Said my piece, so now the stupid stuff

Whizzer

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I said my piece on the important things observed during the running of the race at Watkins Glen. So now here is my take on the Harvick / Gordon deal, an opinion not offered until several views of the incident were observed and comments duly noted.

Jeff ran out of gas shortly after taking the white flag. He wiggled and got fuel until turn six, when he ran out again. Junior came up behind him and Gordon tried to block, got his ears whacked, but stayed the course as the car picked fuel up again, then faltered.

Gordon is wiggling the car to get fuel to the pickup. It would seem if Harvick was paying attention he would have seen this, but for the moment let's assume Harvick failed to see the slowing car moving back and forth on the track. SO......................Gordon took the inside line in turn eleven, just as he is suppossed to do, stay low (that's what they are told at the driver meeting) and Harvick, hits Gordon.

The contact drives Gordon up the track and in either a correction move or the result of Harvick not backing off, to the fast line of traffic, trying to keep the car under control and Harvick hits him again, does NOT back off, and spins Gordon into the outside retaining wall.

The only thing wrong is, Harvick had time to see Gordon had run out of gas, and even if he couldn't stop from hitting him, drove him into the circumstance of being in the wrong place, the fast line, and hit him again.

The show after the race with Barry Dodtson and Chad Little had an interview with Harvick, and Harvick admitted it was his fault for hitting Jeff the second time. So who really was to blame??
And is it really important??
NAH !!!!! But it is an opportunity for ABG'ers to try, once again, to crucify Jeff Gordon. Most who do secretly wish thier driver had Gordon's talent.
There is one consolation however. Jeff got his message across, even though most missed it in the feverent effort to malign him, Harvick confessed, Junior said his peice and Matt Kenseth owes Lady Luck more than most of us will make in a life time.
 
I respectfully disagree.


First things first, what the hell is a ABG'er?


Well I will break this down by the driver quotes after the race was over.

Junior:
"Yea, he was running out of gas. I ran into the back of him because he ran in front of me. I knew I was cartching him a lot, probably 50 mph faster than he was going. Wherever I went, he went, and I knew that he was going to try and block me, and I couldn't lift to because the 29 was coming. I guess the 29 ran over him too. Not very smart on his part. I would've just taken the spots I lost because I ran out of gas. You're not going to block me all the way around the last two corners of the racetrack. I don't care who you are, you don't need to block anybody the last two laps. He ended up in the wall and lost a bunch of spots, so you tell me who made the bad decision."
I agree with what Junior says, because if Jeff Gordon was off the pace, why should he be in the racing line trying to block? He just becomes a moving roadblock out there, with people racing back to the checkers it becomes a liability. Remember, this is the same Jeff Gordon that complained about cars off the pace being in the way, well wasnt he just that here?

Harvick:
"He just ran out of gas. He pulled right up in the groove and I hit him - twice - and the second time he spun out. I hate it that it happen.
Jeff Gordon was in the groove. Was he blocking or trying to get out of the way? Who knows, but because he did try to block Junior I am leaning towards Jeff blocking Harvick. Was it wrong for Harvick to hit him the first time? I would say no. But the second time? Thats more sketchy. It could have been a retaliation to the bump and run move Jeff Gordon pulled earlier in the race.


In the end, it comes down to Jeff being a car off the pace that was in the way of the competitors, and whenever this has happened before it has always been the fault of the car that was off the pace, being that they were a moving chicane. I will stand by that and state that this was Jeff Gordon's fault as well.
 
I'm with RobbyG Fan, couldn't agree more.
When Kevin ran out at Chicagoland, did you see him trying to block others so he can make it to the finish? No, you did not. He pulled off the track, and let the racers race. Why couldn't Jeff do the same thing?
 
It doesn't matter, if your out of gas, get out of the way. Thats like me out of gas on the interstate, trying to get cars going 75 mph to push me to the next Exxon. It aint gonna happen..
 
Agreed, doesnt matter what racetrack you are in, you need to get out of the way regardless, something Jeff Gordon failed to do, which makes him responsible for his 33rd place finish. It was Jeff Gordon's fault.

Something I have noticed recently: Is it me or am I noticing that Jeff Gordon has been getting less and less respect out on the track this season and as this season has progressed. It seems to me that it has gotten considerably worse since his outburst at Sonoma. Any reason as to why this is? I would like to hear what you guys think and if you are noticing the same thing.
 
