RATE THE FIGHT: Charlotte II

Rate the fight? Didn't really see much of a fight. I think Bruton Smith once said that they should put a boxing ring in the infield for the competitors after the race. I'm starting to think that he's correct.
 
FenderBumper said:
Gluck was there and posted some details.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...after-charlotte-bank-of-america-500/17138145/

--Keselowski drove past everyone into the garage and Hamlin followed. Their cars made contact in the garage and were stuck together; Keselowski gassed his car up to get away -- leaving a burnout mark in the garage -- and drove across some equipment laying on the ground to reach his team's hauler.

IMO, 2 big idiots and 1 lesser idiot in all this.
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Thanks for posting that. I trust Jeff Gluck's word.

Who's the lesser idiot, in your opinion? Kenseth or Stewart? The way I see it, my man Brad provoked the entire thing and he alone is to blame for it. His brain just kinda shut off towards the end of and after that race, and as a result, everyone wanted to kill him.

Like some of y'all said, when you have Matt Kenseth of all people getting you in a headlock after the race, you know you've done something wrong.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Thanks for posting that. I trust Jeff Gluck's word.

Who's the lesser idiot, in your opinion? Kenseth or Stewart? The way I see it, my man Brad provoked the entire thing and he alone is to blame for it. His brain just kinda shut off towards the end of and after that race, and as a result, everyone wanted to kill him.

Like some of y'all said, when you have Matt Kenseth of all people getting you in a headlock after the race, you know you've done something wrong.
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Matt intentionally made contact with the #2 under yellow. Denny created contact with the #2 after checkers flew. That's what started the whole thing. All of that was on track, so it's different than what happened at pit entrance.

Brad hitting Matt as he was entering pit road was insane because the cars are heading toward an area where there may be pedestrians. Tony RAMMING Brad while on pit road was just as bad, but at least his car was moving AWAY from the pit area. Tony's was a huge over reaction to slight contact, and could have made things even worse.

IF, and only IF, Hamlin did follow the #2 and ram him in the garage area, he's the biggest idiot of them all. Hamlin said he created contact with Kez and got hit for his effort. Taking it further and into the garage area was plain stupid.

IF Kez retaliated in the garage area, or drove dangerously to get away, he's as big a fool as Hamlin.

I know plenty of people who are fans of this driver or that driver will say "My guy had good reason to play games on pit road..or the garage". I say there ISN'T...EVER...a good reason to put lives in potential danger like that.

On the idiot scale:
Hamlin = Kez, with Tony rating slightly under those 2.

Also, I don't necessarily trust Gluck's take on what happened in the garage, but it's all we have right now.
 
FenderBumper said:
Matt intentionally made contact with the #2 under yellow. Denny created contact with the #2 after checkers flew. That's what started the whole thing. All of that was on track, so it's different than what happened at pit entrance.

Brad hitting Matt as he was entering pit road was insane because the cars are heading toward an area where there may be pedestrians. Tony RAMMING Brad while on pit road was just as bad, but at least his car was moving AWAY from the pit area. Tony's was a huge over reaction to slight contact, and could have made things even worse.

IF, and only IF, Hamlin did follow the #2 and ram him in the garage area, he's the biggest idiot of them all. Hamlin said he created contact with Kez and got hit for his effort. Taking it further and into the garage area was plain stupid.

IF Kez retaliated in the garage area, or drove dangerously to get away, he's as big a fool as Hamlin.

I know plenty of people who are fans of this driver or that driver will say "My guy had good reason to play games on pit road..or the garage". I say there ISN'T...EVER...a good reason to put lives in potential danger like that.

On the idiot scale:
Hamlin = Kez, with Tony rating slightly under those 2.
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I respect your opinion and agree that Brad has been on Denny's level as far as idiocy for a while now. I and others have said that before. The only difference between the two is that Denny's much more arrogant than Brad is IMO. I also agree that they shouldn't have been playing games on pit road and in the garage area with their cars around all those other people (but again, that was mostly Brad).

That being said, I still say Brad started it all because he ran Kenseth into the wall on that one restart. Even if it was just Brad's spotter's fault, if what beantown said was true, the spotter was just like "oh, there was no room up there anyway." Like I said in the race thread, there was plenty of room up there until Brad came all the way up to the wall while another car was there. Then he was just all over Denny's *** in turn one on that final restart and bumped him, which almost made him squeeze Kasey Kahne down onto the apron and could have caused a big mess, and then he was ramming him all the way down the backstretch.

Brad started it.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I respect your opinion and agree that Brad has been on Denny's level as far as idiocy for a while now. The only difference between the two is that Denny's much more arrogant than Brad is IMO.

