Seriously, what was different about this Talladega race?

Charlie Spencer

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
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Without getting into the pros and cons of plate racing, what did I miss? To me it looked like most plate races I've seen (tandems excepted). I saw a race that was mostly two lines, with drivers forced to work together or get passed by those who did.

Please tell me what you saw that differed. Again, I'm not asking if what was different was good or bad.
 
Three to 5 cars hooking up couldn’t pull away from the field after green flag pit stops? The outer lane occasionally worked. A car losing a bit of spoiler air didn’t cause a 20 car pile up.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Without getting into the pros and cons of plate racing, what did I miss? To me it looked like most plate races I've seen (tandems excepted). I saw a race that was mostly two lines, with drivers forced to work together or get passed by those who did.

Please tell me what you saw that differed. Again, I'm not asking if what was different was good or bad.
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What were you expecting to be different about the racing with this package? Plate racing is very intriguing, it sucks that you're not a fan of it.:(

It wasn't a major case of following the leader like past seasons. Drivers were able to make huge runs without being stalled out by the leader all the time. For instance drivers like Keselowski, Hamlin, and Logano are excellent at determining which lime would make a run. Then, they would block either lines energy and make it very difficult to pass due to all of the turbulent air. Now, with the wicker bill, ducts, and increased track bar length get the rear of the car off of the ground to allow airflow to go about under the car to allow that old symptom of "the bubble effect" to not be as big of a deal...

Making runs up up to the leader, being able to race underneath another car without the taking the air off of the left-rear of the car being able to race side by side... There were a lot of positives today and it showed in the racing.
 
For those of us who don't like pack racing , we will never be satisfied until cars can pull out and pass by themselves , and then drive away.
I saw this as any old dega race with lots of carnage . I think that the fans of pack racing pay more attention to how many times the cars pass each other back and forth throughout the race. To each there own .
 
StandOnIt said:
If a person couldn't tell that the cars were harder to drive in years and the drivers were racing their butts off, I don't know what to tell ya.
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Logano, Stenhouse, Ky. Busch, and many others were really driving like hell. Getting sideways off the exit of corners and even having to pedal the car at some points. Hell, Blaney almost washed out and saved it.

It was a grade A race to be truthful.
 
Some probably need to study the laws of physics when it is explained and has been explained for years how a pack of cars have more energy than a single car does. There are physical laws at work. It will never happen for a single car and some who don't understand that will continue to be disappointed. Nascar has made a calculated decision to limit speed and around 200 is the magic number. Some ran 202 towards the end, 199 at the first. Instead of whining about the race, one should marvel at the technology that allowed Larson to walk away after his wreck and be smiling about it afterwards or do something else when super speedway races are shown.
 
Hard to tell when teams can't race each other or suffer castigation by their factory overlords. Can't blame NASCAR for that.
 
StandOnIt said:
If a person couldn't tell that the cars were harder to drive in years and the drivers were racing their butts off, I don't know what to tell ya.
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That's my point, I couldn't tell. I can't see 'energy' or air bubbles, or how easy or hard the cars are to drive. @NASCAR Apologist says the cars looked more stable, which I interpret as easier to drive, not harder.
 
StandOnIt said:
Some probably need to study the laws of physics when it is explained and has been explained for years how a pack of cars have more energy than a single car does. There are physical laws at work. It will never happen for a single car and some who don't understand that will continue to be disappointed. Nascar has made a calculated decision to limit speed and around 200 is the magic number. Some ran 202 towards the end, 199 at the first. Instead of whining about the race, one should marvel at the technology that allowed Larson to walk away after his wreck and be smiling about it afterwards or do something else when super speedway races are shown.
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If by 'some' you mean me, please say so directly.
 
Kiante said:
Drivers were able to make huge runs without being stalled out by the leader all the time. For instance drivers like Keselowski, Hamlin, and Logano are excellent at determining which lime would make a run. Then, they would block either lines energy and make it very difficult to pass due to all of the turbulent air.
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Didn't I see a lot of blocking by the leaders today, as usual?

EDIT: I think I got most of your point when I re-read your post.
 
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ReturnTrip said:
Hard to tell when teams can't race each other or suffer castigation by their factory overlords. Can't blame NASCAR for that.
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I can't see much difference there. Whether the manufacturers dictated or divers were free to choose, weren't they still dependent on each other?
 
Kiante said:
What were you expecting to be different about the racing with this package?
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I was expecting this package to result in a race more like what we've seen this year at Cali or the 1.5ers, and not so much like what we've seen here in the past. I was expecting less dependence on other drivers, more being able to pass a car once and pull away from him and not have to pass him repeatedly.

Obviously that wasn't what this package was designed to deliver. My mistake.
 
If you liked Talladega before, you loved it today. If you didn't like it before, you weren't likely to be won over. There was no revolution that was going to change anyone's mind. There are differences every time they change up the variables. On paper there are improvements with this package such as higher HP that brings with it greater throttle response and higher closing rates. However, it's balanced out by a lot of added drag to keep the speeds down. On the whole, people who already liked this kind of racing said they saw a very good race.

I watched about 20 laps of it, it's probably known by now where I stand.
 
gnomesayin said:
If you liked Talladega before, you loved it today. If you didn't like it before, you weren't likely to be won over. There was no revolution that was going to change anyone's mind. There are differences every time they change up the variables. On paper there are improvements with this package such as higher HP that brings with it greater throttle response and higher closing rates. However, it's balanced out by a lot of added drag to keep the speeds down. On the whole, people who already liked this kind of racing said they saw a very good race.

