Newman - ROTY

Wonder why NBC couldn't have figured it out. At one point during one of their "as they stand now" things, they called it a tie with Jimmie the winner cause he had more wins.

It's like the media wants nascar to change the way it figures rookie points so they can have another Jeff. Ryan was by far the more consistant racer bringing home top tens or better 35 times.

It's Official (nascar.com)
 
Way to go Ryan. Maybe your stable mate should come down from his high horse and see what your all about?
 
Originally posted by TexasRaceLady
Congratulations, Ryan.  A well-deserved honor.

Sure hope the sophomore jinx doesn't get him next year.
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Agreed 100% TRL!

Congratulations Ryan!!
 
Originally posted by 71Fan
Wonder why NBC couldn't have figured it out. At one point during one of their "as they stand now" things, they called it a tie with Jimmie the winner cause he had more wins.

It's like the media wants nascar to change the way it figures rookie points so they can have another Jeff. Ryan was by far the more consistant racer bringing home top tens or better 35 times.

It's Official (nascar.com)
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Ryan by far the most consistant? Why was he lower in the final point standings then?

I think most people want to change the way rookies are graded, especially since the driver who won finished lower in the point standings. And remember, Nascar changed the rules in the 11th hour by taking Gordon off of the panel. You can't have it both ways. The easiest and most fair way is to give ROTY to the highest finishing rookie...period. And not because it is J.J. either, I have said this for years.

Another Jeff? You would explode!:p
 
i am a gordon fan, and i 100% agree that Newman was ROTY
 
I like both of them but I like Ryan better so I'm tickled pink!!

:headbang: :victory: :calpping: :beerchug: :booya: :leap:
 
Of the two, Ryan did it best!!

And for Jeffie being off the panel.......that is the only way it should be. Conflict of interest.
 
I too don't see why rookies are graded differently than on cup points. I think Jimie Johnson was the real Rookie of the Year, but then I claim no impartiallity on this.
 
I don't say you have to give it to the highest rookie in points but you should give it to the person who had the most victories! Jimmies had 3 and Ryan had 1.
IMO Jimmiie Johnson was the best rookie this year!!
 
For example's sake, I'm going to try the rookie points really simply: 6 points for a win, 4 for 2nd, 3 for 3rd-5th, 2 for 6th-10th, and 1 for 11th-20th finishes.

Wins:
JJ: 3 = 18 points
RN: 1 = 6 points

2nds:
JJ: 0 = 0 points
RN: 5 = 20 points

3rd-5th:
JJ: 3 = 9 points
RN: 8 = 24 points

6th-10th:
JJ: 15 = 30 points
RN: 8 = 16 points

11th-20th:
JJ: 7 = 7 points
RN: 4 = 4 points

By this simplified, easy-to-comprehend system, Ryan wins the rookie title 70-64, even though he's lower in points. So the way I see it, Ryan is and should be the ROTY, based on his performance. Any more questions?
 
Originally posted by Gordon Fan
I think most people want to change the way rookies are graded, especially since the driver who won finished lower in the point standings.  
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I think most people who want it changed are bowtie fans. Newman beats Johnson, Kenseth beats Junior. Hurt that bad?

It's an award, not a prophecy.

When Kenseth beat Junior, all I could hear was "Let's have co-winners!" from the bowtie brigade. Nauseating. They wouldn't want that if Junior had won it, now would they? Instead, they want to cheapen Matt's accomplishment. It just KILLS them to see Golden Boy get beat. And face it, he did get beat.

Second verse, same as the first. That stuff started up this year about the time Newman passed Jimmie. "Oh, we should have co-winners!" Baloney. It's an award. The criteria for winning it are laid out for all competitors. Just because Junior or Jimmie didn't get the job done (and that's really what it boils down to, now isn't it?), does not mean that rules should be changed for them. They lost. Live with it. All the Jeff Gordons on the circuit can't change the fact that, given the parameter of the contest, Jimmie did not win it. Ryan did. It's his award. Get your hands off of it.

Jimmie will win his share of races in his career. He's a talented driver. Take nothing away from him.

But don't give him something that he didn't win, either.
 
Well TnWard,Its good to see you didn't strap on a pair of goody two shoes when you got that promotion to moderator.:p
 
well, i guess just like they award consistency in the cup championship, they do likewise for the roty. i would have voted for johnson:satisfied
 
TN-WardBurton: You are wrong. I don't have any preference to make of car or any allegiance to who the car owner is. The point I am making is that, why don't they award ROTY just like cup? When they did this criteria, years ago, they never fathomed that a rookie would compete for the actual top prize, let alone 2 of them!

Ryan Newman is great, one of my faves too, but he was only more consistant in the criteria set forth by ROTY, not in Winston Cup.

Yes, Ryan won because of that criteria that is now in place, but it should be changed in the future.