That being said, I still say Brad started it all because he ran Kenseth into the wall on that one restart. Even if it was just Brad's spotter's fault, if what beantown said was true, the spotter was just like "oh, there was no room up there anyway." Like I said in the race thread, there was plenty of room up there until Brad came all the way up to the wall while another car was there. Then he was just all over Denny's *** in turn one on that final restart and bumped him, which almost made him squeeze Kasey Kahne down onto the apron and could have caused a big mess, and then he was ramming him all the way down the backstretch.

Brad started it.
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I'm separating green flag stuff from the yellow flag and post race race stuff because there is a clear line between them.

It wasn't too long ago that Matt ran Brad into the wall in much the same way. Matt is a HUGE blocker, so he had that move coming, IMO. He had time to back off and didn't. It's not like he had position going into the corner.
 
FenderBumper said:
I'm separating green flag stuff from the yellow flag and post race race stuff because there is a clear line between them.
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Understood. I was just making the obvious point that what happened under green started it all.

FenderBumper said:
It wasn't too long ago that Matt ran Brad into the wall in much the same way. Matt is a HUGE blocker, so he had that move coming, IMO. He had time to back off and didn't. It's not like he had position going into the corner.
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Yep, Matt blocks just like Brad and everyone else. I don't have a big problem with it. But it's one thing to jump in front of somebody and take their line away - it's quite another to just flat out run them into the wall. It looked so bad as far as Brad was concerned IMO that for a second I thought that it was his spotter's fault. Either way, Kenseth was there and he had plenty of room on the high side until Brad came way up the track and got into him.

Just out of curiosity, when did Kenseth run Brad into the wall? Richmond? I did a quick YouTube search and couldn't find anything. Kenseth blocked him at Richmond but from what I saw, he never actually ran Brad into the wall, though it was pretty close.
 
Pit crew got Brad the pole because he didn't pit. Kenseth knew that. Look at the replay, Kenseth was close to a car length back and he got a run. Brad walled him. Blame Brad, blame his pit call, blame Kenseth for not lining up right. Kenseth got screwed and had to use up his car from the back, all good stuff that makes racing great IMO.
 
Looked on camera like Smoke put an end to the bumper car crap. We didn't see him interviewed. wonder why?
Betsy
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Understood. I was just making the obvious point that what happened under green started it all.


Yep, Matt blocks just like Brad and everyone else. I don't have a big problem with it. But it's one thing to jump in front of somebody and take their line away - it's quite another to just flat out run them into the wall. It looked so bad as far as Brad was concerned IMO that for a second I thought that it was his spotter's fault. Either way, Kenseth was there and he had plenty of room on the high side until Brad came way up the track and got into him.

Just out of curiosity, when did Kenseth run Brad into the wall? Richmond? I did a quick YouTube search and couldn't find anything. Kenseth blocked him at Richmond but from what I saw, he never actually ran Brad into the wall, though it was pretty close.
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Took a second look at the block, and I have to say it wasn't so much Brad running Matt into the wall as it was Matt trying to turn Brad into the wall. Matt still has plenty of room to the wall when he turns left and tries to turn Brad into the wall. That's when they hook together and Matt hits the wall. IMO, not a dramatic block by Brad on a restart. Matt moving down and into Brad is what caused the wreck. That said, you block and sometimes you get wrecked, but Matt had no reason to drive into the #2 under yellow.
 
FenderBumper said:
Took a second look at the block, and I have to say it wasn't so much Brad running Matt into the wall as it was Matt trying to turn Brad into the wall. Matt still has plenty of room to the wall when he turns left and tries to turn Brad into the wall. That's when they hook together and Matt hits the wall. IMO, not a dramatic block by Brad on a restart. Matt moving down and into Brad is what caused the wreck. That said, you block and sometimes you get wrecked, but Matt had no reason to drive into the #2 under yellow.
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Do you have a link to a video of that restart? All I'm finding on YouTube is the last restart and the post-race headlock. LOL.

Edit: I found a video, albeit low quality (at least for me), and I didn't see Kenseth moving down into Brad like you describe - just Brad slowly moving up the track into Kenseth and squeezing him into the wall. This is a highlights video of the entire race, and the incident in question is towards the end.

http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/vid...otte-post-race-fracas-101114?vid=340788803745
 
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Mr. Gregory said:
Do you have a link to a video of that restart? All I'm finding on YouTube is the last restart and the post-race headlock. LOL.

Edit: I found a video, albeit low quality (at least for me), and I didn't see Kenseth moving down into Brad like you describe - just Brad slowly moving up the track into Kenseth and squeezing him into the wall. This is a highlights video of the entire race, and the incident in question is towards the end.

http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/vid...otte-post-race-fracas-101114?vid=340788803745
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Hard to see in that video, but at 2:17, Matt does turn slightly into Brad's rear quarter panel. The video I saw was sportscenter, and it shows the action from the front view and it's easier to see Matt change his line SLIGHTLY just before there was contact.

