from 5 cautions (he was the only car a lap down each time) - I think he either won the race or had a good finish.
I like Gone's suggestion that you get one lucky dog per race. I like the wave around rule.
I agree it is not the biggest problem but that doesn't mean there is no problem.Restarts are one of Nascar's least type of problems.. lets fix the cars downforce and tires problem first.
Re: Choice cone
What happens if EVERYONE chooses one line and then some guy running in 20th says "what the hell?" and takes the less favored line in hopes of just falling in line somewhere and making up a ton of ground?
I don't even care how your post applies to whatever the original topic is, I liked it because it's a cool story. Thanks for sharing!Probably something like what happened to us when we did this during a Tuesday Night Thunder Legends car race at Charlotte a few years ago.
At Charlotte during the Tuesday Night Thunder Series the cars run on a track that is part of the front stretch, part of pit road, and two connecting turns. It's flat so most drivers prefer the inside line.
They started using a "Choose" system for race restarts. This night had light rain on and off, and the track was slick.
As usual we were running near the back of mid-pack, about 14th or 15th. We had a late caution that would create a green-white-checker finish.
Everybody in front of us stayed inside. Our driver always tried the outside, but was surprised to end up on the outside front row.
He was able to hold on to finish fourth, which was our best ever.
A bunch of teams that usually beat us were upset. Even the TV announcers were surprised (saying "who is this guy?"). But everything was done per the normal rules - you snooze you lose.
A couple of those teams stayed mad at us for the rest of the season. But most of them congratulated us.
So after that long answer, in summary you are right: a back marker can get a great gift finish. It forces some drivers to take a chance or accept a lower finish. By the way, from then on more drivers took a chance on the outside too.