No hard feelings for me because I know who finished highest in points between the 2. That has always been my criteria.

It makes me laugh when some people say you can't change the rules to suit yourself, that is how they are dtermined, but at the same time the rules were changed in the 11th hour when Jeff Gordon was removed from the panel. You can't accept that change and not the other! Nascar saw a conflict of interest, which I agree with and removed him. Good. But they should have also stated that ROTY will be awarded to the highest finishing rookie since both were competing for the cup. Seems only fair.
 
I thought Jeff (not nascar) removed himself.

And I'm with TWF. The rules is da rules. The criteria has been in place for many a year. If it's broke nascar will fix it. Problem is, it ain't broke.

Ryan Newman deserved to win the award. And I say deserved because only those who are deserving get the trophy. While JJ had a fine rookie year, he didn't get it because he didn't deserve it.
 
Originally posted by 71Fan
I thought Jeff (not nascar) removed himself.

And I'm with TWF. The rules is da rules. The criteria has been in place for many a year. If it's broke nascar will fix it. Problem is, it ain't broke.

Ryan Newman deserved to win the award. And I say deserved because only those who are deserving get the trophy. While JJ had a fine rookie year, he didn't get it because he didn't deserve it.
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Nope, Nascar removed him. He agreed very quietly and it was the right thing to do or it would have been labeled tainted.

So if da rules is da rules, then they shouldn't have removed him or ask him to remove himself, however you want to put it.

To say J.J. who had a better record, therefore finished higher in the points, didn't deserve it, is a laugh.
 
i disagree with you gordon fan, the way it it set up now i like it, because this way they take there best 17 races or whatever it is, this way if you blow up your not effected for rookie of the year, i think the way it is now rewards the best driver because they arent affected by equipment problems such as blown engines.
 
Gordon fan.....

deserve means....to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward.

If JJ would have "deserved" the ROTY honor, he would have gotten it. But JJ didn't deserve it, so he didn't get it.

The panel votes in the following manner.....Rookie panel – Awards bonus points (10 through 1 system) to each rookie for the following categories: conduct with officials, track conduct and awareness, personal appearance and relationship with the media.(Ford Racing)

As you can see, there are three areas.....even if JJ would have gotten 10 in each catagory for a total of 30 points, and even if Ryan would have gotten 3 points in each catagory for a total of 9, Ryan STILL would have won the ROTY Award 379 to 377.

The gordon on the panel thing is a non issue. Ryan might not be All That, but he would hardly merit less than a 3 in any of these catagories.

The best Rookie won the award because the best rookie deserved it.
 
71fan, you are blinded by your feeling for J.J., that's it. So, you are saying that anything anyone ever gets, they deserve it...hmmmmm.

These posts make me look like I am bummed or I don't like Ryan. Neither is the case. I am a fan of his, not bummed out that he won it, just that you say J.J. didn't deserve it is ludicrous.

Points I am making is that ROTY system is outdated and not fair. It should be changed and I think it will soon enough. What if J.J. won the cup, but lost ROTY because of their structure? Would you still say he didn't deserve it? I do wish Ryan would have finished with more points in cup, then we wouldn't be posting back and forth:D

And Toddgee, blown motors or DNF's are part of the game. Should they do that with the cup too?

Okay, I am done...LOL. Have a great off season.:D
 
Blinded?
Interesting, didn't know we had a mind reader on board. :)

The current system has been in place for close to 30 years. The rules are simple enuf. Score the best 17 races of each rookie according to a formula that is across the board. The system itself is fair in that it allows for those rookies WITHOUT the best cars to score points based on their best perfomances.

The award goes to the driver who has the best finishes in 17 races. It is designed to allow for breakdowns, crashes, bad pit stops, and driver newness. It is designed to level the field.

It's not broken.
 
Originally posted by Gordon Fan
The point I am making is that, why don't they award ROTY just like cup?  
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For reasons you and others mentioned. When the award was implemented, rookies were not in the best equipment. Many times, they didn't even make the race. These facts may be hard to imgaine unless you've been around awhile.

The current system was devised as it was the fairest system they could come up with. It rewards top finishes, and gives them several mulligans.

Both drivers had the same system. Jimmie lost. Your crying and whining sounds reminiscent.

And as I said before, it's an award, not a prophecy.

Why are all the Bowtie Boys so up in arms?
 
Two things that JJ had that Ryan didn't.

An extremely powerful team. A PR dept that wouldn't quit.

One time in the modern era the final points standing and the ROTY Award are in conflict (by all of 7 points I might add) and the cry goes up to change the system. I'ld say a working percentage of 98 percent or so ain't bad.

Roger Penske may have a good team, but it pales in comparison to Hendrick Motorsports. The system was set to take "team power" in to account so the better "driver" not team would take the award.

Ya know what's funny tho? The guy with the trophy don't care.
 
