Random Racing Stats

[kkfan91]

So I put together random and frankly unnecessary racing stats mostly to fill my own need to know useless facts. If any of you remember my old Crash Stats that I have gotten years behind on at this point think along those lines (and I will get back to those but the masters degree comes first). Anyway I don't know the first thing about website design or programming so until I do I'm just going to post them here in this thread.

Starting off with a project I have been working on since last week after Josh Berry won, and as I mentioned in a comment to @Blaze when he shared a video that was related to this is figuring out the average of the number of starts before a driver wins their first Cup race.

206 drivers have won Cup Series races between 1949 and Josh Berry at Las Vegas.
The average number of starts in those 75+ years is 57.36 starts.
The fastest is 1 start 7 times (Harold Kite, Jack White, Jim Roper, Leon Sales, Marvin Burke, Johnny Rutherford, and SVG) all by Rutherford and SVG are from the 1949-1959 seasons and Rutherford was in the 1960s. SVG is a massive outlier there.
The slowest as many know is 463 by Michael Waltrip, though 7 drivers took more than 200 starts (AJ Allmendinger, Buddy Baker, Johnny Benson, Dave Marcis, Sterling Marlin, Michael McDowell, and Waltrip.)

Now, recognizing stats across NASCAR eras is hard due to different circumstances and how they raced. As such to give a better look at it I've broken it down by decades as I feel like that is more fair. How I sorted a driver into a category was by the year of his first start, so even if a driver may be more identified with a later decade they are listed by this for example Tony Stewart's first year was in the 90's, or Cale Yarbourgh in the 50s.

1949 and 1950s

87 different drivers won from this era
27.1 was the average number of starts for first wins
1 race was the fastest by 6 drivers all mentioned above
216 was the most starts by Buddy Baker
Wildly this average could be lower because 63 of the 87 drivers took fewer than the average, but the 5 drivers with more than 100 drive it up.

1960s

24 different drivers won from this era
50.95 was the average number of starts for first wins
1 race was the fastest by Johnny Rutherford
227 was the most by Dave Marcis

1970s

15 different drivers won from this era
87.93 was the average number of starts
5 races was the fastest by Mark Donohue
279 was the most by Sterling Marlin

1980s

17 Different drivers won from this era
105.64 was the average number of starts
11 races was the fastest by Ron Bouchard
463 was the most by Michael Waltrip
Waltrip is not the only driver that lowers this average Ken Schrader, Phil Parsons, Mark Martin, Dale Jarrett, Jimmy Spencer, Bobby Hamilton all took between 108 and 167 races to win.

1990s

16 Different drivers won from this era
90.75 was the average number of starts
12 races was the fastest by Dale Earnhardt Jr
226 was the most by Johnny Benson

2000s

25 different drivers won from this era
79.24 was the average number of starts
2 races was the fastest by Jamie McMurray
358 was the most by Michael McDowell
This is the earliest era with a driver still active that could change the average, though I don't see JJ Yeley breaking through as likely but crazier things have happened.

2010s
16 different winners to this point from this era
90.56 is the average number of starts
2 races was the fastest by Trevor Bayne
195 was the most so far by Daniel Suarez
This era is helped average-wise by Bayne, Haley, Custer, and Buescher taking 27 or fewer starts, no one else has taken less than 57 (Erik Jones).

2020s
6 different drivers to this point from this era
39.66 is the average number of starts
1 is the fastest by SVG
98 was the most so far by Harrison Burton
Obviously this is still an in progress era, and more drivers will likely be added to it as we go...it be bizarre if they didn't.

Below is the link to my spreadsheet if you want to dive deeper into the numbers or see where you favorite driver ranks on it.

 

[Greg]

So I put together random and frankly unnecessary racing stats mostly to fill my own need to know useless facts. If any of you remember my old Crash Stats that I have gotten years behind on at this point think along those lines (and I will get back to those but the masters degree comes first). Anyway I don't know the first thing about website design or programming so until I do I'm just going to post them here in this thread.

