OK, let's talk about a High Limit/All Stars Merger

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virtualbalboa

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The noise on this is getting pretty loud now and looking around online there's been chatter about it since at least July/August. It definitely feels like we're on the track to that happening, so let's discuss the whole "what do we think this might look like?" and of course react to what seems like an inevitable announcement in the near future.

A few things jump into my head as far as this goes from this year:

-Lots of drivers talking about wanting fewer races for more money
-Lots of drivers complaining about the insane travel for WoO
-Two drivers on family teams suddenly disappearing from family owned seats and then discussing the fact that they are burnt out from the road at roughly the same time (Anthony Macri & Jacob Allen)
-High Limit, well, exists
-All Stars car count is down a bit, hurt badly by injuries
-World of Outlaws car count has been great everywhere in spite of the first two things
-Guys like Rico, Buddy, and Marks still out there doing lots of pick-and-choose

If I think about all of those things combined, I come up with this: the High Limit All Stars Sprint Car Series, a 25-40 race schedule built predominantly to fit around Kyle Larson and the major WoO event schedule. Flo ponies up extra money for making features. Flo ponies up extra money for wins and such (e.g. every race is minimum 25K to win). Flo and company get some new venues opened up for their series (Dirt Track at TMS that's been silent for a little while, IMS Dirt Track as examples) and run during NASCAR weekends or around them. Lots of mid week shows too, because again, "fit around Kyle Larson." Big fat points fund and contractual guarantees to make all 25 events or whatever; double WoO tow money. And perhaps most importantly, "run anything you want outside the HLAS schedule" - all these guys will still be able to run the gamut of Outlaw, NARC, IRA, or weekly PA/WI/IA events if they want, but you gotta show up for HLAS. I also wonder if Macri and Allen are both guys who've effectively already thrown their hat in the ring for HLAS and that led to the fissures that caused their departures from rides they could have held forever.

If that all happens, I see mass defections and the real question becomes if the WRG tries to ban HLAS racers from events they sanction. What say you?
 
I think one issue would be the tracks that have depended on the ASCOC as a big race event (money maker). A reduced number of races could put some tracks in a more perilous position. That might lead to another series spinning off to fill this need. Sprint car racing is pretty stout these days and the bigger events are approaching or have already exceeded the car count needed for a good event.
 
Dirtrackr today was reporting that the Allstars today told several employees they were no longer required
 
StandOnIt said:
The All Stars season is over, they probably aren't needed.
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Justin is pretty well connected and I think would know the difference between guys being laid off at the end of the season to collect unemployment and that they weren't going to be needed for next year. He specifically named one official who'd been with the All Stars for 4 years as having announced he will not be retained (and that the person expected it). Also stated to expect two announcements: one for the merger/acquisition, one for the series schedule.

As for the question of "Who will fill dates for smaller tracks?," there's the new Maverick and Iron Man Sprint Car Series being created for 2024 plus the potential expansion for someone like the ASCS to do 360 events (or even IRA/GLSS expansion).
 
50 to 60 races next year for the new series I'd guess. It's pretty easy to be giddy about this series potential.
My fear, is that this new series is going to take their fan base into a ticket price that's going to be a struggle for their grass roots fans. The last 2 races had reserved seating in the $50 range,with 1 class of cars. I truly hope I'm wrong. If this series decimates the current WoO driver list,that basically eliminates alot the competition for race fans between the series.
 
Rpmx said:
50 to 60 races next year for the new series I'd guess. It's pretty easy to be giddy about this series potential.
My fear, is that this new series is going to take their fan base into a ticket price that's going to be a struggle for their grass roots fans. The last 2 races had reserved seating in the $50 range,with 1 class of cars. I truly hope I'm wrong. If this series decimates the current WoO driver list,that basically eliminates alot the competition for race fans between the series.
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WRG won't go quietly. Brian Carter is already known to be ruthless in protecting their turf, and that was without a real competitor. WoO will probably increase their exclusivity bonus money, and some current teams will choose that option. Others will jump toward the High Limit model that will probably put an emphasis on the $20,000+ to win purses.

In the short term, fierce competition between the two could actually keep ticket prices in check.

It's 2006 all over again.
 
gnomesayin said:
WRG won't go quietly. Brian Carter is already known to be ruthless in protecting their turf, and that was without a real competitor. WoO will probably increase their exclusivity bonus money, and some current teams will choose that option. Others will jump toward the High Limit model that will probably put an emphasis on the $20,000+ to win purses.

In the short term, fierce competition between the two could actually keep ticket prices in check.

It's 2006 all over again.
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There are already rumors the Outlaws are looking at some sort of regional series like the Gumout series from early this century.
 
And there it is.
 
i think its great and hope they both let their drivers race with both if they want.i only have flo so this is good for me.
 
Awesome. Hope Brad stays in the WoO though, he’d absolutely murder the current field in the ASCOC
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Awesome. Hope Brad stays in the WoO though, he’d absolutely murder the current field in the ASCOC
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Brad is not only going to race the new series full time, but he has been trying to get other drivers to join him in defecting throughout the year. Who might be following, I have no clue.

