Pass under caution

[smack500]

Pass under caution puts
gentility back in spotlight
By JIM UTTER
ThatsRacin.com Writer

SONOMA, Calif. - It's not as if there wasn't any warning.
Robby Gordon's pass of Richard Childress Racing teammate Kevin Harvick under caution on Lap 71 of 110 in Sunday's Dodge/Save Mart 350 - which violated NASCAR's unwritten "gentlemen's agreement" not to race back to the caution flag - set off fire storm following the race at Infineon Raceway.

Gordon made the pass in Turn 11 as the track was under a full-course caution. He eventually moved into the lead and earned his second Winston Cup victory.

The seeds of the move were planted in the prerace drivers' meeting, when Gordon repeatedly questioned NASCAR President Mike Helton and race director David Hoots about the propriety of passing under yellow.

"I knew it was going to happen, especially with the questions that were asked in the drivers' meeting," said Harvick's crew chief, Todd Berrier. "Everybody left the drivers' meeting knowing (Gordon) was going to pass as many people as he could under caution."

Helton and Hoots explained that passing was permitted under "local yellows" - when only part of the course was under caution.

Under full-course cautions, NASCAR would honor a "gentlemen's agreement" not to race back to the caution flag. However, drivers are not penalized when they violate the "gentlemen's agreement."

Harvick, who finished third, was twice asked about the incident after the race and declined to expand on his initial comment: "It was good, hard racing except for that chicken move under yellow."

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

"I don't care if they call it a gentlemen's agreement or not. What he did, especially to his teammate, is absolutely ridiculous."

Robby Gordon said he purposely asked questions in the drivers' meeting to determine whether passing under yellow was permitted.

"Kevin Harvick may be mad at me, but it is what it is," Robby Gordon said. When told of Jeff Gordon's comments on the incident, Robby Gordon said, "Do you really think I care what Jeff Gordon thinks, honestly?"

Team owner Richard Childress was placed in an awkward position by the move.

"I hate it was our team car. Kevin had a great car today and I hate it for Kevin, but I'm happy as can be for Robby," Childress said.

"We'll all sit down and talk and discuss it because we have a lot of racing to do. I can see Kevin's point, but I can also see where Robby is coming from. It's just one of those deals."

 

[Ward Burton]

Man It sounds like there are a lot of people mad at Robby.

 

[j ozzman 5000]

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

ol' jethro seems to foget when he passed kenseth while racing back to the yellow at texas.
i say screw the gentlemens agreement.
this is NASCAR. not IRL.

 

[majestyx]

Originally posted by j ozzman 5000@Jun 23 2003, 12:42 PM

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

ol' jethro seems to foget when he passed kenseth while racing back to the yellow at texas.
i say screw the gentlemens agreement.
this is NASCAR. not IRL.

Completely different situation at Texas.

 

[RobbyG Fan]

Doesnt matter, racing back to the caution is racing back to the caution either way you look at it. Little Jeffy is being a little hypocritical eh?

Seriously as DW said, the gentlemans agreement is crap. Everybody race their own race to win. No favors out there need to be made, everyone needs to race their own race to win.

 

[de7xwcc]

Originally posted by majestyx+Jun 23 2003, 05:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (majestyx @ Jun 23 2003, 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--j ozzman 5000@Jun 23 2003, 12:42 PM

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

ol' jethro seems to foget when he passed kenseth while racing back to the yellow at texas.
i say screw the gentlemens agreement.
this is NASCAR. not IRL.

Completely different situation at Texas. [/b][/quote]
can you explain what is different about it ? a pass under caution is a pass under caution.

 

[edison18]

I don't think that Robby's passing of Harvick under the yellow made any difference in the outcome of the race. but I do think that NASCAR is being horribly inconsistent in the rules about yellow flags.

You can't pass for a local yellow, but a full course yellow; where a car could be on the track or a pool or oil around a sharp turn, is fair game for passing? That doesn't make sense even by NASCAR standards.

