Richard Petty: Team owners want to know ‘who’s running NASCAR?’

Fun read. Now Brian is going to have to put down his scotch and fly to the damn track every weekend till this blows over. I'm going to venture to guess he'll be at the drivers meeting this Sunday.
 
I don't think that Pearson was in junk most of his career. However there will always be a debate about petty/ pearson. Both were great and made great runs.
 
His take on Danica is painfully true. I wish she could run better and be competitive.
 
Richard Petty is about to be fined. Good take on BF's leadership. If he spent time talking to drivers and fans at the track over the years, he probably wouldn't have made half of the destructive decisions he has.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think even Richard Petty knows The Silver Fox was the best ever.
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Hard to argue with that, nobody made it look any more pure or easier.
But it is a hard thing to measure. Pearson had the better win percentage but Petty did not get as many weekends off. Probably more fatigue and compromises had to be made just to keep with the schedule. In contrast Pearson and the Woods Brothers selected their races and had more time for prep.

Again, I think there are more arguments for Pearson being the GOAT, but there are no clear or absolute means for comparisons, imo.
 
Richard Petty: From the time this sport started, it was pure racing. Now, it’s show business. It’s changed a little at a time, without anybody realizing it. TV was a factor. When big sponsors came in, they changed it, too. When Winston (cigarettes) got involved, it changed things by exposing us all over the country (fewer races but bigger markets). TV exploded the show business part even more because they’re into show business; they’re not into the racing business. Fox and NBC dictate a lot of what goes on, so they’re covering it more like show business than racing. And that’s good because the sponsors get more attention. But sometimes the owners and drivers would rather not see so much of the show business part. From the first green flag to the checkered, all that is still racing. Everything else is show business.

I think that in order for any sport to be successful it also has to be entertaining but the entertainment should come from players and competition and the game itself. IMO, Nascar has made a series of rule changes that have taken the sport out of the series and instead added gimmicks that cheapen the value of the championship or even things like finishing on the lead lap. The last thing Nascar should have done was to try and become more like stick and ball and instead celebrated its uniqueness. When I hear terms like "overtime" and "playoffs" during a Nascar broadcast I want to blow chow as it should not be. IDK if the caution clock will come to cup or not but if so there will be little doubt the series has jumped the shark.

If any of these initiatives had added younger viewers and more fans I would need to keep my pie hole shut and either leave quietly or remain quietly. As it is all Brian France has managed to do is to alienate potential fans and enrage former and current fans. How does this make any sense on any level?

rocket dawg said:
His take on Danica is painfully true. I wish she could run better and be competitive.
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Unless the 10 team has a particularly good day or crashes out they will usually come in no better than 20th and no worse than 27th. A couple of years ago I thought the team was capable of regularly finishing top 20 and then increasing that gradually to include some top 15's with occasional top 10's sprinkled in. It hasn't happened and at this point it seems like 20-27 is the sweet spot for the team and the higher the finish means the higher the attrition rate. I have no idea what is or is not working for the team but it has to be hard on everyone when the pressure to get results is not present. I am sure everyone on the team would like better results but no one is going to lose their livelihood if the team continues finishing in the 20-27 range.

29-4 said:
Richard Petty is about to be fined. Good take on BF's leadership. If he spent time talking to drivers and fans at the track over the years, he probably wouldn't have made half of the destructive decisions he has.
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Even if Brian France did a 180 and all of a sudden became competent and cordial the perception would always be that he was a tool with limited intelligence. Family run companies can do even better in the second generation than the first but normally if the third generation is given a turn at the wheel things go to pot. By the time the third generation has rolled around they have not been exposed to the things successful people do and often times have lived a life of privilege.

Greg said:
Hard to argue with that, nobody made it look any more pure or easier.
But it is a hard thing to measure. Pearson had the better win percentage but Petty did not get as many weekends off. Probably more fatigue and compromises had to be made just to keep with the schedule. In contrast Pearson and the Woods Brothers selected their races and had more time for prep.

Again, I think there are more arguments for Pearson being the GOAT, but there are no clear or absolute means for comparisons, imo.
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I agree as it is all subjective as I have Bobby Isaac rated a lot higher then a lot of the others as Pearson thought very highly of him and Isaac was on his own from a young age and had to figure a lot of things out for himself. I agree there is a lot more to assigning greatness than just looking at wins and champs.
 
how many races does brian france attend?

i figure, daytona, indy, coca cola 600 richmond fall race and all the chase races for sure

did his dad and grandpa attend every race?
 
