Plate racing needs to go!

StandOnIt said:
Probably ought to look no farther than the local commute. They have made vehicles so much safer to drive, with air bags, belts and 4 wheel disc brakes, that many over drive their abilities while yapping on a cell phone. Nothing is close to what it was 20 years ago, and no telling what the next 20 will bring.
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Hopefully the next 20 will take the control completely out of the drivers' hands; then they can yap and tap all they want without endangering the rest of us.
 
StandOnIt said:
this might help your confusion :rolleyes:
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"the Cup cars have had tapered spacers (1-inch thick aluminum) at all races the last few years. The holes will be smaller for Daytona/Dega since there won't be the additional restrictor plate "
Okay, so instead of a tapered spacer AND a restrictor plate, there will just be a spacer with smaller holes? I fail to see the effective difference, but I'm open to explanation.
 
Yup, Plate Racing Needs To Go

To Fontana!

Start/Restarts would be mandated 4 wide on the front row. Circle that big wide track at WOT.

Come on NASCAR, don’t nibble anymore, go all in and forget about speed — make ‘em “race”!
 
Charlie Spencer said:
"the Cup cars have had tapered spacers (1-inch thick aluminum) at all races the last few years. The holes will be smaller for Daytona/Dega since there won't be the additional restrictor plate "
Okay, so instead of a tapered spacer AND a restrictor plate, there will just be a spacer with smaller holes? I fail to see the effective difference, but I'm open to explanation.
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Having one component instead of two components will lead to less waste head loss between the two at the interface. Minor in the grand scheme of things.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
"the Cup cars have had tapered spacers (1-inch thick aluminum) at all races the last few years. The holes will be smaller for Daytona/Dega since there won't be the additional restrictor plate "
Okay, so instead of a tapered spacer AND a restrictor plate, there will just be a spacer with smaller holes? I fail to see the effective difference, but I'm open to explanation.
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it has been explained many times.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
"the Cup cars have had tapered spacers (1-inch thick aluminum) at all races the last few years. The holes will be smaller for Daytona/Dega since there won't be the additional restrictor plate "
Okay, so instead of a tapered spacer AND a restrictor plate, there will just be a spacer with smaller holes? I fail to see the effective difference, but I'm open to explanation.
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Given what Pockrass reported there, never mind what I've been saying about Daytona and Talladega having potential to be substantially improved by the new package. I was assuming from previous comments that they thought they could run the spacers they're running at intermediates this year with the 550 HP target and keep speeds where they want them (due to the increased drag). If they are running spacers with smaller holes to replicate the existing level of HP at these tracks, only with more downforce, no, this will not be a meaningful improvement. There may be a slight gain in throttle response, as yes one point of restriction is more efficient than two, but it will be minor.
 
like I said Nascar walks a tight rope. Cars can and will fly despite all of the flaps, wings, skirts or whatever. The tapered spacer is going to make it easier to inspect, provide better throttle response, but they ain't going to gain 20 MPH. It could increase the closing speeds when a car gets a run I'm thinking. They should accelerate faster with the tapered spacer. Something to look for at Dega.
 
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gnomesayin said:
Given what Pockrass reported there, never mind what I've been saying about Daytona and Talladega having potential to be substantially improved by the new package. I was assuming from previous comments that they thought they could run the spacers they're running at intermediates this year with the 550 HP target and keep speeds where they want them (due to the increased drag). If they are running spacers with smaller holes to replicate the existing level of HP at these tracks, only with more downforce, no, this will not be a meaningful improvement. There may be a slight gain in throttle response, as yes one point of restriction is more efficient than two, but it will be minor.
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That's kinda what I thought. I'm hoping someone will present a explanation that holds more promise for changes to the racing at these two tracks.
 
StandOnIt said:
like I said Nascar walks a tight rope. Cars can and will fly despite all of the flaps, wings, skirts or whatever. The tapered spacer is going to make it easier to inspect, provide better throttle response, but they ain't going to gain 20 MPH. It could increase the closing speeds when a car gets a run I'm thinking. The should accelerate faster with the tapered spacer. Something to look for at Dega.
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An improvement in acceleration is what I'd like to see.
 
NASCAR has become Detuning Experts

with innovative ways to make a race engine less powerful, but in a “good way”...

===

“Hey mister, why not just build a smaller less powerful engine?”

“Sacrilege!”
 
