Rumor mill

Idk about that subpar pit crew thing Biff...the 24/5 crews aren't near as good as the 48/88. The 5 crew is "ok", they really shined in the fall Richmond Xfinity race with Chase, but that ain't saying much.
 
havick is probably acting the way he is because he wants the best deal he can get from SHR. There is alot to be said for being an organizations flagship team. the direction the entire team takes and engineering is directed toward the flagship driver. If your top driver comes and says we need the car to do this or that. where do you think the money for R&D gets spent? its more likely to be spent on the teams top driver. I feel this is one of the reasons for kahne's issues. I also suspect he has something else going on that perhaps he could be hiding. This sort of thing is also why in many cases you see multi car teams with 1 or 2 teams doing well and the rest not.

I would be pretty surprised if harvick leaves SHR, but none the less why not see what your market value is out there by entertaining another offer.
 
The #5 was a Papa Hendricks entry and was originally used as the test bed for the teams in-house R&D, Don't know what, if anything, has changed but the #5 has been the red-headed stepchild in the HMS stable for a long time. Can't see Harvick in that car.
 
Bobw said:
The #5 was a Papa Hendricks entry and was originally used as the test bed for the teams in-house R&D, Don't know what, if anything, has changed but the #5 has been the red-headed stepchild in the HMS stable for a long time. Can't see Harvick in that car.
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Careful saying that around here. Nobody wants to believe it.

Moody ripped one of his callers in half a couple weeks ago for suggesting this same thing. There's no denying that something has always been off there.
 
Bobw said:
The #5 was a Papa Hendricks entry and was originally used as the test bed for the teams in-house R&D, Don't know what, if anything, has changed but the #5 has been the red-headed stepchild in the HMS stable for a long time. Can't see Harvick in that car.
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Kyle Busch did alright, especially as young as he was, in that car and Mark Martin almost won a title in it. Kahne even did pretty well for a couple of years. But generally there's one car in the organization that's just not all the way there.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Kyle Busch did alright, especially as young as he was, in that car and Mark Martin almost won a title in it. Kahne even did pretty well for a couple of years. But generally there's one car in the organization that's just not all the way there.
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That was the 25 car for years, but it's been the 5 for awhile now. Since HMS expanded to four teams in 2002, I'm struggling to remember a year when all four were competitive.
 
ToyYoda said:
That was the 25 car for years, but it's been the 5 for awhile now. Since HMS expanded to four teams in 2002, I'm struggling to remember a year when all four were competitive.
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Edit: I did think of one year, 2012. But other than that, I'm drawing a blank.
 
At ~ 19:45 they start talking about the Harvick deal: http://frontstretch.com/podcast/2016-frontstretch-podcast-episode-9-2016-aaa-400-drive-for-autism/

Bowles said Childers is set at SHR and won't leave. Last year, Childers said Harvick is the last driver he'll ever CC and also said when he gets to that point of retiring he's comfortable with SHR knowing they'll do whatever they can to put him in another role within the organization.

Ford may offer a max contract, and if Harvick were to accept HMS would attempt to buy out Larson from CGR. Regardless, it sounds like Kahne's time is up at HMS.
 
ToyYoda said:
Edit: I did think of one year, 2012. But other than that, I'm drawing a blank.
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2012 was probably the best one. 2013 was alright but Gordon struggled to even make the Chase that year, although he did go on to have a good one.
 
FLRacingFan said:
At ~ 19:45 they start talking about the Harvick deal: http://frontstretch.com/podcast/2016-frontstretch-podcast-episode-9-2016-aaa-400-drive-for-autism/

Bowles said Childers is set at SHR and won't leave. Last year, Childers said Harvick is the last driver he'll ever CC and also said when he gets to that point of retiring he's comfortable with SHR knowing they'll do whatever they can to put him in another role within the organization.

Ford may offer a max contract, and if Harvick were to accept HMS would attempt to buy out Larson from CGR. Regardless, it sounds like Kahne's time is up at HMS.
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So the Larson stuff isn't just fan speculation by us then? See! We do be kinda smart here sometimes guys.
 
Bobw said:
The #5 was a Papa Hendricks entry and was originally used as the test bed for the teams in-house R&D, Don't know what, if anything, has changed but the #5 has been the red-headed stepchild in the HMS stable for a long time. Can't see Harvick in that car.
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Once Gordon came along, the 25 team was always the weak link in the Hendrick stable, not the 5. Once Dale Jr. came along and the 25 morphed into the 88, you can definitely argue that the 5 eventually became the weak link in the stable, but the 5 was never at the bottom until recently. It's still a full blown Hendrick car with Hendrick employees, so I find it hard to believe there is much of a pecking order there. The bottom line is that Kahne and Rodden just aren't getting it done for whatever reason(s).
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Careful saying that around here. Nobody wants to believe it.