What Skoal says about the third generation running a family business is often true, to the point of being a widely accepted business principle. Probably true of Brian France too. However, he was dealt a very tough hand, and it is not clear someone else would have done a lot better. During the decade before BZF was handed the top job, the stock car industry had massively overbuilt based on the blind assumption that all these millions of fans had been "earned" and magically converted to lifelong fans, but nothing could have been more wrong. The sheep moved out to graze in another pasture as quickly as they had moved in. Not anyone's fault, but France often gets blamed for it.

France also is criticized here and elsewhere in social media for not listening to fans, but some of his mistakes originate from listening too much to fickle bitch-before-you-think fans. And that led to such things as the elimination chase, which cheapens the championship and marginalizes the regular season. And replacing the world's flattest point scale with one even flatter. And other blunders too.

Richard Petty criticizes France for not "taking care of the drivers" enough, like Big Bill and Bill Jr had done. But others castigate France for watering down the sport through safety initiatives that accomplish more for the drivers than anything else he could have done.

My point is, it is a tough job, and those here who claim to have all the answers without even working at it are seriously delusional. My $0.02.
 
LewTheShoe said:
France also is criticized here and elsewhere in social media for not listening to fans, but some of his mistakes originate from listening too much to fickle bitch-before-you-think fans. And that led to such things as the elimination chase, which cheapens the championship and marginalizes the regular season. And replacing the world's flattest point scale with one even flatter. And other blunders too.
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I would guess that there was never a majority of NASCAR fans that supported the Chase, The Elimination Chase, the elimination of racing back to the caution, the Lucky Dog, the Wave Around, the waiver for the Chase, the random inclusion of a 13th car in the Chase etc. I think in all of these things, he listened to a small minority of voices in the media.

It didn't take a genius to see that all of these things were terrible. It took someone with a modicum of commons sense and ability to understand the fan base.
 
29-4 said:
I would guess that there was never a majority of NASCAR fans that supported the Chase, The Elimination Chase, the elimination of racing back to the caution, the Lucky Dog, the Wave Around, the waiver for the Chase, the random inclusion of a 13th car in the Chase etc. I think in all of these things, he listened to a small minority of voices in the media.

It didn't take a genius to see that all of these things were terrible. It took someone with a modicum of commons sense and ability to understand the fan base.
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Yes, you are guessing.
 
29-4 said:
I would guess that there was never a majority of NASCAR fans that supported the Chase, The Elimination Chase, the elimination of racing back to the caution, the Lucky Dog, the Wave Around, the waiver for the Chase, the random inclusion of a 13th car in the Chase etc. I think in all of these things, he listened to a small minority of voices in the media.

It didn't take a genius to see that all of these things were terrible. It took someone with a modicum of commons sense and ability to understand the fan base.
Click to expand...
IMO, France's addiction to "game 7 moments" stems from whiny fans that refuse to accept, or are unable to understand, that not every race can be a great cliffhanger with a side-by-side finish. Faced with declining numbers as the sheep migrated to their next pasture, Nascar's addiction to game 7 moments became even more desperate.

Concerning racing back to the line (and the Lucky Dog compromise), I disagree that fans opposed this, but even if they did, it does not matter. Fans don't get a vote on such a basic principle of safety, IMO. It is pure lunacy to force the drivers to race at speed through crash sites, potentially side-by-side racing for position.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Richard Petty: From the time this sport started, it was pure racing. Now, it’s show business. It’s changed a little at a time, without anybody realizing it. TV was a factor. When big sponsors came in, they changed it, too. When Winston (cigarettes) got involved, it changed things by exposing us all over the country (fewer races but bigger markets). TV exploded the show business part even more because they’re into show business; they’re not into the racing business. Fox and NBC dictate a lot of what goes on, so they’re covering it more like show business than racing. And that’s good because the sponsors get more attention. But sometimes the owners and drivers would rather not see so much of the show business part. From the first green flag to the checkered, all that is still racing. Everything else is show business.

I think that in order for any sport to be successful it also has to be entertaining but the entertainment should come from players and competition and the game itself. IMO, Nascar has made a series of rule changes that have taken the sport out of the series and instead added gimmicks that cheapen the value of the championship or even things like finishing on the lead lap. The last thing Nascar should have done was to try and become more like stick and ball and instead celebrated its uniqueness. When I hear terms like "overtime" and "playoffs" during a Nascar broadcast I want to blow chow as it should not be. IDK if the caution clock will come to cup or not but if so there will be little doubt the series has jumped the shark.

If any of these initiatives had added younger viewers and more fans I would need to keep my pie hole shut and either leave quietly or remain quietly. As it is all Brian France has managed to do is to alienate potential fans and enrage former and current fans. How does this make any sense on any level?
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I've said for years that TV has been the undoing of the sport. I really don't blame Brian France for a lot that goes on. I really don't think he has a lot to say. When that contract was signed for the 2001 season that sport was forever changed.
 