Privateer said:
I think the fear of death or serious injury has been so removed from auto racing that drivers just don't respect one another anymore. It is a sport-wide thing. Verstappen in F1 drives with no respect for anyone. Wickens' crash at Pocono last year, he went for a hole that wasn't there. Go back 20 years and he would've been smart enough to not do that move. It's absolutely true in NASCAR, where the sanctioning body responded to Dale Earnhardt's death by making the cars undriveable tanks, so they could continue wrecking one another at will while destroying the racing. I think when I mostly gave up on Daytona and Talladega was when Keselowski flipped over Edwards at the finish and NASCAR's response was "that was fine, he didn't go underneath the double yellow line". How is it impossibly preferred that we send a guy airborne toward the catch fence to a guy taking an evasive maneuver onto PAVEMENT! The drivers meanwhile think it's all stupid but mostly keep their mouths shut, although Stenhouse had to do the Ernie Irvan speech last year.

Look at what the Daytona 500 is now, it's been won by Trevor Bayne who has been kicked out of a 40-car Cup grid because he wasn't good enough, and Austin Dillon, who won because he created a multi-car accident. What value is there?
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Hmmm for NASCAR, I think the fear has been greatly reduced but there's still some frightening things that can happen if you just look at semi-recent events (Hamlin spinal fracture, Almirola spinal fracture, KyBu's leg, etc). I think the driver's are smart enough to respect that across the board. I don't think they are unfamiliar with concussion issues (sub-concussive hits) either and would rather not rack those up. I also don't think NASCAR's motivation to make the cars safer and the tracks safer was propelled by wanting them to wreck more often either. There has been real tragedy that has happened, everyone should want to prevent that from happening.

Sure I think some of the driver's can feel a little invincible in the cars at times, you have to at this level imo, to the have the confidence and aggressiveness to be successful, you can't be thinking about the fear of injury while you're in the car, but at the same time you have to respect the possible dangers.

I do agree with your general point of the safer it is, the more aggressive the driver's feel like they can be. Although, aggressive driving (bad moves) have always happened, maybe not to the degree or frequency it does today, I am not sure if that's true or false.
 
iu
iu
 
Ventisca said:
NASCAR has become Detuning Experts

with innovative ways to make a race engine less powerful, but in a “good way”...

===

“Hey mister, why not just build a smaller less powerful engine?”

“Sacrilege!”
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what would a smaller motor fix?
 
StandOnIt said:
what would a smaller motor fix?
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I look at it as a more direct path to the goal of matching powerplant to purpose. Right now it’s a convoluted path to making a 800+ hp motor something less.

All that uneccessary reciprocating mass and engineering to tolerate it, seems like an impediment for racing efficiency.

Right now NASCAR is a racing image, not a modern series and I’m OK with that.
 
750 is the HP they are using at tracks less than 1.2 miles, 14 races, and 750 is a nominal figure. No ducts for those races also
Phoenix-1, Martinsville-1, Bristol-1, Richmond-1, Dover-1, Sonoma, New Hampshire, Watkins Glen, Bristol-2, Richmond-2, Charlotte-2 (road course), Dover-2, Martinsville-2, Phoenix-2
 
Since things are changing....... We'll never find out what Jr had under his hood in the 01 Pepsi 400 from Daytona. I'll always believe that dude had a different restrictor plate or engine combo that the others had. The most dominant super speedway car I have ever seen in my years of being a fan.
 
Snappy D said:
Since things are changing....... We'll never find out what Jr had under his hood in the 01 Pepsi 400 from Daytona. I'll always believe that dude had a different restrictor plate or engine combo that the others had. The most dominant super speedway car I have ever seen in my years of being a fan.
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Too bad there aren’t any true journalists in NASCAR. Pockrass comes close.

Trust no one — especially the France family trying to sell you on The Show!

BUT — the fact that JR never won a Cup Championship kinda settles it for me that any grand conspiracy or script is not that likely. Maybe an occasional look-the-other-way for the “good of the sport”...
 
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Snappy D said:
Since things are changing....... We'll never find out what Jr had under his hood in the 01 Pepsi 400 from Daytona. I'll always believe that dude had a different restrictor plate or engine combo that the others had. The most dominant super speedway car I have ever seen in my years of being a fan.
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Those DEI cars (specifically the 8) had an advantage getting through the corners. Don’t know if it was suspension or engine related but they always gapped everyone else through the corners. Never seen anything else like it.
 
Snappy D said:
Since things are changing....... We'll never find out what Jr had under his hood in the 01 Pepsi 400 from Daytona. I'll always believe that dude had a different restrictor plate or engine combo that the others had. The most dominant super speedway car I have ever seen in my years of being a fan.
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His dad's RP car in 1990 was the most dominant i've ever seen. Won 3 our of the 4 rp races and would have went 4 for 4 if it wasn't for a the damn cut tire in the 500.
 
