No saleout but still had 30,000 more people show up for the race than at Darlington. That's a bunch of green. Bristol has had more exciting finishes than most tracks. One good finish at Darlington could not and will not save it. Even that finish hasn't done anything to sell more tickets at a race there since. The best thing Darlington has done to help itself was to add lights. It might be too little too late.
de7xwcc
Anarchist
30,000 more in a market 100 times as big as Darlington......
don't say much for the west coast does it
by the way if you think the 97,32 finish was theonly good one at darlington you surly haven't been watchin very long
don't say much for the west coast does it
by the way if you think the 97,32 finish was theonly good one at darlington you surly haven't been watchin very long
barelypure
Spectator
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2002
- Messages
- 6,695
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- 0
Someone please list the southern tracks that have been lost to the new NASCAR:
Hickory, NWilkes, SBos, Bowman, Myrtle, etc.
Now then, someone convince me that the racing is better.
Didn't think so...
Hickory, NWilkes, SBos, Bowman, Myrtle, etc.
Now then, someone convince me that the racing is better.
Didn't think so...
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esorlxaw
Guest
I was talking about tuning in to the race and not going to the track...for instance, if there was going to be a race in Bowling Green here, and I wasn't a fan, I would be more likely to watch it on tv (advertising dollars) than I would if it weren't in Bowling Green...but I agree with what you're saying.
de7xwcc
Anarchist
say what ?? 
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Eagle1
Guest
Who said it wasn't a sellout?? Sure looked like one to me, and I was there. There were almost 9000 people in the infield camping park, + all the people in the suites both over the track and the suites over pit road. I heard it announced there were 92,000 people in the stands + these others. That's over 100,000 people almost twice what Darlington brought in and 2 1/2 times what the "Rock" attracted.
Even figuring all the seats at the price of the cheap seats, that's $6,500,000.00 to Darlingtons $2,925,000.00. That does not include camper fees, suites, Party Zone, Pit passes.
Even figuring all the seats at the price of the cheap seats, that's $6,500,000.00 to Darlingtons $2,925,000.00. That does not include camper fees, suites, Party Zone, Pit passes.
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dragonlady424
Guest
And the Bird Guy is right!!!!! I was there too!
If you think you saw a few empty seats, you are prolly right.
Those empty seats belonged to all them "fried Chickens"
that ran for shelter from the SoCal Desert Sun!!! LOL
It was 107 in the stands and the track temps were in the 135's.
Cali Speedway had installed misters under the stands
to aid the folks that needed to cool off! Sooooooooo, the people from the empty
seats you saw were under the stands with us!!! LOL
We stayed there and watched most of the race on the giant Jumbo Tron
right in front of us.
Call the NEW NASCAR what you will.
I don't think "Tradition" has anything to do with it.
It's just like any other sports venue, if it ain't making the $$$$,
it will be moved to where the $$$$ is. And don't go spouting that "T" word
in the name of your disappointment! Any business WILL go
to where the market is.
If you think you saw a few empty seats, you are prolly right.
Those empty seats belonged to all them "fried Chickens"
that ran for shelter from the SoCal Desert Sun!!! LOL
It was 107 in the stands and the track temps were in the 135's.
Cali Speedway had installed misters under the stands
to aid the folks that needed to cool off! Sooooooooo, the people from the empty
seats you saw were under the stands with us!!! LOL
We stayed there and watched most of the race on the giant Jumbo Tron
right in front of us.
Call the NEW NASCAR what you will.
I don't think "Tradition" has anything to do with it.
It's just like any other sports venue, if it ain't making the $$$$,
it will be moved to where the $$$$ is. And don't go spouting that "T" word
in the name of your disappointment! Any business WILL go
to where the market is.
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EatMorePossum
Guest
nascar.com
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EatMorePossum
Guest
Just like the NFL deserting Los Angeles I suppose.
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EatMorePossum
Guest
And mark my words, NASCAR will want to be back in a few places they left too before it's all over.
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4xchampncountin
Guest
In regards to people being interested in a race because of it's proximity to their homes, I submit...