I can picture brian France sitting at home watching the race texting officials at the track saying "this is getting boring.throw a debris caution"
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
I've said for years that TV has been the undoing of the sport. I really don't blame Brian France for a lot that goes on. I really don't think he has a lot to say. When that contract was signed for the 2001 season that sport was forever changed.
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Would have changed no matter.the espn of today is nowhere near the espn of 15 years ago
 
LewTheShoe said:
What Skoal says about the third generation running a family business is often true, to the point of being a widely accepted business principle. Probably true of Brian France too. However, he was dealt a very tough hand, and it is not clear someone else would have done a lot better. During the decade before BZF was handed the top job, the stock car industry had massively overbuilt based on the blind assumption that all these millions of fans had been "earned" and magically converted to lifelong fans, but nothing could have been more wrong. The sheep moved out to graze in another pasture as quickly as they had moved in. Not anyone's fault, but France often gets blamed for it.

France also is criticized here and elsewhere in social media for not listening to fans, but some of his mistakes originate from listening too much to fickle bitch-before-you-think fans. And that led to such things as the elimination chase, which cheapens the championship and marginalizes the regular season. And replacing the world's flattest point scale with one even flatter. And other blunders too.

Richard Petty criticizes France for not "taking care of the drivers" enough, like Big Bill and Bill Jr had done. But others castigate France for watering down the sport through safety initiatives that accomplish more for the drivers than anything else he could have done.

My point is, it is a tough job, and those here who claim to have all the answers without even working at it are seriously delusional. My $0.02.
Click to expand...

I agree that BF could not have come in at a worse time and chinks the armor were present even before he took office. While BF is responsible for a lot of the gimmicks that have entered Nascar when he was handed the keys to the series he had one foot on a banana peel and the other on ice.

I think the impetus for some of the questionable changes Nascar has made can be laid at the feet of the networks broadcasting the series. Fans are not going to come up with or sign off on the current method used to crown a champ, they don't like that a driver can miss multiple races and still be eligible to win a championship and don't even mention the caution clock. The perception held by drivers, the media and the fans is that Nascar will periodically throw caution flags when they are not necessary in order to "reset" the race and give teams a chance to pit and have the field get bunched up. As often happens one caution flag will breed another and another and another so for Nascar the original bogus caution flag is the gift that keeps on giving as im short order you have most of the field on the lead lap.

IMO the biggest boost Nascar could receive is to be perceived as an organization with integrity and in order for that to happen I think the barn needs to be cleaned out and new management installed. It wouldn't mean that fans would have to like every decision that was made but at least they could be confident that what was a foul one week would be the same the next week.

LewTheShoe said:
IMO, France's addiction to "game 7 moments" stems from whiny fans that refuse to accept, or are unable to understand, that not every race can be a great cliffhanger with a side-by-side finish. Faced with declining numbers as the sheep migrated to their next pasture, Nascar's addiction to game 7 moments became even more desperate.

Concerning racing back to the line (and the Lucky Dog compromise), I disagree that fans opposed this, but even if they did, it does not matter. Fans don't get a vote on such a basic principle of safety, IMO. It is pure lunacy to force the drivers to race at speed through crash sites, potentially side-by-side racing for position.
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The funny thing is that many of the stick and ball sports don't even make it to a game 7 and if so there is not a bunch of drama with buzzer beating goals, shots and home runs. One of the best hockey games I ever saw was in the 70's between the Soviet Red Army Team and the Montreal Canadiens and it ended in a 3-3 tie. We should all understand that occasionally there will be door to door battles for the win but normally the leader will cross the stripe without fear of being caught.

KodiakRusty89 said:
I've said for years that TV has been the undoing of the sport. I really don't blame Brian France for a lot that goes on. I really don't think he has a lot to say. When that contract was signed for the 2001 season that sport was forever changed.
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Nascar takes money from so many different sources and are beholden to so many entities it is a wonder the situation is not even worse.
 
jasn88cubs said:
I can picture brian France sitting at home watching the race texting officials at the track saying "this is getting boring.throw a debris caution"
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Brian, watching the races?
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Even if Brian France did a 180 and all of a sudden became competent and cordial the perception would always be that he was a tool with limited intelligence. Family run companies can do even better in the second generation than the first but normally if the third generation is given a turn at the wheel things go to pot. By the time the third generation has rolled around they have not been exposed to the things successful people do and often times have lived a life of privilege.
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Well said and amen to this statement. :booya:
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
IMO the biggest boost Nascar could receive is to be perceived as an organization with integrity and in order for that to happen I think the barn needs to be cleaned out and new management installed. It wouldn't mean that fans would have to like every decision that was made but at least they could be confident that what was a foul one week would be the same the next week.
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Yes, but not gonna happen until Brian's sister and uncle decide a change is needed.
 