It's Gordon's responsibility to get out of the groove if he is having trouble. He knows enough to do that much. After Jr hit him you would think he would get the hint. Kevin lost one position because of Jeff so I don't really blame Kevin for the second hit either. Maybe next time Jeff will use his head and move out of the way and not try to play games and block.
 
I respect Jeff Gordon and all, but usually the only time you ever hear him is when he is whining about something. Whined about Robby at Sonoma, even though he wasn't involved in the situation in anyway. Whined about Harvick at the Glen, which he caused the incident himself.

Now I see how Jeff and Jimmie gel together so well...

Jimmie whined about how Kevin wouldn't push him past the 2 car at Indy... was he suppose to? I think not.
 
Originally posted by Whizzer@Aug 11 2003, 01:05 PM
Matt Kenseth owes Lady Luck more than most of us will make in a life time.
Its not all about luck. Kenseth has been racing with his head on straight all season long. He wouldnt be running away with the title if he wasnt.
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan+Aug 11 2003, 01:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RobbyG Fan @ Aug 11 2003, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Whizzer@Aug 11 2003, 01:05 PM
Matt Kenseth owes Lady Luck more than most of us will make in a life time.
Its not all about luck. Kenseth has been racing with his head on straight all season long. He wouldnt be running away with the title if he wasnt. [/b][/quote]
What did ya expect Rob Fan...they need something to rip on about Matt's great season & why Jeff is so frustrated that he can't catch him.
 
Whizzer,

I sense the frustration in your post. Jeff Gordon has had tough times recently, albeit part of it his doing but still its been a tough stretch. I am inviting you to join the other side, to the side of the GOOD Gordon, Robby Gordon. Much less stressful times over here. Join us wontcha? :D :p

Dont get mad... just pokin fun. :lol:
 
Originally posted by majestyx+Aug 11 2003, 04:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (majestyx @ Aug 11 2003, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--RobbyG Fan@Aug 11 2003, 02:37 PM
GOOD Gordon, Robby Gordon.
You mean the one who punted Boris Said out of his way? ;) [/b][/quote]
That was a racing incident. Boris said so in the post race interview. Robby took full blame, apologized to Boris, MB2 Motorsports, and USG and Army, even though Boris said it was a racing incident. When

My offer still stands, Whizzer. Maj, Im extending an offer to you as well. ;) :D
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan+Aug 11 2003, 03:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RobbyG Fan @ Aug 11 2003, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -majestyx@Aug 11 2003, 04:22 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--RobbyG Fan
@Aug 11 2003, 02:37 PM
GOOD Gordon, Robby Gordon.

You mean the one who punted Boris Said out of his way? ;)
That was a racing incident. Boris said so in the post race interview. Robby took full blame, apologized to Boris, MB2 Motorsports, and USG and Army, even though Boris said it was a racing incident. When

My offer still stands, Whizzer. Maj, Im extending an offer to you as well. ;) :D [/b][/quote]
I know that, Robby G. But....NO WAY IN HADES! As it stands now, I will not even have Cingular cell service!!!

And, I guess that folks didn't completly read all that Jeff said in regards to the Gordon/Harvick incident.

"The easiest car to pass out there is (one) running out of (gas)," Gordon said. "I shouldn't blame him. It's our own fault for running out of fuel. It's unfortunate."
costumed-smiley-031.gif
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Aug 11 2003, 05:23 PM
First things first, what the hell is a ABG'er?


You should know Damn well what an ABG'er is as you are a card carrying member of the "Anybody But Gordon" club. I know you like the "other Gordon", but with all due respect he doesn't count as he wasn't around when the whole ABG'er movement started.
 
Originally posted by 4xchampncountin+Aug 11 2003, 07:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4xchampncountin @ Aug 11 2003, 07:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--RobbyG Fan@Aug 11 2003, 05:23 PM
First things first, what the hell is a ABG'er?


You should know Damn well what an ABG'er is as you are a card carrying member of the "Anybody But Gordon" club. I know you like the "other Gordon", but with all due respect he doesn't count as he wasn't around when the whole ABG'er movement started. [/b][/quote]
I'd like to know how I am a "card carrying member of the "Anybody But Gordon" club."

Please explain this to me. Just because in my point of view Jeff was at fault in this race, and several other races might I add, and just because Im not a fan of Jeff Gordon I get put on this so called list? I think the general concensus is 99% of the people believe Jeff was at fault at Watkins Glen and 99% of the people believe Jeff was whining in Sonoma and should just have let the team mates settle their own issues. Does this make the 99% ABG'ers as well?

