Penalties, Fines & Suspensions

klemmabyna

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do we just expect and accept "cheating" with all the new ways they inspect the cars?

from:
http://www.espn.com/jayski/pages/story/_/id/18837023/nascar-penalties-fines-suspensions-2017

Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series Points Penalties / Suspensions for the 2017 season

Talladega (5/7): #43-Almirola, 35 drivers/owners pts; failed postrace measurements; crew chief Drew Blickensderfer fined $65,000/suspended 3 races (no appeal)

Richmond (4/30): #22-Logano, 25 drivers/owners pts; rear suspension violation; crew chief Todd Gordon fined $50,000/suspended 2 races (no appeal)

Phoenix (3/19): #2-Keselowski; 35 drivers/owners pt; failed postrace inspection/rear steer of more than 0.56 degrees of skew; crew chief Paul Wolfe fined $65,000/suspended 3 races (all appeals lost)

Phoenix (3/19): #4-Harvick; 10 drivers/owners pts; unapproved track bar slider assembly; crew chief Rodney Childers fined $25,000/suspended 1 race (no appeal)

Daytona (2/26): #47-Allmendinger; 35 drivers/owners pts; loose lug nuts; crew chief Randall Burnett fined $65,000/suspended 3 races (appeal lost)
 

Zerkfitting

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I think it is a time honored tradition to work the grey areas of the rules. It is innovation when your team does it and cheating when a team you don’t like does it. The spirit of Smokey Yunick represents all “innovators” past and present.

The rule book has expanded because of race team innovations. I recall reading a long time ago that NASCAR hired one of the best innovators at the time to catch those stretching the rules. I commend NASCAR for trying to keep the playing field even. If they don’t and a team dominates, they will loose fans.

It is a constant battle; when NASCAR finds something they don’t like, they make a rule. Race teams are clever and always seem to come up with something new.

Monetary fines don’t work, it’s the cost of doing business. I think taking away points and possibly the finishing position is the best way to raise the penalty for getting around the rules. But it isn’t a black and white issue, there are minor violations and more significant violations – that’s NASCAR’s call.
 

LewTheShoe

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^ Good post, Zerk. I'll add that the complaints we often hear about how the standards are too exact, the requirements are too precise... all that is bogus garbage. There are no required standards or specified measurements that are particularly precise in what is required. They all have an allowed range that is easily met by any team.

The problems come from a team aiming to live at the very edge of the allowed range. The burden is on the team not to go over. Get as close as you dare to the end of the range, but don't go over. When a team goes over, even by a tiny amount, that means they have missed the rulebook requirement by *all* of the allowable range *plus* a little more. Nascar has to measure that precisely and call it every time it is over that line. Arguing that measurements should be inaccurate (tape measure rather than laser) is ridiculous. That would be unfair and inconsistent.
 

sdj

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You would think that after running 500 hard pounding laps, that you would expect a little movement in stuff, such as the thickness of a doubled up 20 dollar bill that that Almorola
s crew chief showed on Race Hub this week. He stated that is how far off they were, the thickness of a folded 20 dollar bill.
 

LewTheShoe

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You would think that after running 500 hard pounding laps, that you would expect a little movement in stuff, such as the thickness of a doubled up 20 dollar bill that that Almorolas crew chief showed on Race Hub this week. He stated that is how far off they were, the thickness of a folded 20 dollar bill.
Yes, that is what Drew Blickensderfer said. But what his careful choice of words obscured was that the measurement was off spec by the *entire* allowable range *plus* that much more. The line must be drawn somewhere. The allowable range has plenty of room to account for the rigors of 500 hard miles.
 

BOWTIE GUY

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why have all these rules? just limit the amount of cubic inches they can have and run what they got. then we will see who the best is.
 
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I think it is a time honored tradition to work the grey areas of the rules. It is innovation when your team does it and cheating when a team you don’t like does it. The spirit of Smokey Yunick represents all “innovators” past and present.

The rule book has expanded because of race team innovations. I recall reading a long time ago that NASCAR hired one of the best innovators at the time to catch those stretching the rules. I commend NASCAR for trying to keep the playing field even. If they don’t and a team dominates, they will loose fans.

It is a constant battle; when NASCAR finds something they don’t like, they make a rule. Race teams are clever and always seem to come up with something new.

Monetary fines don’t work, it’s the cost of doing business. I think taking away points and possibly the finishing position is the best way to raise the penalty for getting around the rules. But it isn’t a black and white issue, there are minor violations and more significant violations – that’s NASCAR’s call.
That Guy they hired was Gary Nelson..... he was a pretty slick crew chief.... He took over for Dick Beatty..... I liked Beatty the best... he was competition director for years.... he wasn't a hardass..... he was fair and everyone liked him.... He played it like a cat and mouse game....
 

Revman

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You would think that after running 500 hard pounding laps, that you would expect a little movement in stuff, such as the thickness of a doubled up 20 dollar bill that that Almorola
s crew chief showed on Race Hub this week. He stated that is how far off they were, the thickness of a folded 20 dollar bill.
Didn't expect anything less from Drew.
 

klemmabyna

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kymartin6:

"...I liked Beatty the best... he was competition director for years..."

you've been around as long as me!!! heard a bunch of Dick Beatty stories. all were told with a humorous twist.
 
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kymartin6:

"...I liked Beatty the best... he was competition director for years..."

you've been around as long as me!!! heard a bunch of Dick Beatty stories. all were told with a humorous twist.
I will always miss him..... You are right in every way..... He was the best story teller ever ....... He had no animosity at all for anyone trying to bend the rules and put something by him.... He appreciated the innovation.... He had a whole garage full of confiscated stuff.... I would have loved to have toured it and heard him tell the story behind each and every piece......

Those were much simpler days ...... more fun ...... and more fans just having a good time....
 

LewTheShoe

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why have all these rules? just limit the amount of cubic inches they can have and run what they got. then we will see who the best is.
Are you joking or serious? There aren't enough engineers in the Carolinas nor enough dollars in Fort Knox to do what you suggest.
 
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