I watched about 20 laps of it, it's probably known by now where I stand.
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Very well said.
 
gnomesayin said:
If you liked Talladega before, you loved it today. If you didn't like it before, you weren't likely to be won over. There was no revolution that was going to change anyone's mind. There are differences every time they change up the variables. On paper there are improvements with this package such as higher HP that brings with it greater throttle response and higher closing rates. However, it's balanced out by a lot of added drag to keep the speeds down. On the whole, people who already liked this kind of racing said they saw a very good race.

I watched about 20 laps of it, it's probably known by now where I stand.
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Likewise, it is still not a product I can endorse. I've kept quiet most of the week and don't really see a need to get into it know. The 'pack tracks', if that's what we call them now, are what they are.
 
Didn't see a whole lot of the race but what I saw was very entertaining. Good racing complete with passing.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
Likewise, it is still not a product I can endorse. I've kept quiet most of the week and don't really see a need to get into it know. The 'pack tracks', if that's what we call them now, are what they are.
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Respectfully, I repeat: please avoid judging the product. I'm after what made this race different from previous plate races.

Based on comments and email, I don't think I understand a lot of what I'm seeing at these two tracks, or even what to look for.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I was expecting this package to result in a race more like what we've seen this year at Cali or the 1.5ers, and not so much like what we've seen here in the past. I was expecting less dependence on other drivers, more being able to pass a car once and pull away from him. Obviously that wasn't what this package was designed to deliver. My mistake.
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Oh no, no Charlie. Its no big deal, as my Dad's father always tells me, "Don't run with your face all snotty, stop and ask somebody."

Nothing wrong with asking a question, I mean it is a forum.:D
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Respectfully, I repeat: please avoid judging the product. I'm after what made this race different from previous plate races.

Based on comments and email, I don't think I understand a lot of what I'm seeing at these two tracks, or even what to look for.
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Using simply the eye test, a lot of what's already been mentioned checks out to me. There was more of the traditional multiple lanes instead of one dominant lane, it was easier to generate runs and gain or lose positions, and at the end it didn't come down to a game of chicken where one or two guys drop down low and no one goes with them.
 
Kiante said:
Oh no, no Charlie. Its no big deal, as my Dad's father always tells me, "Don't run with your face all snotty, stop and ask somebody."

Nothing wrong with asking a question, I mean it is a forum.:D
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I didn't mean asking was a mistake; I meant my expectations were mistaken. It's apparent now that I didn't understand what the package was intended to do. Indeed, I'm now convinced I still don't know. That's mostly because I'm realizing I may not know what they're doing out there in the first place.
:cheers:
 
FLRacingFan said:
Using simply the eye test, a lot of what's already been mentioned checks out to me. There was more of the traditional multiple lanes instead of one dominant lane, it was easier to generate runs and gain or lose positions, and at the end it didn't come down to a game of chicken where one or two guys drop down low and no one goes with them.
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I'm not following the 'multiple lane vs. one dominant lane' comments. I recall most Talladega races were three-wide packs all day long. Am I misremembering or forgetting something?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm not following the 'multiple lane vs. one dominant lane' comments. I recall most Talladega races were three-wide packs all day long. Am I misremembering or forgetting something?
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I guess that's been more of a Daytona thing, but it has happened at Talladega a bit in the Gen-6 plate era. That said, I still don't think the packs have been as bunched and as 'energized' at Talladega as they were today for some time.
 
I listened to the audiocast in the shop and came in with 40ish to go.

It sounded like a good race by sound, and I liked what I saw on TV. Cars that had the ability to pass without getting overly turbulent. If drivers weren't blocking, the 2 crashes wouldn't have happened.
 
Would someone explain 'energy' to me? Are we talking about momentum? Maybe the term has been around all the time but I don't recall hearing it until a couple of years ago.
 
I am breaking it down to 669 fps and compositing it all up, before commencing my report summaries. Being able to see the air at 669 fps is something incredibe.

Disclosure: I can see the wimmins in the stands at 669 fps too.
OMG this is gonna take a while.
 
StandOnIt said:
you said earlier it was two wide?? Knew this thread was bogus.
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Okay, more than one lane. If you think it's bogus, feel free to ignore it. I'm learning stuff anyway.

I have trouble remembering what happened at a race six weeks ago. It's not a memory issue as much as once a race is over, I don't have any reason to remember who won. I've been to over a hundred Cup races and can't tell you who won more than a handful of them. So no, I don't remember the details of how the cars handled here last fall. That's why I'm asking what was different.
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
Respectfully, I repeat: please avoid judging the product. I'm after what made this race different from previous plate races.
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What made this race different from previous plate races is "the product".
Did you see the demonstration of how the air was different with last years car vs today's car.?
Instead of the follow car hitting a bubble of air from the lead car, he could easily ( maybe because of greater HP) run up and bump him. Also many times today the follow car could pull out and try a pass. Getting to the rear quarter panel was not stalling out the car in front. ( as much) Did you notice many times the leader couldn't move fast enough to make a clean block. For me it was a better race and a deserving group won.
 
We talk a lot about needing a pack to go fast. I watched KDB ( not a fan of him) but what he did today with no help even from his own team mates was amazing.
 
Team Penske said:
Did you see the demonstration of how the air was different with last years car vs today's car.?
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No, I didn't.
Team Penske said:
Also many times today the follow car could pull out and try a pass. Getting to the rear quarter panel was not stalling out the car in front. ( as much) Did you notice many times the leader couldn't move fast enough to make a clean block.
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No, I didn't notice, but I acknowledge I wasn't looking for it. My mistaken expectations had me watching to see if the trailing car could pass without help. I was looking for something that wasn't supposed to be there, and so missing what I didn't know to look for.
 
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