Just because I dont like Jeff Gordon doesnt mean I should be labeled that. I give respect and credit when it is due. Im sorry but you, as a Jeff Gordon fan, are way to defensive for your own good.
 
Even though he's a Robby Gordon fan, 4xchampncountin, he does have a point. Your being to defensive for your own good. Just because we know who's at fault doesn't mean we hate 'em. Lighten up a little.
 
Originally posted by slick-nick@Aug 12 2003, 12:48 AM
Even though he's a Robby Gordon fan, 4xchampncountin, he does have a point. Your being to defensive for your own good. Just because we know who's at fault doesn't mean we hate 'em. Lighten up a little.
My "defensiveness" as you call it is not really related to this topic only. This guy/girl has done nothing but bash Jeff Gordon and mostly anybody else but Robby Gordon since he/she came on here. Other long-time posters have felt his/her wrath as well.

As to the second point, I didn't see the race as I was in the car most of the day on Sunday. But from what I have seen and heard it sounds like Jeff Gordon wasn't totally innocent in this whole deal by any means. What gets old though is having another race where several people make critical mistakes and yet the only thing you hear about on here is how Jeff Gordon did this wrong and that wrong. I saw the same thing happen for a while when everybody was tearing Junior apart every week towards the end of Paul's tenure here. I saw several long-time posters sort of fade away during that time and I really don't want the same thing happening again.
 
If you watch the replay, you'll notice that Jeff would NOT move out of Jr and Harvick's way. You could see it, everybody could see that Jeff was trying to block. A blind man could see that.
 
I'm not going to say it was intentional for Gordon to slow Harvick and Earnhardt down because THERES CLEARLY NO EVIDENCE to show that he "blocked" but if he knew he was out of fuel (coming to the white flag) and the RPMs and fuel gauge were goin down, I'm questioning why he didnt pit coming to the white flag, and I'm also questioning why he stayed in front of Harvick and Earnhardt coming off turn 11 to the checkered flag, usually if the fuel pressure gauge is out and the RPM gauge isnt functioning you'd find it common courtesy to get the hell out of the way. Lots of things to question but I wont elaborate any further; I think Gordon thought he could make it to the finish on fumes, he couldve if he got out of the way and he wouldve maintained a much better finish.
 
You mean the one who punted Boris Said out of his way?

those road course specialist deserve it.
i'd root for jeffy before i'd root for boris said & ron fellows.
 
Originally posted by 4xchampncountin+Aug 11 2003, 10:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4xchampncountin @ Aug 11 2003, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--slick-nick@Aug 12 2003, 12:48 AM
Even though he's a Robby Gordon fan, 4xchampncountin, he does have a point.&nbsp; Your being to defensive for your own good.&nbsp; Just because we know who's at fault doesn't mean we hate 'em.&nbsp; Lighten up a little.
My "defensiveness" as you call it is not really related to this topic only. This guy/girl has done nothing but bash Jeff Gordon and mostly anybody else but Robby Gordon since he/she came on here. Other long-time posters have felt his/her wrath as well.

As to the second point, I didn't see the race as I was in the car most of the day on Sunday. But from what I have seen and heard it sounds like Jeff Gordon wasn't totally innocent in this whole deal by any means. What gets old though is having another race where several people make critical mistakes and yet the only thing you hear about on here is how Jeff Gordon did this wrong and that wrong. I saw the same thing happen for a while when everybody was tearing Junior apart every week towards the end of Paul's tenure here. I saw several long-time posters sort of fade away during that time and I really don't want the same thing happening again. [/b][/quote]
Im sorry if you dont like what I said but I havent bashed any driver on the circuit at all. All I do is offer my opinions on situations and drivers. If you dont like my opinions, well tough luck, because they are just that, opinions. Again I believe this goes back to you being a very defensive Jeff Gordon fan.

How about taking things in stride? I can fess up when my driver makes a mistake. I offer my opinions and that is all, and I do not do it in a bashing manner. Maybe if some people feel the same way as you do, that I bash other drivers, then please speak up, as I will change my ways, but if not I dont see anything to change on my end, you would need to stop being so defensive.

Please look in the dictionary between opinions and bashers, because I do not bash, just offer my opinions. As far as Paul is concerned, I do not know because I was not here when all that happened.
 
