Novelty drivers

[97forever]

Joe Gibbs to 'seek out' (read that create)'black youth' drivers.Of course,Joe says he will consider other minorities too.Why,how open of him!To consider those 'other minorities'!

The 'improved diversity'of NASCAR could be a positive thing if done in a sincere and honest manner,of course,bringing even more mainstream attention to the sport.Don't misunderstand that.

But if this whole recent rush to diversify NASCAR doesn't smack of being just another thinly veiled attempt to:

a)attract sponsorship from certain companies that otherwise would never be interested in NASCAR for marketing purposes, or:
b)appease those elements of society that deride and condemn NASCAR as being just to white/redneck/southern,or:
c)both.

Give us a break Gibbs.Blacks,Hispanics,women,yankees,the occasional oriental,muslim,catholic,lesbian and three toed snake handler are all a part of society.Most race fans put away their wooden crosses and kerosene years ago,ironed their sheets and accept that we live in a very diversified world.We dont really need you to shine your light of purity so that we can all burn our rebel flags and see more clearly.

You're after the money from Afro-sheen,El Palacio's and Tampax.Period.The fans can see thru you and Jesse the J won't be fooled either.So before you snatch kids off the basketball court just be sure your heart is in the right place.You can't put boots on a rooster,after all.The 'Tiger Woods' of NASCAR racing that you want to find is ALREADY in Winston Cup!

Young and brash and taking NASCAR by storm.

Just a shame Kurt is white.But I guess skin color is what sits Tiger apart,right?

Of course,you can shut up the cynics like me,Mr.Gibbs....as soon as you replace Tony Stewart with Bill Lester!

(Sorry folks,just a little rant this morning!Any opinions? )

 

[Bucky Badger]

I hate peer pressure, MR Jackson, If they earn it coming from the sat night short tracks like everyone else thats fine, If it happens I hope they don't just throw anyone in there to make the head lines. I would like to see it stay an american sport. Base ball, Basket ball and football certinatly has changed alot, I can't even pronounce 7\8ths of the names in base ball any more. same with the indy 500. I peer pressure is going to kick our A$$. this is just my opinion.

 

[97forever]

Yeah...it's not the 'diversity' that bothers me either.It's just the hypocracy of the whole thing.It's so transparent it's just a shame.Almost embarrasing for the sport.NASCAR has never historically taken to anyone they deem 'outsiders'.....just ask Bobby Allison from 35 years ago.So to suddenly have a high-profile car owner actively recruiting minorities is a bit much to me.Just more of NASCAR's eternal revenue-seeking:We have bled the working class white folks to death with escalating ticket costs....now let's go after the minorities!

 

[Whizzer]

Are you afraid of something here?? You can't pronounce the names of 7/8ths of the players in baseball, basketball and football?? Funny, but a visit to Ellis Island has names on file most people can't pronounce. And many of these names helped make this country what it is today. Look at the names of those who died in WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Kuwait, Iraq, they represent Hispanics, Black Americans, and every other culture, denomination and race there is in the world today. They were recruited, drafted and volunteered.
But they all served, unusual names included. Damn good thing they were there when needed because if they were categorized by skin color, ethnic background, or strange names there never would have been a WWII.

NASCAR is trying to become a diversified sport and that is a good thing.
When you look at the configuration of any professional stick and ball team, what do you see? Color ?? Or talent ??? Religion ?? Or talent?? Nationality?? Or talent ???

Agreed, no matter the reason, a person should be accepted into the ranks of any part of racing because of thier ability, but it so happens that isn't how many got there. Quite a few had money or help or both. The rest earned thier way in as it should be. If a minority can do a job as well as or better than the next guy, give them an equal opportunity. Do it based on ability and potential, and for no other reason.

