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Practice/No Practice Thread

Revman

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Whatcha got? Gabehart says this is fine for smaller teams until sim becomes the end all....then they get priced out again. KB says his team is suffering without it. I think it's fine until fans come back...then lessens the weekend experience.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Whatcha got? Gabehart says this is fine for smaller teams until sim becomes the end all....then they get priced out again. KB says his team is suffering without it. I think it's fine until fans come back...then lessens the weekend experience.
The Pro Invitational Series proved that money doesn't really matter on the simulation side.

The fan experience can be enhanced by running two races in a single day or running doubleheader races or something. Even during its peak, people at the races were enjoying the party during practice, not sitting in the stands.
 

sdj

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To me Nascar racing live has been the WHOLE experience, practice was a time to relax watch some, go look at things hear the cars as you are looking around, get something to eat, go back watch some more, maybe focus on your driver during his practice. The fan zone at Daytona is a great palce to be during practice, you get to watch the teams fine tune the car etc etc. It is the WHOLE experience that makes going to a Nascar Race exciting and fun.
My Nascar live racing trips are comprised of a lot of things coordinated around the event, I plan 2 to 3 days to soak up as much as I can.
Practice and qualifying are fun when you are there, more so than on TV.
But, with this Covid BS going on, I will take what I can get and be happy with it.
 

Revman

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To me Nascar racing live has been the WHOLE experience, practice was a time to relax watch some, go look at things hear the cars as you are looking around, get something to eat, go back watch some more, maybe focus on your driver during his practice. The fan zone at Daytona is a great palce to be during practice, you get to watch the teams fine tune the car etc etc. It is the WHOLE experience that makes going to a Nascar Race exciting and fun.
My Nascar live racing trips are comprised of a lot of things coordinated around the event, I plan 2 to 3 days to soak up as much as I can.
Practice and qualifying are fun when you are there, more so than on TV.
But, with this Covid BS going on, I will take what I can get and be happy with it.
I agree with this 100%. I did like the Pocono double header in the context of giving teams an opportunity to improve one race to the next. Having said that, I love chill Fridays at the track with only the most intense fans.....trying to figure out if MY Toyotas were good. Qualifying is fun. Sitting there just watching cars go around. Love it.....and I hope I haven't seen the last of it, but I am guessing that I won't see as much of it if any.....I do agree that the at track experience with practice and qualifying is better than TV.
 

Spotter22

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Whatcha got? Gabehart says this is fine for smaller teams until sim becomes the end all....then they get priced out again. KB says his team is suffering without it. I think it's fine until fans come back...then lessens the weekend experience.
If I'm on the traveling crew I love it. But seriously, until things straighten out I dont see it coming back and maybe not then. You wouldnt believe ho much money they are saving.
 

Revman

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If I'm on the traveling crew I love it. But seriously, until things straighten out I dont see it coming back and maybe not then. You wouldnt believe ho much money they are saving.
Yeah, I am not counting on it coming back for sure....but, at some point, we will get the new car, and pre-race practice will become a necessity I would think if you are not going to dedicated tests....
 

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I'm just a fan and only have talked to someone who works for a late model team and idk how the money scales, but would one 30 minute - 1 hour practice be that logistically difficult? I've wondered that since Jimmie said he had something wrong with his car at a race this yr that wouldve been fixed easily with a quick practice session.
 

StandOnIt

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Practice disadvantages mid-field runners and back-markers and adds cost for everyone.

I don't miss it.
I agree and in the tough economic times racing is going thru, a little common sense and reasoning should override personal wishes. Most of the teams took the government loans to stay above water for now, but they have to pay those loans back and make enough to keep it going on top of that.
 

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I don’t think it’ll be back for a while for obvious reasons, except in unique circumstances like the Indy and Daytona road courses. When they do I think they’ll reduce the total number of sessions and available track time though. FOX didn’t seem to care much about practice anymore in 2019 but it still holds value to NBC, I could see one one-hour session per series maybe.
 

JGR_20

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I honestly enjoy EXACTLY what they’ve been doing for the last few months.

i enjoy drawing for starting spots... no practice... and the big one I enjoy is having the mid weeks races. It’s fun, feels like there is NASCAR Cup action evolving all week long, instead of just one race each week.