I am actually a lot closer to Michigan International Speedway than I am to Martinsville, but I have never been to Michigan and have been to Martinsville quite a few times. Pocono, Chicagoland, Watkins Glen and a few others might be closer to me also, but they don't hold the interest to me that a good short track race does. Where it is is infinitely less important to me than how good the racing is. I might go to Pocono if it were within 10 miles of my house and I got free tickets, but then again I might not.
I am actually a lot closer to Michigan International Speedway than I am to Martinsville, but I have never been to Michigan and have been to Martinsville quite a few times. Pocono, Chicagoland, Watkins Glen and a few others might be closer to me also, but they don't hold the interest to me that a good short track race does. Where it is is infinitely less important to me than how good the racing is. I might go to Pocono if it were within 10 miles of my house and I got free tickets, but then again I might not.
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esorlxaw
Guest
my point was that YOU are already a fan...they are reaching out to NON FANS...they want more...they are trusting that current fans will remain LOYAL fans...
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DE_Wrangler_2
Guest
No sell out? Maybe there were a few seats left............who knows? The California race was full.........don't think it wasn't. 
The point is (and you can take your tradition and do whatever you might choose to do with it) NASCAR and any major sport is in the business of making money. Tradition, if it is a money loser, will fall victim to to the dollar every time. No professional sport will ever remain a professional sport if tradition gets in the way of profit. Most of the fans of NASCAR are fans due to the TV coverage (much like fans of the NFL or ML
. It's the tracks who want to butts in the seats..........the TV audience is for the networks to worry about. Darlington, North Wilkesboro, Rockingham and any number of other "traditional" tracks could not fill the seats enough to make the dollar..........they have no choice but to close (unless they have unlimited capital to support a hobby).
NASCAR, due to the leadership of the organization, is pretty close to the top of the food chain when it comes to putting on an auto race. That is something that everyone wanted to happen not too many years ago........"gee, lets show the world just how great this southeren sport of stock car racing is"! Well, guess what!! Y'all did what you wanted to do.......the world knows about NASCAR now! It's big time now, folks........and now some want to back up? Get real. Wake up. It ain't 1950 no more. Stop your whining. Stop trying to tell me (a 25 year fan) that I don't know NASCAR. What I don't know is the mentality of some that think that because I live outside the "traditional" NASCAR area I don't know what I'm talking about. Take it to bank, whiners...........y'all lost!! And the reason y'all lost is simple...........you never comprehended what NASCAR was dedicated to become. Somehow you feel NASCAR should treat you different........keep a loser track just because you are from the south and you "love" NASCAR! You folks sure should have backed up that "love" with a few more tickets. Sure would have solved all the heartache y'all are experiencing at the moment.
And for a non-sold out race it sure looked full to me!!
The point is (and you can take your tradition and do whatever you might choose to do with it) NASCAR and any major sport is in the business of making money. Tradition, if it is a money loser, will fall victim to to the dollar every time. No professional sport will ever remain a professional sport if tradition gets in the way of profit. Most of the fans of NASCAR are fans due to the TV coverage (much like fans of the NFL or ML. It's the tracks who want to butts in the seats..........the TV audience is for the networks to worry about. Darlington, North Wilkesboro, Rockingham and any number of other "traditional" tracks could not fill the seats enough to make the dollar..........they have no choice but to close (unless they have unlimited capital to support a hobby).NASCAR, due to the leadership of the organization, is pretty close to the top of the food chain when it comes to putting on an auto race. That is something that everyone wanted to happen not too many years ago........"gee, lets show the world just how great this southeren sport of stock car racing is"! Well, guess what!! Y'all did what you wanted to do.......the world knows about NASCAR now! It's big time now, folks........and now some want to back up? Get real. Wake up. It ain't 1950 no more. Stop your whining. Stop trying to tell me (a 25 year fan) that I don't know NASCAR. What I don't know is the mentality of some that think that because I live outside the "traditional" NASCAR area I don't know what I'm talking about. Take it to bank, whiners...........y'all lost!! And the reason y'all lost is simple...........you never comprehended what NASCAR was dedicated to become. Somehow you feel NASCAR should treat you different........keep a loser track just because you are from the south and you "love" NASCAR! You folks sure should have backed up that "love" with a few more tickets. Sure would have solved all the heartache y'all are experiencing at the moment.