Remember that Jeff didn't honor the "gentlemen's agreement" not to pass Kenseth, but rather to keep Busch and another good driver a lap down. Jeff gave Kenseth back the lead after passing the start/finish line. There NASCAR enforced the agreement, then backtracked later that week.

The "gentlemen's agreement" needs to be a rule, not just a suggestion that some drivers adhere to and other ignore. Otherwise someone is going to get killed all in the name of getting a lap back or gaining a position on those who have slowed down to honor the agreement.

 

[PitViper]

Originally posted by de7xwcc+Jun 23 2003, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (de7xwcc @ Jun 23 2003, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -majestyx@Jun 23 2003, 05:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--j ozzman 5000

@Jun 23 2003, 12:42 PM

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

ol' jethro seems to foget when he passed kenseth while racing back to the yellow at texas.
i say screw the gentlemens agreement.
this is NASCAR. not IRL.

Completely different situation at Texas.

can you explain what is different about it ? a pass under caution is a pass under caution. [/b][/quote]
Here is the difference........ as we all no... Jeff Gordon was trying to keep lapped cars who could possibly win the race a lap down.... and in the end..... NASCAR gave the lead back to Kenseth.

 

[de7xwcc]

don't think so viper, Nascar can't make up their mind what they want to do what is good for one gordon should be good for the other.

JG passed Matt in Texas to keep lap cars from getting their lap back, i understand that, however in passing matt he became the leader, he backed off and gave it back to matt and nascar said those guys got their lap back. Then they(NASCAR) said it was a bad call on their part several days later. now the other gordon passes the 29 ( i know lap cars had nothing to do with it) and the 24 cries foul thats BS.
don't get me wrong i don't like JG or RG i am just getting sick of the inconstant calls.
IMHO JG should have been the leader at Texas after that caution.

 

[97forever]

Hey,Jeff G:Just relax,Robby beat you without passing YOU under caution didn't he?

And Robby would have beat Kevin anyway most likely.Just sour grapes.

 

[bowtie]

Jeff would have done the same thing a few years back.

 

[97forever]

Originally posted by bowtie@Jun 23 2003, 04:24 PM
Jeff would have done the same thing a few years back.

Where ya been,buddy?You KNOW how these Gordon fans get!! :lol: :lol:

 

[Bucky Badger]

Originally posted by bowtie@Jun 23 2003, 04:24 PM
Jeff would have done the same thing a few years back.

You are right, Now wait 'till next race.......

 

[bowtie]

Originally posted by 97forever+Jun 23 2003, 03:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (97forever @ Jun 23 2003, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bowtie@Jun 23 2003, 04:24 PM
Jeff would have done the same thing a few years back.

Where ya been,buddy?You KNOW how these Gordon fans get!! :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
waitin on you to get here so we could get back to back and fight our way out of here if we have to. I didn't want to take all these JG fans on by myself.

 

[Parkfan]

I don't think this is so much about as the pass as it's about Jeff hating Robby. Jeff and Robby have never gotten along, and I don't know if it's just from the Louden race, because Jeff's been wrecked by pretty much every driver at one point or another and doesn't hate them. If it's Harvick passing Gordon, I don't think Jeff even mentions it.

 

[Ward Burton]

Earlier this year we had a huge arguement about Dale Jr., now we are beginning to start one with Jeff Gordon...thats the front 2 most popular so is Kevin Harvick next?

 

[17_Fan]

Originally posted by majestyx+Jun 23 2003, 11:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (majestyx @ Jun 23 2003, 11:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--j ozzman 5000@Jun 23 2003, 12:42 PM

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

ol' jethro seems to foget when he passed kenseth while racing back to the yellow at texas.
i say screw the gentlemens agreement.
this is NASCAR. not IRL.

Completely different situation at Texas. [/b][/quote]
Different then Texas? How? Jeff passed Matt after the caution came out. Robbie passed Kevin after the caution came out. No difference.


It was Matt's choice to make to let his team mates back on the lead lap...not Jeff's to keep them a lap down. Matt was the leader. Jeff would have done the same thing if he was leading & JJ was a lap down. Jeff is such a hypocrite.