Starting off with a project I have been working on since last week after Josh Berry won, and as I mentioned in a comment to @Blaze when he shared a video that was related to this is figuring out the average of the number of starts before a driver wins their first Cup race.

206 drivers have won Cup Series races between 1949 and Josh Berry at Las Vegas.
The average number of starts in those 75+ years is 57.36 starts.
The fastest is 1 start 7 times (Harold Kite, Jack White, Jim Roper, Leon Sales, Marvin Burke, Johnny Rutherford, and SVG) all by Rutherford and SVG are from the 1949-1959 seasons and Rutherford was in the 1960s. SVG is a massive outlier there.
The slowest as many know is 463 by Michael Waltrip, though 7 drivers took more than 200 starts (AJ Allmendinger, Buddy Baker, Johnny Benson, Dave Marcis, Sterling Marlin, Michael McDowell, and Waltrip.)

Now, recognizing stats across NASCAR eras is hard due to different circumstances and how they raced. As such to give a better look at it I've broken it down by decades as I feel like that is more fair. How I sorted a driver into a category was by the year of his first start, so even if a driver may be more identified with a later decade they are listed by this for example Tony Stewart's first year was in the 90's, or Cale Yarbourgh in the 50s.

1949 and 1950s

87 different drivers won from this era
27.1 was the average number of starts for first wins
1 race was the fastest by 6 drivers all mentioned above
216 was the most starts by Buddy Baker
Wildly this average could be lower because 63 of the 87 drivers took fewer than the average, but the 5 drivers with more than 100 drive it up.

1960s

24 different drivers won from this era
50.95 was the average number of starts for first wins
1 race was the fastest by Johnny Rutherford
227 was the most by Dave Marcis

1970s

15 different drivers won from this era
87.93 was the average number of starts
5 races was the fastest by Mark Donohue
279 was the most by Sterling Marlin

1980s

17 Different drivers won from this era
105.64 was the average number of starts
11 races was the fastest by Ron Bouchard
463 was the most by Michael Waltrip
Waltrip is not the only driver that lowers this average Ken Schrader, Phil Parsons, Mark Martin, Dale Jarrett, Jimmy Spencer, Bobby Hamilton all took between 108 and 167 races to win.

1990s

16 Different drivers won from this era
90.75 was the average number of starts
12 races was the fastest by Dale Earnhardt Jr
226 was the most by Johnny Benson

2000s

25 different drivers won from this era
79.24 was the average number of starts
2 races was the fastest by Jamie McMurray
358 was the most by Michael McDowell
This is the earliest era with a driver still active that could change the average, though I don't see JJ Yeley breaking through as likely but crazier things have happened.

2010s
16 different winners to this point from this era
90.56 is the average number of starts
2 races was the fastest by Trevor Bayne
195 was the most so far by Daniel Suarez
This era is helped average-wise by Bayne, Haley, Custer, and Buescher taking 27 or fewer starts, no one else has taken less than 57 (Erik Jones).

2020s
6 different drivers to this point from this era
39.66 is the average number of starts
1 is the fastest by SVG
98 was the most so far by Harrison Burton
Obviously this is still an in progress era, and more drivers will likely be added to it as we go...it be bizarre if they didn't.

Below is the link to my spreadsheet if you want to dive deeper into the numbers or see where you favorite driver ranks on it.

Very interesting. Aside from needing support or some money to compete, racing has so many variables and so many unique stories behind all of those first-time wins.

I would think the effort involved in sorting through historical NASCAR stats is a lot tougher than doing something like the NFL or MLB. They all had a schedule for every season, but I would think the factors in racing are more random in nature. A lot more one-off or short-term type of deals, etc.

Thanks taking the time to do this and posting the results.

 

[Blaze]

What I find very interesting is how many different people won from 49/50s era. 87 is a crazy number. 60s is nice also.