There is more to what NASCAR is doing than the bottom line. Sure they will gain financially as a result, if thier efforts are successful. And Joe Gibbs has worked with more minorities than probably any team owner in NASCAR other than Rick Hendrick, so with them both it is a gesture of treating all people the same and giving them the opportunity. "Do-gooder" Joe Gibbs is offering to help and his past history as a former professional football and Super Bowl Championship Coach indicate the jobs go to those who earn it rather than trying to put boots on a rooster as some fear.

As for Tiger Woods, the best in golf today. There is considerable debate on who is the best in Winston Cup. Not everyone agrees it is Kurt Busch.

The question is, what do you see when you think of Tiger ?? The best golfer in the sport today? Or do you see a Black-Asian- American who is the best golfer in the sport today??
And what do you see when you think of Kurt Busch?? A white driver ? And would it matter if he were a minority?
You betcha. If Busch were a minority and as successful as he has been this past year, the words "brash" and "taking NASCAR by storm" would take on new meaning.

And since 97 Forever said he will shut up if Joe Gibbs hires Bill Lester to replace Tony Stewart, well, that isn't what Gibbs or NASCAR has in mind and is diametrical to what he has espoused as logic in his rant.

Joe Gibbs and the others who are participating in this effort seek minorities who earn thier way in by ability, talent and potential. And that is fair and not worthy of criticism.

 

[97forever]

Wow Whiz.....that was quite a response there!

Interesting points you made.I even agree with some of them,in fact.Some of 'em,of course,I don't.

Your first paragraph wasn't directed at me,so my dog isn't in that fight.

Your second paragraph is a bit off the mark,considering this is not in fact a stick and ball sport.Lump this is there with 'Hemingway' sports like mountain climbing and bull fighting....not baseball.Apples to oranges there.

Ok,paragraph three is what I said to begin with...not much to argue with that.


Paragraph four is really cute,I like the boots on a rooster quote!Joe will put money in this to get more money out of this.Common economics and capitalism.Donate to the red cross,Joe.Or the NAACP for all I personally care.That is really silly,Whiz.My interpretation of Gibb's motives should in theory be as sound as yours.I.E:you see it your way,I see it mine.Neither of us really know.

Paragraph five:A pretty safe bet is that time will decide this one.He is Tiger-like in the young age department...which is what I meant anyway.

The next paragraph means what excactly?I said (with sarcasm,by the way)"I guess skin-color is what sits Tiger apart".Of course he is the black-asian Kurt Busch of the golf world!

Paragraph seven:Then the Gentlemen are wasting their time if they are not looking for the next whoever-you-call the best.Why else waste the time?To erase past social injustice?Yeah,ok.No..I forgot,to give all those young minority kids a shot at the big league!Ok.And all with no return investment,I suppose?

And it is my opinion and right as a fan of this sport to bitch,gripe or rant as I damn well see fit.Like the Missouri slogan says:Show me the results.Just a bit to cynical to think this is being done for any other reason than for personal gain.Just glad that Joe was donating his time all those years to helping the poor and downtrodden while coaching.Helping them all the way to the bank,in fact.

Get back with me when Bill is in the #20 car.Until then,prove your non-point the best you can.

 

[Whizzer]

97Forever, you don't have a dog in this fight ?? Of course you do. You started the thread and opened the door to discussion even asking for other opinions.

Generally speaking, opinion reflecting sarcasm, dismay and derisiveness of motivation steered toward teams and organizations with the ability and sincere desire to help minorities, has a hidden agenda.

Why must people with a sincere desire to assist minorities be suspected of having financial interest as thier only reason for doing so??
If that logic were followed, the Salvation Army, American Red Cross and every other organization to recognize and assist minorities have financial reward as the ultimate goal.

Isn't it possible Joe Gibbs, Rick Hendrick and Richard Childress in cooperation with other teams and NASCAR are doing this because they feel it is time to open the door to minorities?? Could it be they realize it will provide a larger selection of talent ?