Moody ripped one of his callers in half a couple weeks ago for suggesting this same thing. There's no denying that something has always been off there.
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Something off with the 5? When? Terry at the end of his run, Casey Mears' year, and the last couple years under Kahne. Other than that, the 5 has always been strong since the beginning.
 
2 Sweet said:
Once Gordon came along, the 25 team was always the weak link in the Hendrick stable, not the 5. Once Dale Jr. came along and the 25 morphed into the 88, you can definitely argue that the 5 eventually became the weak link in the stable, but the 5 was never at the bottom until recently. It's still a full blown Hendrick car with Hendrick employees, so I find it hard to believe there is much of a pecking order there. The bottom line is that Kahne and Rodden just aren't getting it done for whatever reason(s).
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From 1992-2007, the 25 team won only four races: Jerry Nadeau at Atlanta in 2000, Joe Nemechek at Richmond in 2003, Brian Vickers at Talladega in 2006, and Casey Mears at Charlotte in 2007. It was the red-headed stepchild team for sure.
 
ToyYoda said:
From 1992-2007, the 25 team won only four races: Jerry Nadeau at Atlanta in 2000, Joe Nemechek at Richmond in 2003, Brian Vickers at Talladega in 2006, and Casey Mears at Charlotte in 2007. It was the red-headed stepchild team for sure.
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Yep.

And in 30+ years of racing, the Hendrick #5 has 38 wins. Not bad at all IMO.
 
It's a number.

At HMS, where every single last detail is scrutinized to the nth degree across the organization and every piece of every car is the best that's available this week, isn't this stuff all down to people?
 
2 Sweet said:
Once Gordon came along, the 25 team was always the weak link in the Hendrick stable, not the 5. Once Dale Jr. came along and the 25 morphed into the 88, you can definitely argue that the 5 eventually became the weak link in the stable, but the 5 was never at the bottom until recently. It's still a full blown Hendrick car with Hendrick employees, so I find it hard to believe there is much of a pecking order there. The bottom line is that Kahne and Rodden just aren't getting it done for whatever reason(s).
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Someone's got that HMS history figured out. It was the #25 that everyone considered to be the weak link & yes, that #25 became the #88. Heck, to this day I still use the #25 to pull up Jr's frequency when I'm at the track. I'm too damn lazy to reprogram my scanner.
 
aunty dive said:
It's a number.

At HMS, where every single last detail is scrutinized to the nth degree across the organization and every piece of every car is the best that's available this week, isn't this stuff all down to people?
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Exactly.

So the question becomes this: what people need to stay, and what people need to go? There's a reason the #5 car isn't running as well as the others at HMS, and it has nothing to do with the car number or the equipment.
 
2 Sweet said:
Exactly.

So the question becomes this: what people need to stay, and what people need to go? There's a reason the #5 car isn't running as well as the others at HMS, and it has nothing to do with the car number or the equipment.
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So Kasey has to go. :)
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Someone's got that HMS history figured out. It was the #25 that everyone considered to be the weak link & yes, that #25 became the #88. Heck, to this day I still use the #25 to pull up Jr's frequency when I'm at the track. I'm too damn lazy to reprogram my scanner.
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Tim Richmond won 9 races in 1.5 years driving the Hendrick #25. Other drivers after Tim have combined to win 8 races in that car in the 20 years after that, before it became the #88.

I credit @ToyYoda for inspiring me to take a look on racing reference for all these cool statistics. What a great site
 
2 Sweet said:
Tim Richmond won 9 races in 1.5 years driving the Hendrick #25. Other drivers after Tim have combined to win 8 races in that car in the 20 years after that, before it became the #88.

I credit @ToyYoda for inspiring me to take a look on racing reference for all these cool statistics. What a great site
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Another decent site for some NASCAR number research....

www.driveraverages.com
 
2 Sweet said:
Exactly.

So the question becomes this: what people need to stay, and what people need to go? There's a reason the #5 car isn't running as well as the others at HMS, and it has nothing to do with the car number or the equipment.
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They've always had a bad team. The number has nothing to do with it. It's hard to stretch too recourses to all 4 teams. Every team has one car that is t up to car, other then JGR. Kahne might be part of the problem, but not all of it. If Larson goes to be the 4th wheel at Hendrick expect similar struggles. I just wonder if the board will be as critical of him as Kahne or make excuses because you like him.
 
I would rather take Blaney than Larson, Larson has been in position to win several times and hasn't closed the deal. I think Blaney has a higher ceiling of the two.
 
CalTenn said:
I would rather take Blaney than Larson, Larson has been in position to win several times and hasn't closed the deal. I think Blaney has a higher ceiling of the two.
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Looking objectively at it, do you think Larson has matured at the same rate as the other guys, elliot, blaney, etc? Yes Larson has had the opportunity but has he had the maturity? The other guys didn't have the opportunity, but maybe racing at the lower levels they got more mature quicker than Larson did. Similar to basketball, some guys that come out of college too soon aren't mature enough for the pro game, versus guys that play college ball for 4 years and then come into the NBA.

Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of either guy just yet, I'm just throwing that question out there.
 
Being a Stewart fan for as long as I have been, it has been my theory he is retiring partly for the switch to Ford. He's been a loyal GM guy through and through. His reason for leaving JGR when they went to Toyota was in part to the Japanese and WWII. Granted, Ford is an American company. I think he saw this as a good excuse to bail out and go play. If his dirt cars are still Chevrolet next year, I will still believe that.
 
I see your point and you may be right, Blaney just seems to get a lot out the old number 21and seems to do it more consistently than Larson.
 
Larson was considered the best prospect back in 2012 before we knew how good Elliott, blaney, jones were. All these other prospects show gradual improvement year to year, Dillon included. Larson has a few flash in the pan runs, but that's it.
 
That's not even including Chris Buescher who I also think is a better talent
 
DaBiff1618 said:
Larson was considered the best prospect back in 2012 before we knew how good Elliott, blaney, jones were. All these other prospects show gradual improvement year to year, Dillon included. Larson has a few flash in the pan runs, but that's it.
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I think Larson has talent, but it may have been a bit overestimated as he was a bright spot in an otherwise empty talent pool in the early 2010's. So far this decade, Kevin Conway, Andy Lally, Stephen Leicht, and Brett Moffitt have won Sprint Cup ROTY honors, which gives you an idea how dry the well was before the current crop of young talent. All four of those guys were out of a Cup ride the following year BTW.
 
Here's why Harvick is going to go to Hendrick:

There is a huge risk with SHR not only switching manufacturers, but also starting to build their own chassis's. Harvick is too late in his career to throw potentially a couple of seasons away to be a part of a rebuilding phase. He knows he doesn't have that much time left if he wants to ride this wave of momentum and continue to fight for another championship.

He will lose Rodney, yes. But he also knows who built the equipment he won his championship with, that is HMS. He's done so well in a Hendrick satellite car that he would be foolish NOT to go straight to the source. The cars he's had so much success in the last couple season will NOT be what he drives next year. New engine, new body, new chassis. It might be a smooth transition or it might not. Again, it's not a risk he has time to take. He spent enough years behind the wheel of an RCR dump truck to have any patience left for what could happen to SHR after 2016 wraps.

He's also a person that the 5 team will support and feed off of right off the bat. He's very demanding, and that's why he's so successful, and he will build the teams confidence to new heights. Kasey seems pretty passive. Happy Harvick is not. So he might be what the 5 team needs to get structured and start putting up results.

He's always gotten the most out of his cars compared to his teammates at RCR and SHR. I think you put him in an HMS ride and he becomes what they need to take care of the Gibbs cars.
 
ToyYoda said:
I think Larson has talent, but it may have been a bit overestimated as he was a bright spot in an otherwise empty talent pool in the early 2010's. So far this decade, Kevin Conway, Andy Lally, Stephen Leicht, and Brett Moffitt have won Sprint Cup ROTY honors, which gives you an idea how dry the well was before the current crop of young talent. All four of those guys were out of a Cup ride the following year BTW.
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He has talent for sure, I just don't think he has elite talent. He's like a B driver that's getting A+ hype. And yikes that's a terrible list lol. The ROY award basically became meaningless after those couple of years
 
Bobw said:
The #5 was a Papa Hendricks entry and was originally used as the test bed for the teams in-house R&D, Don't know what, if anything, has changed but the #5 has been the red-headed stepchild in the HMS stable for a long time. Can't see Harvick in that car.
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The #5 was the original flagship team, then Rick Hendrick created the #25 for his dad Papa Joe and Tim Richmond, sometime used for R & D
 
Rodney builds fast cars but isn't a very good in race crew chief. They always take 4 tires on the last stop and come out 8th, when we know clean air is king and it's really hard to pass. He also always sets up cars for long runs when everybody and their mother knows these races will always come down to late race restarts. It doesn't matter how fast the cars are that he builds if the team can't close the deal. Harvick is an alpha personality and I agree he won't let the team dump all over him like a Kahne or Larson would. Both guys have talent but aren't demanding enough of their teams to step up their game. Kyle Busch, Jimmie, and Harvick are always considered dousches because they get onto their respective teams but I also think that's why their so successful. People respond well to adveristy
 
DaBiff1618 said:
He has talent for sure, I just don't think he has elite talent. He's like a B driver that's getting A+ hype. And yikes that's a terrible list lol. The ROY award basically became meaningless after those couple of years
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Hopefully we're starting another run of rookies like we had from 1999-2006. That was probably the best stream of rookies the sport has ever seen.
 
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Can you all just create a we hate Kasey kahne thread so I can just avoid all your bs
 
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