Then 70s,80s, and 90s didn't produce alot of winning drivers, but probably alot of the all time greats came in during that time, and took up a lot of wins. So despite not having a lot of different winners from those eras, you had alot of great talent still.


2000s, second biggest different winners from that era, a few of them were some lucky one timers, but man the talent the 2000s bought us is amazing.

 

[kkfan91]

Yeah the first decade you have to think there were sometimes multiple races on one day. A lot of these guys only ran a handful of starts on the west coast or things like that. That's why I thought separating eras was important it gives you a clearer picture of what was going on. Also gives me an idea for average number of starts by Cup Series winners.

 

[kkfan91]

Alright I told @DIDIT this would take a month or more, but here it is. This is like what I did for Cup the average number of starts except this time it is for the World of Outlaws.

Some notes, the first 5 years or so of Outlaws history the full field run downs are not always available. So for guys who started in the late 70s and early 80s their numbers are as close as I can get. For starts I only count A main appearances even if they were there that doesn't count. I broke it down again by decade to help lay it out.

First overall

There have been 152 different winners in the World of Outlaws sprint cars.
Overall drivers take an average of 65.95 starts to earn a first win.
The fastest was the first start done by 4 drivers all who made their first starts in the 70s (Bentley Warren, Bobby Allen, Jimmy Boyd, Lealand McSpadden)
The slowest to date is recently retired Jacob Allen at 359 starts.
31 drivers took less than 10 starts to win
91 took less than 50 starts
118 took less than 100
5 took more than 300

How it breaks down for the champions of the series
Steve Kinser 4 starts
Sammy Swindell 8
Bobby Davis Jr 57
Dave Blaney 25
Mark Kinser 29
Danny Lasoski 54
Donny Schatz 180
Jason Meyers 94
Daryn Pittman 194
Brad Sweet 93
David Gravel 20

1970s
39 drivers who made their first start in the 70s won
19.05 was the average number of starts
1 was the fewest starts by 4 drivers Bobby Allen, Bentley Warren, Jimmy Boyd, and Lealand McSpadden
103 was the most by Jeff Swindell, the only driver over 100 starts before their first
Of all drivers to take less than 5 starts for their first win only 1 didn't make a start in the 70s and we will get to them later.

1980s
35 winners
90.37 average starts
6 was the low by Bill Stief
331 was the most by Terry McCarl

1990s
27 winners
112.44 average starts
8 was the low by Bill Brian Jr
259 was the most by Randy Hannagan

2000s
25 winners
74.56 average starts
12 was the low by Travis Jacobson and Kyle Larson
312 was the most by Lucas Wolfe

2010s
25 winners
48 average starts
4 was the low by Stewart Friesen, as I mentioned early only driver to take less than 5 starts since the 70s. To date only has 6 starts.
359 was the most by Jacob Allen

2020s

So far Corey Day is the only driver to make his first start in the 2020s and win. It took 19 starts

What is interesting is you can see the differences in sprint car drivers. With the large local component you can see regional guys like the PA Posse or California have wins after a few starts, due to them running those tracks all the time. The biggest names are a mixed bag, some took a few starts like Carson Macedo, but others have put in years and years before winning. Running full time will drive the numbers up but also provide more chances to win. More pick and choose guys can build up the numbers but not win often.

This started as a note about Kasey Kahne not having won a World of Outlaws race. Kasey to date has 224 Outlaws starts so if he won the next time he races won he would be ranked 143rd out of 152. Greg Hodnett, Dale Blaney, Sam Hafertpepe Jr, Brian Paulus, Randy Hannagan, Paul McMahan, Lucas Wolfe, Johnny Herrera, Terry McCarl, and Jacob Allen took between 236 and 359 starts to win.

Link to full numbers

 

[DIDIT]

Alright I told @DIDIT this would take a month or more, but here it is. This is like what I did for Cup the average number of starts except this time it is for the World of Outlaws.