I understand nascar was backed into most of the Circumstances from COVID. But if they could duplicate this idea into future schedules it would be a win in my books.
 

MRM

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I kind of like not having practice. It leaves some suspense as to who the best cars are for that race, even though it's usually the 4, 11, and throw in 22, 2, 9, 18 rotating from week to week.
 

Nitro Dude

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I bet the drivers and crews enjoy not having to practice...crew chiefs maybe not. :)
 

Dr_B_UNC

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For the most part, practice is useless today. I've heard Jeff Hammond and Ray Evernham both say that you can't really make a huge gain on a car any more like you used to be able to. Grip is mostly aero, so you can't take huge swings in the setup and change the car very much. The sims and engineering along with the rules package have put the crew chiefs into a very narrow potential box. All practice does is give them a chance to try different lines with no consequence and fine tune heights, tolerances, etc.

For my .02, I'd like to see a Saturday short track approach. Arrive, tech, 30-45 minutes warm up/practice, qualify, then race that afternoon. Make practice a pre-race draw much like they tried to with qualifying a year or two ago at some tracks.

Loss of qualifying has been more of a detriment to the racing than loss of practice imho.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Loss of qualifying has been more of a detriment to the racing than loss of practice imho.
Qualifying is useless and starting the field straight up with the fastest car on pole makes the races even more boring - ESPECIALLY in short track racing.

I can't stand how much practice there is in asphalt racing, followed by qualifying, then starting the field straight up from qualifying.

The number of pavement Late Model races I've seen in the past couple years where they can run 80-100 laps without a single on track pass, it's ridiculous.
 

Pat

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The Pro Invitational Series proved that money doesn't really matter on the simulation side.

The fan experience can be enhanced by running two races in a single day or running doubleheader races or something. Even during its peak, people at the races were enjoying the party during practice, not sitting in the stands
Practice day was the day I wanted a pit pass.. much more than race day. Lots of good pictures and autographs to be had on practice day.
 

Revman

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I agree and in the tough economic times racing is going thru, a little common sense and reasoning should override personal wishes. Most of the teams took the government loans to stay above water for now, but they have to pay those loans back and make enough to keep it going on top of that.
Without question, during this time, this schedule makes sense.
 

ChexOrWrex

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1 team is constantly complaining about a lack of practice but yet their teammate is having a career season and is a favorite for the championship so far.

It brings out the best from the minds in the shop and the minds at the track during the race. The cream will always rise to the top. Comers and goers. Extra variables.

My vote goes to keeping practice out of the equation. Run what you brung.
 

Revman

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1 team is constantly complaining about a lack of practice but yet their teammate is having a career season and is a favorite for the championship so far.

It brings out the best from the minds in the shop and the minds at the track during the race. The cream will always rise to the top. Comers and goers. Extra variables.

My vote goes to keeping practice out of the equation. Run what you brung.
Oh, I hear you, but really, at this time last year, Kyle was bitching about the package, and he won the whole damn thing. I really think it's just like MTJ....who whines under stress....Adam will figure it out, and Kyle will adapt...in time. Nevertheless, I would like to see something prior to Sunday to build anticipation....be it a race, practice, or qualifying--particularly if I am at the track...

The other piece of this is track time for the new kids. We have never figured out the incubation period for the rookies after testing was abolished. Reduce the practice time, and we are talking about lengthening that incubation period. The Erik Jones negotiations may speak to that.
 

Greg

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I could see it being limited more on a permanent basis (but not totally eliminated).
It is a cost saving measure and fits in with the 5 minute clock and other cost cutting rules.

If I was going to go bold prediction I would say a single combination practice qualifying session on the same day or in the afternoon the day before the race.
But even that will take some time and after Covid becomes less of a concern.
 

ChexOrWrex

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Oh, I hear you, but really, at this time last year, Kyle was bitching about the package, and he won the whole damn thing. I really think it's just like MTJ....who whines under stress....Adam will figure it out, and Kyle will adapt...in time. Nevertheless, I would like to see something prior to Sunday to build anticipation....be it a race, practice, or qualifying--particularly if I am at the track...