Truth be told it is the second time that the ROTY has been awarded to rookie not hightest in the WC points standing.

Back in 1979 rookie Joe Millikan finished 6th in the final point standings of the year. The nearest other rookie finished some 265 points further back in 7th. There was another rookie that year finished 10th in the final points standings, a few hundred more points back.

Joe did not win the ROTY honor for 1979 despite being the highest standing rookie in the WC ratings. Neither did the 10th place finisher, Terry Labonte. The drive rwho finished 7th in the point was awarded ROTY, some guy named Dale Earnhardt.

Joe was never again to run any near a full season in WC. Closest was in 1981 when he competed in 23 races finishing 20th in the final point standings.

Both of the other top rookies went on to become WC champions. As if ya'll didn't know that.:)
 
So by the prevailing logic, Joe Milliken should have had it, Not Dale Earnhardt.























Interesting.
 
The difference is that Dale got it so noone will whine about that or scream that rules need to be changed. Just as if Jimmie had won this noone would be going on and on about Ryan. As long as Jimmie, Jeff, and Junior get everything handed to them things are ok. IMO Jimmie knew the rules before this all started just as Ryan did. The difference Ryan did what it took. :)
 
And Toddgee, blown motors or DNF's are part of the game. Should they do that with the cup too?
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but to see who wins rookie of the year, it should be the best driver, not who had reliable engines, lets say newman blew up 10 times, but every other race he finishes in the top 5, and johnson beats him in the points with 10 to 15 place finishes each race, i would say newman had a better year. the way it is now rewards the driver not the team, and no in order to win the cup you have to have the whole package all year long
 
Stating my opinion does not constitute crying and whining, those remarks are usually made by people who can't say anything else. Geez. Go read my posts again and respond to the question/remark that those rules have worked forever, they ain't broke etc. Well, then address the fact that the rules were changed and the reigning champ was removed!

Now, it may not have made a difference, but you guys aren't accepting that part of it, which is why I kept posting on this worn out thread:D And I'll spin this blown motor theory for ya. Hey maybe it is the driver's over aggression that makes them blow up! Rusty din't have them, hmmmmmm. See, just another theory, but neither one can be considered that absolute gospel.

If someone has an opinion, do not be so quick to just write it off as whining.

I laugh when posters seem to know what team is best. You cannot tell me or anyone else that Penke doesn't have the funds of Hendrick. Penske could buy Hendrick out 50 times over!

So in closing...LMAO! I reall enjoy this board and "most" of the people here, even though we disagree:p See ya all next year...unless........:D

Congrats to Ryan for ROTY, he deserved it!
 
Jimmie was robbed. More wins and a higher finish in the points? Yea, he was robbed.:rolleyes:
 
I believe it is more suitable in this situation to use the word "earned" instead of "deserved".

earn:
to receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered
to come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to <he earned an award
to make worthy of or obtain for

And as for the rest, they both learned a whole lot too.:)
 
I just checked out something interesting. JJ finished 5th in the points and RN was 6th. Newman was 6th in earnings, but Johnson was 21st in earnings. How about them apples?
 
And I'll spin this blown motor theory for ya. Hey maybe it is the driver's over aggression that makes them blow up! Rusty din't have them, hmmmmmm.
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to me driver over aggression would cause wrecks not blown motors. and on the engine topic

40 36 #12 Ryan Newman * Ford ALLTEL 48/5 252 Engine
41 10 #12 Ryan Newman * Ford ALLTEL 40/0 257 Overheating
43 8 #12 Ryan Newman * Ford ALLTEL 39/5 141 Engine

3 races in a row, looks like newman was a engine r&d team
 
Originally posted by B.C. - 24
Jimmie was robbed. &nbsp;More wins and a higher finish in the points? &nbsp;Yea, he was robbed.:rolleyes:
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I'm just gonna put this on tape, and play it for all you Bowtie Babies.

How can he be robbed if the same rules apply to both drivers? One got it done, the other didn't.

Why oh why is that so difficult for you people to understand?

Just this once, the rules weren't bent so your boy could have what he wanted. That must suck.

I'm gonna buy stock in Kleenex. Lot of it needed around here.
 
Originally posted by TN-Ward-Fan
I'm just gonna put this on tape, and play it for all you Bowtie Babies.

How can he be robbed if the same rules apply to both drivers? &nbsp;One got it done, the other didn't.

Why oh why is that so difficult for you people to understand?

Just this once, the rules weren't bent so your boy could have what he wanted. &nbsp;That must suck.

I'm gonna buy stock in Kleenex. &nbsp;Lot of it needed around here.
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Johnson got robbed because Jeff Gordon wasn't on the ROTY board to decide the winner. Poor Jimmie. I know TN, I'm trying to get a tear to come out but its being stubborn.:p
 
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