Some notes, the first 5 years or so of Outlaws history the full field run downs are not always available. So for guys who started in the late 70s and early 80s their numbers are as close as I can get. For starts I only count A main appearances even if they were there that doesn't count. I broke it down again by decade to help lay it out.

First overall

There have been 152 different winners in the World of Outlaws sprint cars.
Overall drivers take an average of 65.95 starts to earn a first win.
The fastest was the first start done by 4 drivers all who made their first starts in the 70s (Bentley Warren, Bobby Allen, Jimmy Boyd, Lealand McSpadden)
The slowest to date is recently retired Jacob Allen at 359 starts.
31 drivers took less than 10 starts to win
91 took less than 50 starts
118 took less than 100
5 took more than 300

How it breaks down for the champions of the series
Steve Kinser 4 starts
Sammy Swindell 8
Bobby Davis Jr 57
Dave Blaney 25
Mark Kinser 29
Danny Lasoski 54
Donny Schatz 180
Jason Meyers 94
Daryn Pittman 194
Brad Sweet 93
David Gravel 20

1970s
39 drivers who made their first start in the 70s won
19.05 was the average number of starts
1 was the fewest starts by 4 drivers Bobby Allen, Bentley Warren, Jimmy Boyd, and Lealand McSpadden
103 was the most by Jeff Swindell, the only driver over 100 starts before their first
Of all drivers to take less than 5 starts for their first win only 1 didn't make a start in the 70s and we will get to them later.

1980s
35 winners
90.37 average starts
6 was the low by Bill Stief
331 was the most by Terry McCarl

1990s
27 winners
112.44 average starts
8 was the low by Bill Brian Jr
259 was the most by Randy Hannagan

2000s
25 winners
74.56 average starts
12 was the low by Travis Jacobson and Kyle Larson
312 was the most by Lucas Wolfe

2010s
25 winners
48 average starts
4 was the low by Stewart Friesen, as I mentioned early only driver to take less than 5 starts since the 70s. To date only has 6 starts.
359 was the most by Jacob Allen

2020s

So far Corey Day is the only driver to make his first start in the 2020s and win. It took 19 starts

What is interesting is you can see the differences in sprint car drivers. With the large local component you can see regional guys like the PA Posse or California have wins after a few starts, due to them running those tracks all the time. The biggest names are a mixed bag, some took a few starts like Carson Macedo, but others have put in years and years before winning. Running full time will drive the numbers up but also provide more chances to win. More pick and choose guys can build up the numbers but not win often.

This started as a note about Kasey Kahne not having won a World of Outlaws race. Kasey to date has 224 Outlaws starts so if he won the next time he races won he would be ranked 143rd out of 152. Greg Hodnett, Dale Blaney, Sam Hafertpepe Jr, Brian Paulus, Randy Hannagan, Paul McMahan, Lucas Wolfe, Johnny Herrera, Terry McCarl, and Jacob Allen took between 236 and 359 starts to win.

Link to full numbers

Thanks for pulling these number together. Spent a lot of time perusing them.

Pretty interesting. Enjoyed seeing a number of my favorite sprint car drivers from back in the day. Being in the Midwest it was always awesome to see some of these guys pull into the track, be it WOO or not. Beaber & Ferkle with 3 races to win. Ford, Hewitt, Haud, Blaney and Doty were always around the local tracks too.

I posted this before about Friesen. I just happened to be at Osweken in 2013 the night he won his WOO race. But, I didn't know he was driving the #1 Zemken that night. Before when I saw that car Jessica Zemken was the driver. As I watched the race I was amazed that she was actually going to pull off the win. I was in for a surprise when the victory lane celebration began. Apparently Jessica was pregnant and had relinquished her ride to Stewart.

 

[kkfan91]

Thanks for pulling these number together. Spent a lot of time perusing them.