Go back to Bristol NW race in 2010. Brad is leading, and Kyle does exactly what Brad does. Squeezes the RACE LEADER to the wall, and Brad was universally blamed for not letting off.

I don't think Brad did much worse than Matt did earlier this year. 1:30

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?

Some key differences is Brad was well inside Matt, Brad never turns into Matt, and Matt had much more room left before he does turn into Brad's QP.
 
FenderBumper said:
Hard to see in that video, but at 2:17, Matt does turn slightly into Brad's rear quarter panel. The video I saw was sportscenter, and it shows the action from the front view and it's easier to see Matt change his line SLIGHTLY just before there was contact.

Go back to Bristol NW race in 2010. Brad is leading, and Kyle does exactly what Brad does. Squeezes the RACE LEADER to the wall, and Brad was universally blamed for not letting off.

I don't think Brad did much worse than Matt did earlier this year. 1:30

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?

Some key differences is Brad was well inside Matt, Brad never turns into Matt, and Matt had much more room left before he does turn into Brad's QP.
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I respectfully disagree with your version of events, sir.

I can't find any good quality videos. It's just the headlock everywhere I look. I give up.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I respectfully disagree with your version of events, sir.

I can't find any good quality videos. It's just the headlock everywhere I look. I give up.
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I think we can agree that Matt was less than a foot outside Kez's quarter panel. Hardly a position one can justify protecting thru contact.
 
FenderBumper said:
I think we can agree that Matt was less than a foot outside Kez's quarter panel. Hardly a position one can justify protecting thru contact.
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Matt was there and had a great run going on Brad, and he was gonna pass or at least get fully alongside Brad right there. From what I saw, Brad just moved up slowly until he ran Kenseth into the wall. The only one I saw trying to protect his spot through contact was Brad - which, again, I wouldn't have had a problem with if he hadn't run Kenseth into the wall.

Brad ****** up on that one IMO, and that was the catalyst that set the whole thing off. Just my opinion.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Matt was there and had a great run going on Brad, and he was gonna pass or at least get fully alongside Brad right there. From what I saw, Brad just moved up slowly until he ran Kenseth into the wall. The only one I saw trying to protect his spot through contact was Brad - which, again, I wouldn't have had a problem with if he hadn't run Kenseth into the wall.

Brad ****** up on that one IMO, and that was the catalyst that set the whole thing off. Just my opinion.
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No! Matt didn't have that big a run. He was crawling up alongside Brad when Kez moved up a lane to block. All Matt was going to accomplish was getting Kez loose and help Hamlin get the lead.
 
FenderBumper said:
No! Matt didn't have that big a run. He was crawling up alongside Brad when Kez moved up a lane to block. All Matt was going to accomplish was getting Kez loose and help Hamlin get the lead.
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Negative. Kenseth was about to pass that ***.

At least you've finally admitted that Brad moved up a lane into a lane that was already occupied by Kenseth. Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time, and unfortunately, thanks to Brad, Kenseth was on the wrong side of physics on that deal.
 
10/10 :), as usual DVR'd it and then watched with my coffee this am early, the only way to go.
Congrats to all the Harvick fans on this site, well earned and about time! :punkrocke

My man Matt, as it has been said, if Matt is putting someone in a head lock then you know who ever is in the head lock F'd up. Kez lost his mind at the end, not so much on the cool down lap ( I understand that) but when he continued into pit lane and then on into the garage area with his car. Hell Kez hit everyone but the pace car.

Kudos to the camera man with the TV shot from above between the haulers.
Again I say, watching Kyle Larson race with the top guys, is worth the price of admission! :punkrocke

ESPN being 30 laps late to the show sucked. Hope that does not happen at Dega.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Negative. Kenseth was about to pass that ***.

At least you've finally admitted that Brad moved up a lane into a lane that was already occupied by Kenseth. Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time, and unfortunately, thanks to Brad, Kenseth was on the wrong side of physics on that deal.
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Err, said Brad blocked from minute 1. Initially didn't see it as running Matt into the wall.

Lets disagree without you getting wanker with what I said.
 
FenderBumper said:
Err, said Brad blocked from minute 1. Initially didn't see it as running Matt into the wall.

Lets disagree without you getting wanker with what I said.
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My bad, StandOnIt. ;)

This should go without saying, but just in case, at this point I'm just messing with you.
 
denny looked & sounded like a preschooler gloating over fact kez is gettin blamed for most of it.
makes even me wanna slap his little smug / smirky azz around a little.

gonna be ironic if nascar fines he & kez both w/ points fine ......for garage crap w/ cars.
won't matter w/ kez...........gotta win dega or he's gone most likely anyway .
but denny ? at checkers last nite .......he was in solid shape for rd 3 advance.
may not be by tuesday..............may have ta win dega.......just like kez !! ha!
that'd be sweet irony !!
 
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