Diversity within the ranks of NASCAR is good for the sport and it offers far more benefits than it does disadvantages. It helps people who might never get the same opportunity available to others because they are part of a minority persuasion.
In the overall scheme of things, after hiring a minority member of society, Joe Gibbs could become more successful and the greater success generate higher financial reward. Is that wrong ?? According to your argument, it is.
In reality, it is the American way. The better you are the more your services cost, no matter who plays on the team.

Instead of looking to the far side for the negative, teams like the ones previously mentioned should be getting accolades for thier effort in continuing with the typical American way of helping others and promoting diversity.

 

[Dinoforthe3]

Maybe my take on the article is a little different. The article I saw said Reggie white the former football player was interesting in targeting minorities to give them opportunities to get into racing. This was not started by joe gibbs. Not to demean the coach, but he is just lending his support to Reggie. I think it is a great thing and that it does in fact need to start at the local level.

 

[Whizzer]

Just for the record, roughly a year prior to his death, Dale Earnhardt offered Fred Driver, a New Jersey modified driver, a DEI ride in the NASCAR Featherlite Series. Driver, a minority, refused the offer for personal reasons.

The point is, did Earnhardt offer Driver the oportunity because he was sincere or was his motivation because Driver was a minority and the ultimate goal for DEI, financial gain??

Same scenario, different teams with familiar associations. You be the judge.

 

[97forever]

One more quick comment,guys.And thanks for the opinions from you folks.

The point of my thread was not to oppose diversity in Nascar at all.It was to oppose the obvious hypocracy that NASCAR is about to embark on.

'Generally' speaking is just general,Whiz.My only 'agenda'is that I am a bit of a hardened cynic where millionaires and their money is concerned.It seems from my point of view that you seem to imply I am against minority entrance into NASCAR.No.Wrong.If I were,I would use this faceless medium we are on to express myself in crystal clear terms.I would leave no room for doubt as to how I felt.

I will conclude my part of the debate by stating how I see this:This 'old boys club' that is NASCAR is not about to do ANYTHING in the true interest of minorities.Why do you think it is Joe that was 'approached'(and bet the farm,the hiearchy at the top was consulted)to seek out and recruit 'black and maybe some other minorities' racers?Because Joe Gibbs has dealt with 'minorities' moreso than ANY top Nascar official.Helton and co.arent excactly the most liberal and inclusive bunch of fat white guys on the block.But Joe...."hell,he's dealt with 'em before!"Or a statement near that.

So it;s not that diversity is the issue,IMO,it's the damn dollar-chasing,plain old fashion greed that is the thing I have a problem with.I have tried and tried to make that as plain as I can on here.NASCAR would milk the Devil out of a dollar if they could.Hitler,Saddam,you name it...just bring in the money.

Re-read the second paragraph of my first post on this topic.Read it close.Hell,read most of the post I have ever put on here...I hate the greed and dollar chasing at the sake of all else NASCAR does.That is my not-so-hidden agenda.

So,one sees it as the American way...helping others and promoting diversity.The other sees it as the greedy way of screwing-over everything in your path to chase that almighty dollar.

 

[Whizzer]

The discussion centers on the difference in opinions as why NASCAR has accepted the challenge of minority recruiting. The reasons teams jumping on board to offer assistance and the overall motivation of any or all of these people.

There are times when being cynical comes across in a manner other than intended. Having dealt with a diversified group of individuals in my "past the age of collecting social security years", the benefit of doubt has served me well. Cynicsm has not. That is personal experience, but what fits one is certainly not gospel for another and can justifiably trigger alarms on sensitive issues.
Since the electronic medium hides true personality, we are left to our own devices to estimate who and what we are actually dealing with. What fun!!!!

The intent of this forum and spirited discussions where we agree to disagree, is, as always, entertaining, and thought provoking.

 

[97forever]

Ahh.Well spoken Whiz.(And in fact,your opinions on here are always entertaining and thought provoking.I love this stuff!)

So another debate rages on,folks!Just everyone try to enjoy this sport even if we have to question the powers that be every now and then.


To everyone on here!