The other piece of this is track time for the new kids. We have never figured out the incubation period for the rookies after testing was abolished. Reduce the practice time, and we are talking about lengthening that incubation period. The Erik Jones negotiations may speak to that.
I’m ok with it being a single day event like the ASR. Qualify directly before the race.
 

Revman

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I could see it being limited more on a permanent basis (but not totally eliminated).
It is a cost saving measure and fits in with the 5 minute clock and other cost cutting rules.

If I was going to go bold prediction I would say a single combination practice qualifying session on the same day or in the afternoon the day before the race.
But even that will take some time and after Covid becomes less of a concern.
I agree 100% here.....I really do wish, however, that our rookies could get some more track time. Sponsors want a return yesterday, and those guys need the track time IMO.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Oh, I hear you, but really, at this time last year, Kyle was bitching about the package, and he won the whole damn thing. I really think it's just like MTJ....who whines under stress....Adam will figure it out, and Kyle will adapt...in time. Nevertheless, I would like to see something prior to Sunday to build anticipation....be it a race, practice, or qualifying--particularly if I am at the track...

The other piece of this is track time for the new kids. We have never figured out the incubation period for the rookies after testing was abolished. Reduce the practice time, and we are talking about lengthening that incubation period. The Erik Jones negotiations may speak to that.
The younger guys seem to be doing better lately though. Reddick's a beast. Bell is running well. Nemechek has had good runs. Bubba Wallace is consistently running inside the top-15/top-20.

I think what's happening is that the superteams can't share information amongst each other during practice and have time to figure it out. If we had practice, we'd see Almirola, Bowyer and Custer up there with Harvick, and we'd see KyBu, Jones and Truex up there with Hamlin, and we'd see Dillon running better as Reddick tears it up, and we'd see Byron and Bowman up there with Elliott. The result would be guys like Wallace and Nemecheck running outside the top-20.
 

Snappy D

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This is a cool thread. Not gonna lie though I miss practice. I miss reading (I’ll be frank, I didn’t watch much practice I’m usually at work when they are doing that) about how teams worked and adjusted on their cars during the sessions. I always loved that about racing the constant tinkering on the cars after driver feedback to make it run faster, and especially as a high level as nascar I just love reading or watching that stuff. I do think most weekends won’t have 3 practices once things go back to hopefully normal because of cost effectiveness and we see the results now on race day. Maybe one practice on a Friday morning or midday. Then qualifying late Friday. One after the Xfinity series race (happy hour) and we’re good to go.
 

LewTheShoe

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Practice disadvantages mid-field runners and back-markers and adds cost for everyone.

I don't miss it.
I do miss practice and qualifying because, as a traditionalist / purist type of fan, I oppose anything that reduces Cup racing as a meritocracy. At the highest level of racing, confirming and fine tuning the setup is integral to a merit based outcome. That's just my opinion, and I realize many people love race procedures that make things more random, not less random.

However, in this crazy year of 2020, I realize and embrace that NASCAR has to adjust priorities, fight against COVID spread, and find ways to slash team expenses. One-day shows without backup cars are crucial this year. I'm fine with the adjustments NASCAR has made.

I think we'll see the same thing next year as well. Delaying the Gen 7 car until 2022 is a big financial hit to the teams. Gen 7 cars will cost less per car, and each team will need much fewer of them. so the one year delay will mean more manpower and more cost in 2021. Scheduling one-day shows next year will offset part of that cost. When Gen 7 comes on stream in 2022, practice and qualifying will resume, I predict.
 

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I think a 30 minute practice session, 10 lap qualifying heats just like they are doing the draws now (12/12/the rest), and race. That's enough to scrub a set of tires, find SNAFU's, pick your spot on the grid, and go.
 

Speedbowl14

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I want two 30-minute practice sessions.

To be fair, Cup has done a very good job cutting down on practice. 10+ years ago 3-5 practice sessions for a race weekend were common. But also I think that was more fair to teams trying to qualify back when cars were sent home. Now that that's not an issue no reason for practice to be over an hour to work out kinks and adjust setups- but no more stripping down the car and re-building it as was commonplace pre-2012 or so.
 