Originally posted by 4xchampncountin+Aug 11 2003, 03:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (4xchampncountin @ Aug 11 2003, 03:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--RobbyG Fan@Aug 11 2003, 05:23 PM
First things first, what the hell is a ABG'er?


You should know Damn well what an ABG'er is as you are a card carrying member of the "Anybody But Gordon" club. I know you like the "other Gordon", but with all due respect he doesn't count as he wasn't around when the whole ABG'er movement started. [/b][/quote]
He was around for part of it, couldn't hang :dual9mm:
 
Matt Kenseth owes Lady Luck more than most of us will make in a life time.
Its not all about luck. Kenseth has been racing with his head on straight all season long. He wouldnt be running away with the title if he wasnt.
What did ya expect Rob Fan...they need something to rip on about Matt's great season & why Jeff is so frustrated that he can't catch him. [/QUOTE]
Should have known this comment would go over someones head. Taking absolutely nothing away from Matt's driving ability, style or talent, but acknowledging one other ingredient needed to win a championship, luck.
I was paying Matt a compliment. He has had good luck this season, a valuable commodity in winning the championship. Lady Luck kept him out of the sand trap Sunday and there have been a host of other incidents where lipstick from Lady Luck was found on his coat tail after the race was over and a costly point loss avoided. He is having the same luck any other past champion had in the year they won a championship. But the year is not over yet and Lady Luck is still in limbo. She could leave at any time. Fickle female that she is. Junior is hanging tough and never, ever count Gordon out. Johnson is a remote possibility and Harvick could do it but doubtful. Lady Luck would have to abandon four others if the fifth place guy in points right now were to do the deed. Should Matt win the championship, he will win it fair and square and should have no criticism of his efforts.


It is a compliment when people try to pee on Jeff Gordon for anything and everything he does. Yet his four championships still hold a special place in the history books.
Most who condemn Gordon do so wishing it were thier driver with the talent, driving skill, over-all team and luck to win 63 races and hold numerous records, not only in the Winston Cup Series but in other venues as well. It is interesting he gets so much scrutiny from ABG'ers, the same ones who are first to cheer when he crashes and the first name they look for on the scroll during a race. Always in the lurking, wondering where Jeff is, always waiting for the wreck, mechanical problem or abandonment by Lady Luck to take him out of contention.

As for the Gordon incident, from three different views, Jeff Gordon did stay in the low groove on the last turn and was booted into the outside groove. To those who speculate he was in the wrong place, where should he have been at that place on the track ?? All any one needs do is look at the tape. He is against the white checked line, Harvick hit him pushing him into the fast line. Harvick could have avoided Gordon and at the same time been blocking the car behind him, but he drove Gordon into the wall when he hit him the second time.
First boot, possibly unavoidable, second boot, avoidable and unnecessary

On the other hand, Junior justifiably did what he had to do to get Jeff out of the way but he didn't wreck him.

Harvick wan't as accomodating. The debate is whether Jeff deserved to be punted into the wall was necessary or avoidable. IF,.... he was blocking, he lost the gamble. BUt were he to do anything else his critics would have found another reason to complain about his actions. Se la vie. :D
 
Luck almost always is a fairly big factor in winning a championship. Catching a caution, missing a wreck at the right time usually comes into play. Kennseth has had things falling his way and the team has been making the right decisions at the right time.
As far as Gordon is concerned if he wanted to be out of the way he should have been down towards the pit road entrance to let the cars take their line to the outside. As it was he wasn't so he got hit. After the first hit it was a matter of where the car went as to if Kevin could miss him. If the car would have went right out of the way then Kevin could have continued. Besides Jeff didn't have problem with hitting Kevin a couple of laps before so why would anybody expect Kevin to go out of his way to avoid hitting Jeff back. I just look at as a deal that Jeff tried to push his luck and lost.
 
Originally posted by Whizzer@Aug 12 2003, 10:55 AM

Most who condemn Gordon do so wishing it were thier driver with the talent, driving skill, over-all team and luck to win 63 races and hold numerous records, not only in the Winston Cup Series but in other venues as well. It is interesting he gets so much scrutiny from ABG'ers, the same ones who are first to cheer when he crashes and the first name they look for on the scroll during a race. Always in the lurking, wondering where Jeff is, always waiting for the wreck, mechanical problem or abandonment by Lady Luck to take him out of contention.

I felt I needed to respond to this, as you labeled me an ABG'er. First of all I didnt even know what an ABG'er was, so that should tell you something. Second, that is not me, I do not wish harm on any driver, I just dont agree with what Jeff Gordon did at Watkins Glen, that doesnt make me an ABG'er. I guess we just agree to disagree.