And for a non-sold out race it sure looked full to me!!
Attachments
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EatMorePossum
Guest
Thank you. I will.
de7xwcc
Anarchist
EMP
they will never understand
they will never understand
B
boB
Guest
Folks,
I hate to tell you this, but if you're trying to enlighten either EMP or de7 to the reasons their southern tracks are loosing dates, you're simply wasting your time.
When I tried, I was told that my opinion was B.S.; it was strongly insinuated that because of my geographical location, I could not have any meainingful opinion and when I let them know that I'd spent more than a few years involved in the business, I was accused of thumping my chest and bragging.
But, these two boys are, by their own admission, "southern rednecks" and proud of it; when I quoted that term, I was accused of showing ignorance and arrogance,
and even though several others have attempted to point out the same facts to both of these gentlemen, they still seem unable to grasp the reality which surrounds NASCAR and its current growth.
I've previously tried, many times, to explain that NASCAR was, in fact, national in scope until RJR/Winston came on board in 1972. At that time the schedule was cut back drastically and, with only a couple of exceptions, became a regional organization, which it pretty much remained for the next twenty years. Only after sponsors started to demand expansion did the organization begin to look for new venues and growth in other areas of the country.
EMP and de7, National Associtation of Stock Car Automobile Racing; look at that first word in the name.
Then take a few minutes, look at the tracks this organization raced at during its early years. While there were many in the southeast, there were also quite a few as far north as Maine, as far west as California, Oregon and a whole bunch of others all across the country.
One of the original, stated goals of Bill France Sr. was to have a NATIONAL organization which could, and would, be larger than the Champ Car Circuit (AAA a and IMCA) of that time. I'd have to say he and his heirs have succeeded quite well. With the current marketing of their organization, I would expect to see continued growth for the foreseeable future as well; but I realize that is not what some here would want to admit.
It just ain't beatin' and bangin' in some farmer's cornfield (NASCAR never was that, but some would want to believe it...) for a jug of homemade whiskey anymore. It is a muli-billion dollar business which must constantly expand into new and different areas if growth is to continue
I hate to tell you this, but if you're trying to enlighten either EMP or de7 to the reasons their southern tracks are loosing dates, you're simply wasting your time.
When I tried, I was told that my opinion was B.S.; it was strongly insinuated that because of my geographical location, I could not have any meainingful opinion and when I let them know that I'd spent more than a few years involved in the business, I was accused of thumping my chest and bragging.
But, these two boys are, by their own admission, "southern rednecks" and proud of it; when I quoted that term, I was accused of showing ignorance and arrogance,
and even though several others have attempted to point out the same facts to both of these gentlemen, they still seem unable to grasp the reality which surrounds NASCAR and its current growth.
I've previously tried, many times, to explain that NASCAR was, in fact, national in scope until RJR/Winston came on board in 1972. At that time the schedule was cut back drastically and, with only a couple of exceptions, became a regional organization, which it pretty much remained for the next twenty years. Only after sponsors started to demand expansion did the organization begin to look for new venues and growth in other areas of the country.
EMP and de7, National Associtation of Stock Car Automobile Racing; look at that first word in the name.
Then take a few minutes, look at the tracks this organization raced at during its early years. While there were many in the southeast, there were also quite a few as far north as Maine, as far west as California, Oregon and a whole bunch of others all across the country.
One of the original, stated goals of Bill France Sr. was to have a NATIONAL organization which could, and would, be larger than the Champ Car Circuit (AAA a and IMCA) of that time. I'd have to say he and his heirs have succeeded quite well. With the current marketing of their organization, I would expect to see continued growth for the foreseeable future as well; but I realize that is not what some here would want to admit.