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I am happy with the things the way they are now. I would like to say one thing, if Kyle is running poorly and Deny is running great, maybe Kyle needs a CC who can think for himself rather than having Kyle do all the work during practice. Once the race has started, how come Kyle can't make suggestions that would fine tune the car. Is the car so far off when it hits the track?? Could a CC change be coming for KB??
 

JGR_20

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I am happy with the things the way they are now. I would like to say one thing, if Kyle is running poorly and Deny is running great, maybe Kyle needs a CC who can think for himself rather than having Kyle do all the work during practice. Once the race has started, how come Kyle can't make suggestions that would fine tune the car. Is the car so far off when it hits the track?? Could a CC change be coming for KB??
Prediction: Denny and Kyle to switch CC’s in 2021 :D
 

Revman

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This is a cool thread. Not gonna lie though I miss practice. I miss reading (I’ll be frank, I didn’t watch much practice I’m usually at work when they are doing that) about how teams worked and adjusted on their cars during the sessions. I always loved that about racing the constant tinkering on the cars after driver feedback to make it run faster, and especially as a high level as nascar I just love reading or watching that stuff. I do think most weekends won’t have 3 practices once things go back to hopefully normal because of cost effectiveness and we see the results now on race day. Maybe one practice on a Friday morning or midday. Then qualifying late Friday. One after the Xfinity series race (happy hour) and we’re good to go.
Great post. The thing that struck me from my very first race was all of the work it takes just to be prepared for the green. The other amazing sensation for me was that Sunday was the first day to see and hear all of the cars on track at once after two days of tinkering. It was kind of cool. I get all of the practical reasons for changing how we do things, but I will miss the old way. I think you will see an hour on a Saturday morning, qualifying, and then race on Sundays most weekends. Having said that, you will see more double headers which will change all of that as well.
 

jws926

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As a fan, you bet I miss practice, watching practice has been a part of my Friday routine for 36 weeks a year for a long time now, I find it interesting to watch. I think moving forward, I think some practice is need, there is only so much the sims can do, the simulation can't tell you that you forget to tightening an oil line, or tungsten is gonna fall out when you take the green flag( yes, the shops guys should make sure there are no issues with the car before it leaves the shop, agreed!). Moving forward maybe cut practice time down just one hour, maybe and hour and half and then qualify.
 

Revman

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I am happy with the things the way they are now. I would like to say one thing, if Kyle is running poorly and Deny is running great, maybe Kyle needs a CC who can think for himself rather than having Kyle do all the work during practice. Once the race has started, how come Kyle can't make suggestions that would fine tune the car. Is the car so far off when it hits the track?? Could a CC change be coming for KB??
Adam is going nowhere. Two Championships in five seasons when there were 0 before then probably guarantees that. Adam does plenty of thinking for himself, but Kyle gives a ton of information. How do you think that would go down if a CC told him to shut up, and he'd take it from here? The car has been just fine at the end of races, but Kyle has not been able to live with it long enough to maintain decent track position. They will get something better figured out, but I bet they are both really pissed that they will have to live with this package for another year.
 

Magnethead

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As a fan, you bet I miss practice, watching practice has been a part of my Friday routine for 36 weeks a year for a long time now, I find it interesting to watch. I think moving forward, I think some practice is need, there is only so much the sims can do, the simulation can't tell you that you forget to tightening an oil line, or tungsten is gonna fall out when you take the green flag( yes, the shops guys should make sure there are no issues with the car before it leaves the shop, agreed!). Moving forward maybe cut practice time down just one hour, maybe and hour and half and then qualify.
In all fairness, They could also run the cars on a chassis dyno for 10-15 minutes before putting it in the box....
 

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I've been liking the no practice change. It adds a premium to the driver/crew chief communication and the team making changes during the race. We are seeing some mid pack teams running with the big dogs. I can see adding practice for selected (significant) races.

I would like to see qualifying (consider it a lap of practice).
 

Mispeedway15

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I think they need some hot laps at least but the full hour of practice probably is not needed. Could do 15 minutes of hot laps and then qualifying after on Fridays?
 
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