LewTheShoe said:
What Skoal says about the third generation running a family business is often true, to the point of being a widely accepted business principle. Probably true of Brian France too. However, he was dealt a very tough hand, and it is not clear someone else would have done a lot better. During the decade before BZF was handed the top job, the stock car industry had massively overbuilt based on the blind assumption that all these millions of fans had been "earned" and magically converted to lifelong fans, but nothing could have been more wrong. The sheep moved out to graze in another pasture as quickly as they had moved in. Not anyone's fault, but France often gets blamed for it.

France also is criticized here and elsewhere in social media for not listening to fans, but some of his mistakes originate from listening too much to fickle bitch-before-you-think fans. And that led to such things as the elimination chase, which cheapens the championship and marginalizes the regular season. And replacing the world's flattest point scale with one even flatter. And other blunders too.

Richard Petty criticizes France for not "taking care of the drivers" enough, like Big Bill and Bill Jr had done. But others castigate France for watering down the sport through safety initiatives that accomplish more for the drivers than anything else he could have done.

My point is, it is a tough job, and those here who claim to have all the answers without even working at it are seriously delusional. My $0.02.
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Good points all. He can't win no matter what he does. With fans, teams, drivers, media, never going to make all happy. Those happy don't say ****. Those not happy are going to bitch and whine so they get heard. B
 
Ford 222 said:
Good points all. He can't win no matter what he does. With fans, teams, drivers, media, never going to make all happy. Those happy don't say sh!t. Those not happy are going to bitch and whine so they get heard. B
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Those empty bleachers make it profoundly clear that there are fewer and fewer happy don't say sh!t's out there.
 
I'd love to know the inside story behind the lower aero dependency movement. Brian France has always preached that the quality of the racing - he calls it the on track product - is the Holy Grail to Nascar. The thing is, he has had a tormented, misguided idea of what that looks like and how to measure it. Responding to "fans," France has been a believer in pack racing on fast intermediate tracks... making the 1.5 milers drive like Daytona or Talladega. This was the rationale behind the high drag package that was tested last year at Indy and Michigan (inspired by the truck series, I believe).

Somewhere along the way, his mind got changed and he has allowed, and hopefully embraced, the low downforce era to take hold. Not 100% sure I'm right, but I'm giving major credit for that to Gene Stefanyshyn, VP of Innovation and Racing Development, for bringing better science into the discussion. Also, a major assist to the Drivers Council and Carl Edwards. This was a major change of belief for France, foregoing his beloved parity to put the race back in the hands of the drivers. I hope he doesn't revert to seeking parity above all else, but that is a risk to those of us who believe low downforce is the proper way forward. JMO.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I'd love to know the inside story behind the lower aero dependency movement. Brian France has always preached that the quality of the racing - he calls it the on track product - is the Holy Grail to Nascar. The thing is, he has had a tormented, misguided idea of what that looks like and how to measure it. Responding to "fans," France has been a believer in pack racing on fast intermediate tracks... making the 1.5 milers drive like Daytona or Talladega. This was the rationale behind the high drag package that was tested last year at Indy and Michigan (inspired by the truck series, I believe).

Somewhere along the way, his mind got changed and he has allowed, and hopefully embraced, the low downforce era to take hold. Not 100% sure I'm right, but I'm giving major credit for that to Gene Stefanyshyn, VP of Innovation and Racing Development, for bringing better science into the discussion. Also, a major assist to the Drivers Council and Carl Edwards. This was a major change of belief for France, foregoing his beloved parity to put the race back in the hands of the drivers. I hope he doesn't revert to seeking parity above all else, but that is a risk to those of us who believe low downforce is the proper way forward. JMO.
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The 2015 rules package, more downforce less HP was another demonstration of his stupidity. An attempt to get more pack racing, to salvage cookie cutters and Indy.
Brian doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
 
Has the time finally come with " You need us, more than we need you " is no longer in NASCARs favor ?, or is more equal now, the teams and NASCAR need each other
 
The day Richard kicks his feet up and sells his stake in Nascar is the day you'll hear his true feelings about Brian France, the same way you heard his true feelings about princess Danica a few years ago.
 
timmyholton said:
did his dad and grandpa attend every race?
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Actually , yes they did . They walked through the garage . Stopped and chatted with everyone from owners to drivers to crew. They had a finger on the pulse of the sport and asked questions . They were in touch.
 
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