Should Amrose have been given the spot back

Should Amrose have been given the spot back


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VaDirt

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So here's my poll. Marcus Ambrose, through a move of sheer stupidity (IMO), inexplicably shut the car off to coast. As he was going up hill, couldn't get the car restarted, and cam to a dead stop allowing 6 cars to pass him under yellow.

NASCAR determined that he didn't maintain speedy, and he ended up losing 6 spots, restarting in 7th. He probably would have been able to hold off JJ for the win had a caution not come out, but we'll never know if he'd have been able to hold off the 48 on a restart.

So my question is, should he have been given the lead back after stopping dead under yellow?

My answer is now.
 
Both Dilner was walking with him, Marcos says he didn't stop. Marcos, when you see the replay, you'll realze you indeed stopped. Four about 4.5 seconds or so. Not only that, you even rolled backward after you got it started and pushed in the clutch.
 
I'm a big fan of Ambrose and will be telling my friend in Australia about this dumb move. Marcos screwed up and though he understands that, he just can't seem to believe the consequences. I'm sure he will when he sees the tape.

I've seen some pretty dumb moves by drivers over the years and this one is up there near the top, but the top continues to be Mark Martin who when leading a race, pulled into the pits with one to go under caution. Ambrose would have had to hold off a hard charging Johnson in order to win, but Marky only had to stay behind the pace car. Stuff happens and Marcos paid for some expensive education today.
 
Well, Ambrose sure saved Jeff from being handed the bonehead move of the race award! :beerbang:
 
I personally find it to be a stupid rule
 
Has everyone forgotten what Biffle did at Chicago last year? And then there was Junyer at Michigan in the June race last year.

Ambrose.... Wrong last name!
 
Has everyone forgotten what Biffle did at Chicago last year? And then there was Junyer at Michigan in the June race last year.

Ambrose.... Wrong last name!

How do you figure? Did Biffle stop dead? No. Did Jr stop? No. As much as it pains me to see a race handed to Johnson, it wasn't NASCAR that did the handing, it was Ambrose.
Most short tracks I know, if a driver stops on the track (unless he's told to), he goes to the rear.
 
From NASCAR.com

By Joe Menzer, NASCAR.COM
June 21, 2010
02:54 PM EDT

Sunday's late-race gaffe by Marcos Ambrose in the Toyota/Save Mart 350 at Infineon Raceway was so stunning, it immediately begged the question.

Did it rank as one of the worst mistakes in the history of NASCAR's top national touring series?

It is important to point out that the winner of Sunday's event, the recipient of Ambrose's unforgivable stupidity, made his own costly late-race mistake just over one month earlier. Memories are short -- and it is important to point out that the winner of Sunday's event, the recipient of Ambrose's unforgivable stupidity, made his own costly late-race mistake just over one month earlier. That was when four-time defending Cup Series champion Jimmie Johnson inexplicably got caught speeding on pit road while leading the Autism Speaks 400 at Dover. So, hey, this stuff happens even to the best of them.

But it's one thing when the four-time defending champ, already winner of three previous races this season and a total of 50 in his nine-year career, gets caught speeding on pit road. It's quite another when it's a guy like Ambrose, hungering for the first win of his fledgling Cup career now in its second full season.

Plus others have frequently been caught speeding on pit road -- including Juan Montoya, who cost himself a win at Indianapolis last season when he was guilty of the infraction on a late stop after earlier running away from the field on the track.

Those types of mistakes, while self-inflicted and every bit as painful, pale in comparison to Ambrose's apparent decision to attempt to save fuel when it might not even have been necessary. (His crew chief, Frank Kerr, insisted following the race that there was a need to save gas at the time -- but the No. 47 team apparently was worried needlessly about the possibility of multiple green-white-checkered finishes that never came).

Vegemite, anyone?

Anyone who has ever met Ambrose and spent even a little bit of time with him comes away with a warm feeling toward the friendly Australian.

Roughly 15 months ago, yours truly visited Ambrose in his hauler to talk about a variety of topics. Before long, Ambrose was discussing his love of Vegemite, the mysterious, dark brown gunk that Aussies spread on everything from English muffins in the morning to sandwiches at lunch to who knows what else at dinner.

Soon enough Ambrose whipped out a jar and pulled out a toaster, offering to give his surprised visitor a taste. As the driver continued to answer questions, he proceeded to slather butter and Vegemite on the toasted English muffin -- anxious to sell a little of his native culture to the ugly American.

It was a simple yet magnanimous gesture on Ambrose's part, immediately endearing him to someone who had, moments before, hardly known the guy.

That made watching Sunday's embarrassing and costly gaffe more difficult. Ambrose is one of the good guys in the garage, and he works hard at his craft. The No. 47 Toyota he drives for JTG/Daugherty Racing has been fast at most tracks this season, yet the team lacks the results to show for it because of other issues, some of the driver's own doing but most of them not.

Ambrose knew that the 1.99-mile road course at Sonoma offered one of his best chances to bag his first Sprint Cup win this season. He did everything he needed to do -- as did his team -- to get in position to accomplish it.

Then he blew it.

The good news

By now the details of how Ambrose flipped the kill switch on his car and stalled out going up the Turn 2 hill on Lap 104 of Sunday's race in the misguided attempt to save fuel have been ingrained in NASCAR racing lore. No one, Ambrose included, will soon be able to forget it.