 

[RobbyG Fan]

A couple of funny quotes guys, it seems like everyone agrees with Robby and is just criticizing Jeff Gordon for being immature and whining and sour grapes:

On Totally Nascar on FOX, they interviewed Jeff Gordon and right after the guys said, "Quite fitting, a driver whining in whine country" or something to that affect.

On Inside Winston Cup, they discussed Robby passing Harvick for a great deal. Both Kenny, Ken, and Johnny agreed that nothing was wrong with Robby passing Kevin. They even mentioned that Helton stated that the "gentleman's agreement" was thrown out last week and is no longer useful for the current state of the league.

Folks, Robby is right and Jeff just has sour grapes, the fact that he was whining about something that has nothing to do with him, (like I said, its between Robby and Kevin) just shows how much he dislikes Robby, but to bring it the way he did in the post race comments shows absolutely no class from Jeff Gordon.


BRING IT JEFF GORDON FANS!

 

[BudNapa815]

Robby asked 3 times in the drivers meeting if it was ok to pass under the caution...and all 3 times NASCAR said he could.

Jeff needs to stop his whinning........he also has no room to be talkin about Robby's agressive driving like he did yesterday also.

 

[DirtyMo1381529]

Originally posted by edison18@Jun 23 2003, 02:10 PM
I do think that NASCAR is being horribly inconsistent in the rules about yellow flags.

Nascar inconsistent? Nascar always uses discretion and never favors any driver over another....


A pass is a pass no matter when it occurs. Is a pass any different if it occurs in turn 2 or turn 4. Should it matter if it occurs coming to a caution or not? no

 

[DJFan]

I been pretty easy on Jeff Gordon lately, even starting to think there might be some reason to root for him every now and again. This has all reminded me of the reason that I started to hate him in the first place. He is a good driver with a SORRY attitude. Post race he actually sounded like he was saying - it was so nice of me to let Robby win - when he said "I knew how bad Robby wanted it, I had some moves but didn't want to risk my points run" In other words - I coulda wrecked him but I might have gotten collected as well"
Or maybe he was thinking that Robby would have administered a good ole county ass whoopin after the race and he may have to sit out a race of two.

The deal with the pass under caution....remember last year Robby was the victim of a GREY area in the rules. That was the "no holding back on the restart/restart must happen at a certain point. Stewart blatently jumped the start at Watkins Glen and was still given the win. Road courses offer the best opportunity to pass under caution, especially Sears Point, where the best place to pass is the turns right before the start finish line. I am sure that Robby was making it clear to NASCAR that he was not going to be victimized by a GREY area rule again.

Jeff Gordon has no right to pass judgement, his racing lately has been extremely suspect! Harvick tried to whine his way to the bank and it didnt work. Guess Jeff figured since he had no cheese he would just add some extra whine.

Kel

 

[Gollum]

Why is Jeffy crying about the pass. It was Kevin that got passed. And he aint said to much about it. Except called it a chicken pass.

 

[Mopardh9]

Lets get rid of this passing under caution....as soon as the caution comes out that is it no racing for positions. Everyone is put back to their position where they were on the on the previous lap. Works for local short track racing and it will cut back on the possibility of a horrendous wreck racing back to the caution. There will be no sour grapes either and no gray area.

 

[Highboy90]

Jeffy and Happy Harvick (not so this time) need to get over it. Suprised Jeffy didn't knock Robby out as he has done to drivers in the past.

 

[Ward Burton]

Johnny Benson, Kenny Wallace, and Ken Schrader all said that It was ok and a good move on Inside Winston Cup.

 

[gordon24fan]

Originally posted by Mopardh9@Jun 23 2003, 05:41 PM
Lets get rid of this passing under caution....as soon as the caution comes out that is it no racing for positions. Everyone is put back to their position where they were on the on the previous lap. Works for local short track racing and it will cut back on the possibility of a horrendous wreck racing back to the caution. There will be no sour grapes either and no gray area.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Whizzer]

For once ole DW is right. Throw the "gentlemans agreement" out the window. Robbie gave everyone a heads up at the drivers meeting by asking the question three times. And Robbie did win fair and square. There isn't even a question about a rule violation.