As far as being jealous that my driver hasnt had the career that Jeff Gordon has, well thats just not true.

Robby Gordon has:
-Won in Off Road Competiton.
-Won 6 Off Road Championships.
-Won the Baja 1000.
-Won the 24 Hours Of Daytona.
-Won in Mickey Thompson Stadium Series.
-Won in IMSA GTO Series.
-Won in SCCA Trans Am Series.
-Won in IROC.
-Won in CART.
-Won in NASCAR.

With that type of resume RG has, I dont think you can say that I am jealous that my driver hasnt accomplished what JG has.
 
As far as Paul is concerned, I do not know because I was not here when all that happened.

Hey, RobbyG fan, that statement is not exactly correct. You have in your signature : Formerly known as robby.31.is.#1. So, does this jog the memory? Click here.
 
Originally posted by Oldgoat@Aug 12 2003, 03:12 PM
Luck almost always is a fairly big factor in winning a championship. Catching a caution, missing a wreck at the right time usually comes into play. Kennseth has had things falling his way and the team has been making the right decisions at the right time.
As far as Gordon is concerned if he wanted to be out of the way he should have been down towards the pit road entrance to let the cars take their line to the outside. As it was he wasn't so he got hit. After the first hit it was a matter of where the car went as to if Kevin could miss him. If the car would have went right out of the way then Kevin could have continued. Besides Jeff didn't have problem with hitting Kevin a couple of laps before so why would anybody expect Kevin to go out of his way to avoid hitting Jeff back. I just look at as a deal that Jeff tried to push his luck and lost.
First part true. Second part, they were not at the entrance to pit road when Harvick hit Gordon the first time. They were in the first one-third of the turn.

I agree, Gordon should have gotten out of the way, but he never got the chance to get that far. No, Gordon gambled and lost when Harvick had his head where the sun don't shine.

If Gordon ha been at the approach to pit road and tried to block Harvick, whoeeeeeeeeee mamma!!! I woulda been on his case like flies on a dung heap. But he wasn't. My last post on the topic. Aren'tcha glad ????? :bounce:
 
Originally posted by majestyx@Aug 12 2003, 11:28 AM
As far as Paul is concerned, I do not know because I was not here when all that happened.

Hey, RobbyG fan, that statement is not exactly correct. You have in your signature : Formerly known as robby.31.is.#1. So, does this jog the memory? Click here.
OK, yeah, thats was a while ago, but I was not one of the contributing factors for Paul's absence.
 
I wasn't saying you were one of the contributing factors of Paul's absence, and neither did you. You stated that you weren't here when all that happened, and I took that to mean that you weren't a contributing member. If I misunderstood, I sincerely apologize. :cheers:
 
Originally posted by majestyx@Aug 12 2003, 12:32 PM
I wasn't saying you were one of the contributing factors of Paul's absence, and neither did you. You stated that you weren't here when all that happened, and I took that to mean that you weren't a contributing member. If I misunderstood, I sincerely apologize. :cheers:
Sorry maj, things have been quite touchy on this thread. Lets just all move on. Michigan is coming up and we need to get the fantasy picks up. Youre going to play right? :D


To everyone else on this thread, Michigan is coming up. Lets hope for a good safe race. :cheers:
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Aug 12 2003, 11:43 AM
Youre going to play right? :D

Might just give it one more try. If I still suck (which is most likely) then it will be the last time. :wacko:
 
Originally posted by Whizzer@Aug 12 2003, 08:55 AM
Lady Luck kept him out of the sand trap Sunday and there have been a host of other incidents where lipstick from Lady Luck was found on his coat tail after the race was over and a costly point loss avoided.
Ya know, it might have been his driving ability that kept him out of the gravel Sunday and NOT just Lady Luck.
 
Originally posted by Whizzer@Aug 12 2003, 08:55 AM
Should have known this comment would go over someones head. Taking absolutely nothing away from Matt's driving ability, style or talent, but acknowledging one other ingredient needed to win a championship, luck.

Mr. Whizzer, you ought say dese thangs in plane english so's us common folk can understand! I'm just a big 'ol farm boy from Wisconsin. :rolleyes:
 
Whine-whine-whine.......Jeff Gordon should go back to the open wheeled cars where you are not supposed to touch each other unless you're out of gas and in the racing groove-then you get the s--t knocked out of you. :blink:
 
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