Another hot rumor is that Tony Stewart is divesting of his Sprint car team. Don't be surprised if Kyle Larson is involved in an acquisition of that too. A lot of rumors online about Schatz possibly out and on his was into the 11 Eliason races.
 
The Knoxville Nationals are already announced and still WoO affiliated (not-WoO sanctioned, strictly speaking, but it's still a WoO / DIRTVision property). No surprise there. It's very unlikely that longtime PA WoO stalwarts like Williams Grove and Lincoln don't remain in the WoO fold. I could see Port Royal being in play, and a lot of the Ohio tracks that have had ties to both ASCoC and WoO as well. Volusia and Huset's are staying WoO and have announced 2024 dates.

Much of the rest of the country is going to be a free-for-all. Perhaps the biggest shoe to drop is Eldora. They (and Tony Stewart) have always had an uneasy relationship with WoO, and Smoke has made some spicy comments recently implying that WoO does not care about the teams. If Eldora were to pull the King's Royal and their other dates out of WoO hands, that's a sizable blow. It's also an open question whether they'd run their events under their own sanction, which they certainly have the power to do, or go full High Limit.

The Gold Cup in CA almost surely becomes a High Limit event, since Brad and Kyle own the track. Do they try to get Skagit and other west coast tracks as well? I'm sure Brad and Kyle would love to continue to revive the west coast scene, but that's such a tough swing economically for most teams that aren't based there.
 
StandOnIt said:
I just hope they both series do well and open up more opportunities for drivers and venues to make a buck.
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The buddy of mine I go to the Chili Bowl with and who really got me deep into dirt racing and I were talking about this on the way to AUS for my flight home. It's not like the Indy 500 and the IRL/CART split in so much as no one anywhere can conceive of a situation where someone is denying entry to someone else's cars. Had the Indy 500 been a total open event in 1995, I don't know that the split happens the same way. No one can fathom the idea that the Knoxville Nationals, Kings Royal, National Open, Dirt Cup, High Bank Nationals, Tusky 50, et al are going to be closed races with a set field of cars. We'll get to see best vs. best competitions multiple times next year regardless and those specific events are probably gonna be really big.

Money is obviously at the center of all of this. It costs as much to put a 360 on the track as it does a 410. Winged cars race for more money than non-wing by a pretty good margin now. You have Flo pumping in money and of course Dirtvision is providing a revenue stream for the Outlaws that simply didn't exist in the past. Crowds are growing. Interest is way up. All those factors work together to push drivers into 410 winged sprints in a way that doesn't appear best I can tell to have been the case in prior splits like the NST/Outlaws and has meant we've had no shortage of cars and drivers who are capable of being competitive. That might be very bad over the long term for USAC or the ASCS though. If drivers keep going to winged 410s, that's also going to benefit NARC, IRA, and any other 410 series like the new Maverick group starting up.
 
www.floracing.com

Kyle Larson And Brad Sweet Announce Major Plans For High Limit Racing - FloRacing

Kyle Larson and Brad Sweet announced Tuesday that High Limit Racing will become a national Sprint Car touring series in 2024.
www.floracing.com www.floracing.com

50 races, 2 in conjunction with NASCAR (TMS & Lakeside in Kansas) midweek series championship in addition to full series championship, and a $1 million dollar payout to the team owner winner of the series title. Brad Sweet is headed to run it full time as expected. Among the events already stated to be part of the schedule: Gold Cup, Skagit Nationals, 4-Crown Nationals, Tusky 50 & Weikert Memorial. Off weekends will exist around the major other events.
 
virtualbalboa said:
www.floracing.com

Kyle Larson And Brad Sweet Announce Major Plans For High Limit Racing - FloRacing

Kyle Larson and Brad Sweet announced Tuesday that High Limit Racing will become a national Sprint Car touring series in 2024.
www.floracing.com www.floracing.com

50 races, 2 in conjunction with NASCAR (TMS & Lakeside in Kansas) midweek series championship in addition to full series championship, and a $1 million dollar payout to the team owner winner of the series title. Brad Sweet is headed to run it full time as expected. Among the events already stated to be part of the schedule: Gold Cup, Skagit Nationals, 4-Crown Nationals, Tusky 50 & Weikert Memorial. Off weekends will exist around the major other events.
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Can't think of a better avenue for them to have taken. Originally from Ohio its sad to see the demise of the ASCOC, but the new series appears to have it all.
 
Well Blake Anderson won't be carrying over from the All Stars as announcer. Shame because I like him in the role, but best of luck going forward.

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Well no date at Knoxville for them
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gnomesayin said:
I doubt there is a single track signed with DIRTVision for streaming that will have High Limit on their schedule.
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Yep I agree, so we can cross Williams Grove off the list too.
 
kkfan91 said:
Yep I agree, so we can cross Williams Grove off the list too.
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Add Jackson Motorplex and Husets to the list too. Especially given that Husets has I think 6 WoO nights lined up for next year + Gravel already being committed to the WoO ahead of anyone else.
 
While we wait for the schedule...which wouldn't surprise me if it dropped tomorrow now that the Outlaws is out.

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