It just ain't beatin' and bangin' in some farmer's cornfield (NASCAR never was that, but some would want to believe it...) for a jug of homemade whiskey anymore. It is a muli-billion dollar business which must constantly expand into new and different areas if growth is to continue
B
boB
Guest
Sorry bout that double post! Fingers must not be working right this morning!
B
bowtie
Guest
All taken care of boB.
de7xwcc
Anarchist
what ever boB, you have you opinion i have mine, you and i have had several "discussions" in the past and i am sure we will have more in the future, here is a little something i found thought you might have comment on,
69% hummmm
For the first time in a long time, we spent Labor Day weekend watching a NASCAR race somewhere other than Darlington. What are your thoughts?
NASCAR made the right decision moving the race.
1211 votes (11%)
Bring the race where it belongs - back to Darlington.
7551 votes (69%)
I'm not sure which track should have the event.
390 votes (4%)
Racin's racin. It can be anywhere for all I care.
1759 votes (16%)
10911 people voted in this poll
69% hummmm
For the first time in a long time, we spent Labor Day weekend watching a NASCAR race somewhere other than Darlington. What are your thoughts?
NASCAR made the right decision moving the race.
1211 votes (11%)
Bring the race where it belongs - back to Darlington.
7551 votes (69%)
I'm not sure which track should have the event.
390 votes (4%)
Racin's racin. It can be anywhere for all I care.
1759 votes (16%)
10911 people voted in this poll
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EatMorePossum
Guest
I never said otherwise. Try reading before you blow off.
Take your persecution act and cram it. It just ain't there. I made the point that you are not the only person who has been around awhile, and disagreed with your position. Whining about something that never happened is not only pitiful, but borders on delusional. I would suggest contacting your medical professional of choice.
Never one time in all this discussion have I said the things you claim I have.
Seriously. See a doctor. This can't be healthy.
Continued best wishes.
P
Patrick9999
Guest
'bout time this board got some excitement...it was getting pretty stale there for a while without Stewart doing something to agrue about.
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boB
Guest
Let me see if I've got this right here:
Because I simply took exception to a couple of remarks made about my opinion, referred in general terms to what had been said in other posts, now I'm delusional and need to see a doctor?
To begin with, I simply stated that I was sick of hearing all the whining and crying because NASCAR had made changes in their schedule. Now I'm the one doing all the whining and crying?
I've also, in the past, made the statement that I too, hated to see tradition not respected, but that I could understand the reasoning behind the changes.
I at no time referred to the California race as being "the second coming", and yes, I do think the racing here at New Hampshire is a lot better than what it would appear to be on television. (I've been around enough to know that most races are much more exciting at the track than on the television.)
Just for the record, that "boring racing" here at NHIS seems to sell out (over 100,000 people) every time the big show comes to town. Even on the Friday after Thanksgiving. You want to talk about weather? Check out the weather here in New England that late in the year.
Several other southern short tracks were mentioned in another post: well, how about the races which were removed from tracks like Langhorne, Flemington, Islip, Oxford, Fonda, and these are just those tracks here in the northeast. What about those tracks throughout the rest of the country which lost their events when NASCAR cut back its schedule in 1971-72?
Strange, but I don't recall anywhere near all the uproar about all the "tradition" at the time. Folks seemed to accept the fact that changes were being made and let it go at that.
Well, I'm sure I've given a couple of our residents some more fodder for them to chew on so....
and life goes on, despite the whims and fancy of those in power at "The Beach".
Imagine that!
Later.
Because I simply took exception to a couple of remarks made about my opinion, referred in general terms to what had been said in other posts, now I'm delusional and need to see a doctor?
To begin with, I simply stated that I was sick of hearing all the whining and crying because NASCAR had made changes in their schedule. Now I'm the one doing all the whining and crying?
I've also, in the past, made the statement that I too, hated to see tradition not respected, but that I could understand the reasoning behind the changes.
I at no time referred to the California race as being "the second coming", and yes, I do think the racing here at New Hampshire is a lot better than what it would appear to be on television. (I've been around enough to know that most races are much more exciting at the track than on the television.)