Pretty interesting. Enjoyed seeing a number of my favorite sprint car drivers from back in the day. Being in the Midwest it was always awesome to see some of these guys pull into the track, be it WOO or not. Beaber & Ferkle with 3 races to win. Ford, Hewitt, Haud, Blaney and Doty were always around the local tracks too.

I posted this before about Friesen. I just happened to be at Osweken in 2013 the night he won his WOO race. But, I didn't know he was driving the #1 Zemken that night. Before when I saw that car Jessica Zemken was the driver. As I watched the race I was amazed that she was actually going to pull off the win. I was in for a surprise when the victory lane celebration began. Apparently Jessica was pregnant and had relinquished her ride to Stewart.

What i found crazy is that over 5000 drivers have started an Outlaw race and only 152 have won. Really goes to show what Johnny Gibson says "you wanted the best? You got them four abreast"

 

[kkfan91]

Finished Xfinity Series average starts before first win. Will post them when I'm home tonight.

 

[kkfan91]

Xfinity Series Average Starts Before First Win

Of the three series so far the lowest average starts. Which makes sense as a development series, drivers tend not to hang around, at least not in the last 25 years or so.

Overall

179 number of winners
41.1 average number of starts
1 was the fewest from 7 drivers (Dale Earnhardt, Joe Ruttman, Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte, Kurt Busch, Ty Gibbs, Connor Zilisch)
256 was the most by Jeremy Clements
Of the 179:
46 took 9 starts or less
69 took less than 20
121 took less than 50
167 took 100 starts or less
9 drivers took more than 100 starts but less than 200 (Regan Smith 103, Brandon Brown 114, Joe Bessey 117, Rick Mast 132, Ross Chastain 132, Brandon Jones 134, Riley Herbst 139, Dale Jarrett 141, Elton Sawyer 180)
3 drivers took over 200 (Ed Berrier 208, Michael Annett 230, Jeremy Clements 256)

Weird fact despite being the slowest driver to a first Cup win at 463 Michael Waltrip only took 4 starts to get his first Xfinity win

1980s

67 Winners
36.19 Average Starts
1 Low (Earnhardt, Ruttman, Rudd, Labonte)
208 High Ed Berrier

1990s

34 Winners
41.41 Average Starts
2 Low Ron Fellows
100 High Jeff Green

2000s

39 Winners
50.87 Average Starts
1 Low Kurt Busch
256 High Jeremy Clements
Note I counted Aric Almirola's first win even though Hamlin was driving because that is how the record book works. It would change him from 20 starts to 93 otherwise.

2010s

31 Winners
44.74 Average Starts
3 Low Nelson Piquet Jr
139 High Riley Herbst

2020s

8 Winners
19.25 Average Starts
1 Low (Gibbs, Zilisch)
71 High Sam Mayer

 

[kkfan91]

Forgot the link

 

[DIDIT]

Forgot the link

Am I just overlooking it? I don't see Dave Blaney's win in 2006 in Xfinity. Wanted to compare that to Ryan.

WOW, almost halfway through the 2020s and only 8 new winners so far.

 

[kkfan91]

Am I just overlooking it? I don't see Dave Blaney's win in 2006 in Xfinity. Wanted to compare that to Ryan.

WOW, almost halfway through the 2020s and only 8 new winners so far.

Dave is there 93 starts, made his first start in '98

 

[DIDIT]

Dave is there 93 starts, made his first start in '98

Ok, I wasn’t looking for him in the 90s
Thanks

 

[kkfan91]

Ok, I wasn’t looking for him in the 90s
Thanks

Yeah i organize it by when they made their first start in a series. It gives some oddities sometime because no one thinks about Robby Gordon making his first Cup start in 1991.

 

[hmmm298]

Am I just overlooking it? I don't see Dave Blaney's win in 2006 in Xfinity. Wanted to compare that to Ryan.

WOW, almost halfway through the 2020s and only 8 new winners so far.

Great in hind sight for my 5 new winners in one season prediction.