In one respect, there has been a "gentlemans agreement" on passing under caution for so many years I can't recall when it began. The agreement was in place because because the drivers had safety concerns for themselves and the other racers, permitting them to hold thier positions without worrying about weaving through wreckage.
Even though the gang on the Monday night show agree it is okay to race back to the line, none of them broke the rule. They all honored it.

It doesn't matter why Jeff Gordon or Kevin Harvick feel it was a chickensh*t move by Robbie Gordon. They both said what was on thier minds and for whatever reason they did it, the fact remains, a long standing "gentlemans agreement" honored in the past could become history. The rule became a joke when one driver let another driver get a lap back.

In my opinion, the only thing NASCAR can do at this point is to get thier a$$ in gear and have the necessary electronic equipment available for the next race and the race scored at the time the caution is thrown no matter where the cars are on the track. This will solves two potentially dangerous situations. First the possibility of a more serious wreck and second, eliminates teams who permit others to get thier lap back.
Anybody wanna bet how long it will be before NASCAR puts this in place??

 

[muggle not]

Nascar needs to make sure that all teams are on the same page regarding "racing back to yellow". I don't blame the individual teams at this point, Nascar appears to be at fault.

 

[DirtyMo1381529]

Originally posted by Whizzer@Jun 24 2003, 08:48 AM
Anybody wanna bet how long it will be before NASCAR puts this in place??

Knowing Nascar, it will take them for forever but I'm think that Nextel might have a bigger influence in hurrying Nascar desicions. I remember Helton saying something after the Texas incident, that they were pretty close to developing the freezing the field systems.

 

[Whizzer]

Originally posted by de7xwcc+Jun 23 2003, 07:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (de7xwcc @ Jun 23 2003, 07:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -majestyx@Jun 23 2003, 05:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--j ozzman 5000

@Jun 23 2003, 12:42 PM

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

ol' jethro seems to foget when he passed kenseth while racing back to the yellow at texas.
i say screw the gentlemens agreement.
this is NASCAR. not IRL.

Completely different situation at Texas.

can you explain what is different about it ? a pass under caution is a pass under caution. [/b][/quote]
The pass under caution is easy to explain. Kurt Busch was racing back to the caution. Jeff needed to keep him a lap down. The instigator was Busch, not Gordon.
Jeff was paying Busch the highest compliment he could by keeping Busch a lap down. In effect Gordon was saying "I look at you as a threat to win".

Had Busch not RACED back to the caution, Gordon would not have RACED to keep him a lap down. Kurt Busch was at fault for doing what has been the widely accepted practice of RACING back to the caution flag to get a lap back.

The drivers cannot have it both ways. RACING to the caution to get a lap back is the same thing as RACING back to the caution to improve your position.
As for the drivers, get your lap back the old fashioned way, earn it.

 

[majestyx]

Thanks, Whizzer. You said it for me.

 

[24thunder]

Originally posted by j ozzman 5000@Jun 23 2003, 12:42 PM

But Jeff Gordon, who finished second, was happy to chime in.

"I'll comment for him. That's a bunch of crap right there," Gordon said. "Anybody who races back under caution like that, I don't know where his mind is.

ol' jethro seems to foget when he passed kenseth while racing back to the yellow at texas.
i say screw the gentlemens agreement.
this is NASCAR. not IRL.

NASCAR put Jeff Gordon back to 2nd place though,in that instance,thereby letting Kurt Busch get His lap back!NASCAR's inconsistency in calls/non-calls really irk Me at times!

 

[97forever]

Well,you folks said it for me too.

It should from this point forward be in Jeff's best interest to try every thing he can to keep Kurt from winning.Bump him,crash him,ask NASCAR to ban him,keep the elf from EVER getting back on the lead lap if possible.

And Jeff knows why...he can see the tide turning:

KURT BUSCH can beat him like a dish rag!Driving school Vegas style!

 

[majestyx]

I think we've said/read enough on this subject. Consider it closed.