Just for the record, that "boring racing" here at NHIS seems to sell out (over 100,000 people) every time the big show comes to town. Even on the Friday after Thanksgiving. You want to talk about weather? Check out the weather here in New England that late in the year.
Several other southern short tracks were mentioned in another post: well, how about the races which were removed from tracks like Langhorne, Flemington, Islip, Oxford, Fonda, and these are just those tracks here in the northeast. What about those tracks throughout the rest of the country which lost their events when NASCAR cut back its schedule in 1971-72?
Strange, but I don't recall anywhere near all the uproar about all the "tradition" at the time. Folks seemed to accept the fact that changes were being made and let it go at that.
Well, I'm sure I've given a couple of our residents some more fodder for them to chew on so....
and life goes on, despite the whims and fancy of those in power at "The Beach".
Imagine that!
Later.
de7xwcc
Anarchist
still waitin on your comments boB
7500 people agree with my opinion
7500 people agree with my opinion
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esorlxaw
Guest
and that makes you right
de7xwcc
Anarchist
is your name boB ?
but to answer your ? in this case i do think i'm right, trust me when proven wrong i will be the first to admit defeat in this case ......
by the way i am lovin this tread
but to answer your ? in this case i do think i'm right, trust me when proven wrong i will be the first to admit defeat in this case ......
by the way i am lovin this tread
S
slick-nick
Guest
I don't get it, what's the bickering about?
muggle not
Team Owner
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
- Messages
- 10,253
- Points
- 1,033
For what it is worth I went back to the early days in Nascar, somewhat early in any case, and looked at the 1960 schedule which had 44 races.
North Carolina - 17 races
South Carolina - 10 races
Virginia - 5 races (for those that don't know the South Boston track is in VA, not Mass. )
Florida - 3
Georgia - 2
California - 2
Alabama - 1
Tennessee - 1
Pennsylvania - 1
New york - 1
Arizona - 1
Approx 30 of the 44 races were within 100 miles of Charlotte.
My history shows that the moonshiners did have a little influence on Nascar. :lol:
North Carolina - 17 races
South Carolina - 10 races
Virginia - 5 races (for those that don't know the South Boston track is in VA, not Mass.
)Florida - 3
Georgia - 2
California - 2
Alabama - 1
Tennessee - 1
Pennsylvania - 1
New york - 1
Arizona - 1
Approx 30 of the 44 races were within 100 miles of Charlotte.
My history shows that the moonshiners did have a little influence on Nascar. :lol:
B
boB
Guest
Well, de7,
First thing I have to ask is where was that poll conducted? On a website where most of the folks love racing, but hate NASCAR?
Second thing is that somewhere around 100,000 people showed up at California last weekend and Darlington has not been able to find 60,000 to put in their seats for either of their races for the last several years.
It appears that those who are so in favor of keeping the Labor Day race at Darlington didn't care enough to make their feelings felt through ticket sales for too many years, wouldn't it?
Now let's see, we add those 7,500 people to the 60,000 and my limited math skills still show us more that a few (quite a few in fact) thousand short of the California crowd.
And don't come back to me with your crap about ISC's profits; they make profits because they're smart enough to make the changes their business needs in order to continue to show profit. Not by continually bringing their show to venues whose fans care so much they fail to buy the tickets and support the show.
I'm sure you realize that fact, just don't want to admit it to yourself or anyone else?
I believe I've seen mention that this year's spring race was the first sell-out at Darlington since the mid 1990's.
But I forget, it's all a matter of the weather!
That excuse may have a little validity as far as Rockingham, but how does it apply to Darlington?
And foolish me, all this time I've been under the mistaken impression that it was all about seeing black ink on the bottem line.
Actually, I'm looking forward to see what happens with next year's Mother's Day event under the lights on Saturday night.
Did you ever consider that this may be the event that is the saving grace of a rather tired and worn out Old Lady?
Nope, I doubt you have.
It's easier to complain about the loss of "Tradition".
First thing I have to ask is where was that poll conducted? On a website where most of the folks love racing, but hate NASCAR?