Those who believe he should have been placed back in the lead after his car stopped on the track are sadly mistaken. While it could be argued that NASCAR sometimes has seemed to bend the rules one way or the other, depending on the situation, this one was crystal clear. The car in the lead during a caution period must maintain "reasonable speed" behind the pace car.

Maybe Greg Biffle did that at Kansas in 2007 and maybe he didn't, but his car never stopped moving. Maybe Dale Earnhardt Jr. did that in his last victory at Michigan two years ago and maybe he didn't, but his car never stopped moving. And in those cases, by definition of the rule, it was left up to NASCAR officials to determine what constituted "reasonable speed." They made their ruling and everyone else was left to live with it.

Ambrose's car ground to a halt and was passed by six other machines before he could get it re-fired. End of story. End of his chances to win. There can be no credible debate about it.

To Ambrose's credit, after spending some time to cool down afterward, he emerged from his hauler to at least spend a few minutes trying to explain himself to the media. Lesser men would have dodged the scene altogether.

Where he goes from here is up to him. This is the second road race he has choked away in two years, having had a Nationwide victory in the bag at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal one year ago until he botched the final turn and handed the win to Carl Edwards.

Those are the facts. But another fact is that there is one more road course remaining on the schedule this year, and it could be argued that no one has consistently driven better on them in the past two years than Ambrose. He also has shown improvement on NASCAR's other styles of tracks, even if, at times, his finishes haven't reflected it.

They say you learn from your mistakes. Ambrose needs to now trust that it is true.

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer.
 
And this says it all. Especially to the ones that are trying to resurrect those two situations, and somehow tie them into what Ambrose did.

Maybe Greg Biffle did that at Kansas in 2007 and maybe he didn't, but his car never stopped moving. Maybe Dale Earnhardt Jr. did that in his last victory at Michigan two years ago and maybe he didn't, but his car never stopped moving. And in those cases, by definition of the rule, it was left up to NASCAR officials to determine what constituted "reasonable speed." They made their ruling and everyone else was left to live with it.
 
Spot Back

Should NASCAR give the spot back?

It depends who the driver and team owner is.
 
I'm not saying it shouldn't be I just think the whole idea there is stupid


Well there is really no reason for a Nascar driver to stop on the track(other than a crash or red flag). Think about it, they have a radio to talk with their crew, and you aren't gonna see a Nascar official walk out onto the track and stop a car like they do at a local short track. Unless that driver is having some sort of medical emergency I can't think of any reason to stop.
 
Maybe Dale Earnhardt Jr. did that in his last victory at Michigan two years ago and maybe he didn't, but his car never stopped moving. And in those cases, by definition of the rule, it was left up to NASCAR officials to determine what constituted "reasonable speed." They made their ruling and everyone else was left to live with it.

What does NASCAR's rules say about passing the pace car? It was left up to NASCAR officials to determine what constituted a winner.

Just saying....
 
The irony is -- anyone remember Montreal 2007 when Marcos Ambrose spun Robby Gordon and Robby was black flagged for not maintaining pace speed? This time, Robby finishes 2nd and Ambrose gets the short end of the stick.

Still pissed Jimmie won this race.
 
The irony is -- anyone remember Montreal 2007 when Marcos Ambrose spun Robby Gordon and Robby was black flagged for not maintaining pace speed? This time, Robby finishes 2nd and Ambrose gets the short end of the stick.

Still pissed Jimmie won this race.

I forgot about that one. Robby should of won that race & not Harvick.

As a flagman at a racertrack told me "It just depends on who you are"
 
It reminds me more of the time that Mark Martin ( thinking the race was over),pulled into the pits with one lap remaining,while he was leading the race. Bonehead move . But Nascar didn't give him the spot back.
 
It reminds me more of the time that Mark Martin ( thinking the race was over),pulled into the pits with one lap remaining,while he was leading the race. Bonehead move . But Nascar didn't give him the spot back.

but Ambrose was still on the track he didn't pit
 
And his car was a different color. So what. Both were sad mistakes.
 
It reminds me more of the time that Mark Martin ( thinking the race was over),pulled into the pits with one lap remaining,while he was leading the race. Bonehead move . But Nascar didn't give him the spot back.

not even one lap....1/2 a straightaway..That was a REAL BONEHEAD MOVE
 
So NASCAR does the right thing this time, and people *****. Granted, they were wrong in not penalizing Jr for passing the pace car in 08, so since they made the wrong call then, they should've made the wrong call now? Face it, YOU CAN'T STOP ON THE TRACK DURING A YELLOW. Dumb move, and Ambrose paid the price.

And as far as Biffle's running out of gas, that was purely a judgement call. And it seems people were split down the middle. Some people said Biff shouldn't have won, some people said 2nd and 3rd should have been penalized for passing the leader under yellow. In that situation, it was completely situational, and completly up to judgement about what maintaining a resonable speed is. He didn't stop, that's for sure.

And lastly, as for Gordon's deal after getting spun, he went whipping through the field while everyone else was rolling at caution speed.
 
Honestly, if Jimmie had been leading and stopped and Ambrose inherited the win because of it, how many people would be saying Jimmie should get his spot back?

Reminds me of the 2007 Daytona 500 when Harvick edged Martin and everyone said the caution should've come out (pretty much, only because it was Mark Martin).

If JJ had stopped on course, and Ambrose inherited the lead (and the win) because of it, no debate about it. If Mark Martin wins the 2007 Daytona 500 passing Harvick on the last lap while the whole field wrecks behind them, no debate about it.
 
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