JBone88 said:
Those DEI cars (specifically the 8) had an advantage getting through the corners. Don’t know if it was suspension or engine related but they always gapped everyone else through the corners. Never seen anything else like it.
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you are so correct, I was just watching that race at my lunch after I posted....... his car literally looked like it was going faster through the corners while keeping grip. It was a like a video game turbo button.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
His dad's RP car in 1990 was the most dominant i've ever seen. Won 3 our of the 4 rp races and would have went 4 for 4 if it wasn't for a the damn cut tire in the 500.
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Ahhh you might be correct havent watched the 90 Daytona 500/Speedweeks in a while. Might give that a whirl on Youtube after the Twin 125's tonight
 
I thought Daytona and Talladega would have the same spacer as everywhere else but the added aero bits would make them draggier and more stable, and keep the speeds roughly the same. Now I'm confused, but I guess we'll see at Talladega in a few months.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I thought Daytona and Talladega would have the same spacer as everywhere else but the added aero bits would make them draggier and more stable, and keep the speeds roughly the same. Now I'm confused, but I guess we'll see at Talladega in a few months.
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Probably need to look at the trucks and Xfinity, they run a tapered spacer at Daytona I believe. I'm like you, I don't know if any more or less speed is involved, but there is a heck of a lot more passing usually.
 
When I cared about points and where my driver finished I absolutely abhorred plate racing. Now I just enjoy the chaos and entertainment. I also like reading the emotional post race rants. That being said, I still care about the fact that NASCAR should be about performance. Having Talladega in the playoffs is just wrong to me due to the random nature of the race results. Being denied a playoff advance because someone wrecks half the field just sucks.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Have you ever watched the in-car from a plate race? You'd lose control and put it in the wall before you finish your first lap. It's not just leisurely putting your foot down and going fast, those cars are still a beast to handle.
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I'm very cautios when it comes to these type of things. I'm sure I'd take it easy the first few laps while I get accostumed to the vehicle before turning it up a notch.
 
Snappy D said:
Since things are changing....... We'll never find out what Jr had under his hood in the 01 Pepsi 400 from Daytona. I'll always believe that dude had a different restrictor plate or engine combo that the others had. The most dominant super speedway car I have ever seen in my years of being a fan.
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Don't forget the 2004 Daytona 500. I always thought DEI cheated on restrictor plate tracks.
 
My God you people advocating against plate tracks really need to give your head a shake. Wont happen. Ever. Never never ever aaaaint gona happennnnnnn... get over it

Oh and... it's not the tracks.. OR the package.. it's the DRIVERS! They have to finish the race to win it. To make a move u have to trust others to be able to keep it straight driving within inches of the next car going at about 200mph..eventually someone always screws up one way or another.. why would drivers fight for position on lap 100 knowing it.may end their race when they can pass 10 cars in one or two laps near the end if they place themselves correctly... its chess... and it's not often you see pro chess players flip over the board halfway through the game.
 
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Snappy D said:
Ahhh you might be correct havent watched the 90 Daytona 500/Speedweeks in a while. Might give that a whirl on Youtube after the Twin 125's tonight
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It's worth a watch! His car was unbelievable all Speedweeks! He had a 42 second lead at one point on a RP in the 500!! He was just destroying the competition.

Marlin also had a unique exhaust system in 1994 or 1995 that allowed him to crush it at the rp tracks. Morgan-McClure was the only team to have a contract with the company. I believe it was called Dr. Gas. It was the first exhaust to make the high pitch whine on rp tracks. By the next year everyone was running the same exhaust.
 
Ventisca said:
“Hey mister, why not just build a smaller less powerful engine?”
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No need, just change the gearing and 700 to 900 HP is totally useless.
Also downsize the size of the wheels to 14 inch will also slow the cars.
If they go to 13 " they can get the cars closer to the ground as well. :pbjtime:
 
Team Penske said:
No need, just change the gearing and 700 to 900 HP is totally useless.
Also downsize the size of the wheels to 14 inch will also slow the cars.
If they go to 13 " they can get the cars closer to the ground as well. :pbjtime:
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But with 12" rims. No need for those pesky equalizing inner-liners.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Oh and... it's not the tracks.. OR the package.. it's the DRIVERS! They have to finish the race to win it. To make a move u have to trust others to be able to keep it straight driving within inches of the next car going at about 200mph..eventually someone always screws up one way or another.. why would drivers fight for position on lap 100 knowing it.may end their race when they can pass 10 cars in one or two laps near the end if they place themselves correctly... its chess... and it's not often you see pro chess players flip over the board halfway through the game.
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It’s more like checkers for most of the race —

then a little Lottery Lane Pick towards the end...
 
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