Second thing is that somewhere around 100,000 people showed up at California last weekend and Darlington has not been able to find 60,000 to put in their seats for either of their races for the last several years.
It appears that those who are so in favor of keeping the Labor Day race at Darlington didn't care enough to make their feelings felt through ticket sales for too many years, wouldn't it?
Now let's see, we add those 7,500 people to the 60,000 and my limited math skills still show us more that a few (quite a few in fact) thousand short of the California crowd.
And don't come back to me with your crap about ISC's profits; they make profits because they're smart enough to make the changes their business needs in order to continue to show profit. Not by continually bringing their show to venues whose fans care so much they fail to buy the tickets and support the show.
I'm sure you realize that fact, just don't want to admit it to yourself or anyone else?
I believe I've seen mention that this year's spring race was the first sell-out at Darlington since the mid 1990's.
But I forget, it's all a matter of the weather!
That excuse may have a little validity as far as Rockingham, but how does it apply to Darlington?
And foolish me, all this time I've been under the mistaken impression that it was all about seeing black ink on the bottem line.
Actually, I'm looking forward to see what happens with next year's Mother's Day event under the lights on Saturday night.
Did you ever consider that this may be the event that is the saving grace of a rather tired and worn out Old Lady?
Nope, I doubt you have.
It's easier to complain about the loss of "Tradition".
muggle not
Team Owner
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
- Messages
- 10,253
- Points
- 1,033
Question for everyone. Which has the biggest influence on where races are held. The TV market or the number of people attending the races.
de7xwcc
Anarchist
the poll was conducted in the heart of redneck country Charlotte, your right it IS all about the $$$ i won't disagree, but whare did you get where i said anything about weather at Darlington ? if i did (you know i have slept since we started the pizzing contest) i stand corrected. i would like to hope that mothers day Sat. will save my beloved Darlington but i don't think it will that tired old track as you call it will be lost to the "new nascar"
boB you will never change my mind, but ain't this fun
boB you will never change my mind, but ain't this fun
N
Nitro
Guest
One thing I think they (Nascar) concidered was; they took manyof the tracks that have 2 or more races; then they looked at them and decided to move the one that made the least money. They did this so they wouldn't have to extend the season.
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DE_Wrangler_2
Guest
I'm going to say butts in the seats. The fannies in the grand stands is what generates the TV market........you got to remember, the TV market is nationwide, not local. It's the tracks that sell out that attract the TV promotion, which makes that market grow too. The tracks that can consistently sell out generate more money for the track owners. And the smart track owners invest some of that money back into the track to make it more attractive for even more people to attend in the future. The TV people notice that and promote and hype the races for their gain in the money department, The two sort of work hand in hand, but race attendance is the primary reason one track is more profitable (and therefore more hyped by TV) than another track.
That's where Darlington fell down over the years. They hyped the track as the "Lady in Black" because back in the old days when the cars where racing on bias belted tires the fastest way off the turns was to "lean" on the guard rail......the name "Lady in Black" or the term "earn your Darlington stripe" came from that habit some drivers had. Well, the guard rails were replaced with concrete (and now have SAFER barriers bolted in front of them). The bias tires went away with the advent of radials.......just not possible to "drift" a car up against the outside wall without wrecking now days. But Darlington, for whatever reason, decided that since she was the "Lady in Black" and had such a tradition, that she just didn't have to do anything to keep up with the times. I think the owners may have waken up now.........but it might be too late. The track owners are the reason Darlington lost their second date to California. Not NASCAR. Darlington has become one of the least exciting races of the season.........NASCAR didn't do that. The owners did due to negligence........negligent in keeping up the sport that the owners thought would always love "The Lady in Black". It's a shame, but that's the way it is.........this is the real world of big time motorsports and you snooze, you lose. There are couple here who need to get the chip off their shoulders and find a way to enjoy the sport they claim to love so much......either that or find something else to satisfy their interests.
I've been hearing this grip from pretty much the same people for over a year and a half (since it was announced that the Memorial Day race would be moved to California). That's a long time to keep your head in the sand.