Should the wining car be stripped of the win if illegal?

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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Not to be confused with the Kenseth penalty thread. This is just a general question. If the wining car is deemed illegal shouldn't it be disqualified? I think so. Why should it get the win?
 
Nascar has always said that they won't take away a win on a technicality,after the race is over . When the fans leave the racetrack , they saw the finish , they saw the win . I think most sports follow that principle . The officials play a big enough part in sports now without rewriting history weeks afters the event . Actually ,there are a couple of races this year that ruined my pool points ,that I would like to see rewritten.;)
 
I know what they say but things change in this sport. I'm thinking that this should be another one.
 
Maybe take away the win if it's a large performance advantage where intent is obvious.
 
NASCAR has never taken away a win????? I can name several drivers that kept the trophy but lost more points than the race was worth. The 20 team lost 50 points and the bonus win.

I guess you can call it whatever makes you feel good... ;)
 
I'm torn on this one, dpk. I like knowing who won when the race is over, yet I can see the other side, too. If something on the car is so out of whack that the field wasn't level, it isn't fair.

But, in the end --- let the win stand.
 
Taking away a win would be the dumbest thing Nascar ever did. And that's saying something.

People would stop going to the track if they had to go home and wait a few days to see if the guy who won really won.
 
If a car fails post race inspection it should be DQ'd, no points, no money, and if the winner they return the trophy.
Prohibited from using VL photo's in sponsor advertising too.
I realize the rules are chicken**** but illegal is like being pregnant, there's no in between, no just a little bit. You are or you aren't plain and simple.
Why should a cheater be rewarded for cheating?
 
So when does Vegas pay off it's betters ? How long do they wait . Could Nascar place a bet and then change the winner ? Interesting.
 
Yes! Is Johnny Beauchamp credited with the 1949 Daytona 500 win? I don't agree with that, because I don't think 2nd place should be given a win and I think there has to be a winner. The precedent was set in the first Daytona 500. However clearly NASCAR has shown it doesn't matter what they did before to determine what they'll do now but that's my opinion.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Not to be confused with the Kenseth penalty thread. This is just a general question. If the wining car is deemed illegal shouldn't it be disqualified? I think so. Why should it get the win?
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No it shouldn't as the fact that is was illegal doesn't mean that it wouldn't have won anyway.
 
What was the last time NASCAR revoked a win? I want to say it was like Ricky Rudd at Riverside in like 1991 or 1990. I wanna say he spun out Ernie Irvine on the last lap. I was pretty young at the time and can barely remember. Anybody remember what I'm taking about? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Edit: Okay, I looked it up.

I forgot about Regan Smith passing Stewart under the yellow line at Talladega in 2008. That was the last time they've revoked a win in the record books.

Time I was talking about was at Sonoma in 1991. Ricky Rudd spins Davey Allison to win, and NASCAR awards Allison the official win.
 
They basically took away Kenseth's win.Fining him 50 points is more than he got for the win and didn't they take away his Chase bonus points?
 
NASCAR must leave the win intact. If ....... a team has obviously broken the rules beyond logical question it was intentional, the penalty must be severe enough to insure it does not happen again. No team, driver or, sponsor is to big to control NASCAR decisions (although many suspect they do) but take away the win? NO! Strip everything else; points, trophy, photo rights, but not the win. Put a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious asterisk next to the winners name in the record book along with sub-titles and reference information.
 
mike honcho said:
They basically took away Kenseth's win.Fining him 50 points is more than he got for the win and didn't they take away his Chase bonus points?
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Yes.

Driver Matt Kenseth has lost 50 championship driver points; the Coors Light Pole award from April 19 at Kansas Speedway will not be allowed for eligibility into the 2014 Sprint Unlimited; the first place finish from April 21 at Kansas Speedway will not earn bonus points toward the accumulated aggregate driver points total after the completion of the first 26 events of the current season and will not be credited towards the eligibility for a driver Wild Card position.
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Whizzer said:
NASCAR must leave the win intact. If ....... a team has obviously broken the rules beyond logical question it was intentional, the penalty must be severe enough to insure it does not happen again. No team, driver or, sponsor is to big to control NASCAR decisions (although many suspect they do) but take away the win? NO! Strip everything else; points, trophy, photo rights, but not the win. Put a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious asterisk next to the winners name in the record book along with sub-titles and reference information.
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How about this.

Kansas NASCAR Sprint Cup winner: CHEATER >>>> Matt Kenseth
 
It looks like they essentially did. And I think that's enough. No need to completely vacate it in the record books.
 
The part was illegal. The rules are clearly posted and the engine failed post race inspection. It is been the same for years. DO NOT mess with the engine, tires or fuel.

The 20 team got spanked big time and they know it. The win is meaningless at this point.
 
Smoke14 said:
The part was illegal. The rules are clearly posted and the engine failed post race inspection. It is been the same for years. DO NOT mess with the engine, tires or fuel.

The 20 team got spanked big time and they know it. The win is meaningless at this point.
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Plus now after his owners license being suspended for 6 weeks Joe Gibbs is screwed out of an owners championship for the 20 and the 18.
 
Messing with and making a dumb mistake that clearly gave no advantage at all are 2 different things. IMO, nail TRD hard for being so dumb and sloppy, but don't penalize the team that got NO ADVANTAGE at all. nascar is acting so blindly, they are shooting themselves.
 
FenderBumper said:
Messing with and making a dumb mistake that clearly gave no advantage at all are 2 different things. IMO, nail TRD hard for being so dumb and sloppy, but don't penalize the team that got NO ADVANTAGE at all. nascar is acting so blindly, they are shooting themselves.
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They won't penalize TRD. Maybe in manufacturer points but that reflects driver points so they lose there too. They aren't the ones on track though..
 
FenderBumper said:
Messing with and making a dumb mistake that clearly gave no advantage at all are 2 different things. IMO, nail TRD hard for being so dumb and sloppy, but don't penalize the team that got NO ADVANTAGE at all. nascar is acting so blindly, they are shooting themselves.
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How??? What could NASCAR do to TRD to penalize them?
 
Smoke14 said:
How??? What could NASCAR do to TRD to penalize them?
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Huh? Fine them 200K and ban their engines if they don't pay. Then they could hit JGR with a small warning penalty before sinking an entire team over 2.7 grams. If they got caught with 2.7 grams of coke they would get off easier.
 
Bob Pockrass‏@bobpockrass36s
Why is possible freezing owner pts 6 races a big deal? Season-end bonus fund approx $13M to top-25 in owner pts; top spot more than $2.35M

This 2.7 gram penalty will end up costing JGR over $1 million. How freaking stupid is that?
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'm torn on this one, dpk. I like knowing who won when the race is over, yet I can see the other side, too. If something on the car is so out of whack that the field wasn't level, it isn't fair.

But, in the end --- let the win stand.
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same
 
I think that is why the penalty's post race are so stiff on motors, tires and fuel, the win means little compared to the penalty in the more severe violation area cases. This has been going on long before Toyota, Gibbs, or Kenseth ever touched a race car. Owner points and fines are what they do and you go to the next track..or not.
 
Smoke14 said:
The part was illegal. The rules are clearly posted and the engine failed post race inspection. It is been the same for years. DO NOT mess with the engine, tires or fuel.

The 20 team got spanked big time and they know it. The win is meaningless at this point.
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How can one say the win is meaningless? Do you know how the wildcard works for the chase?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm guessing that TRD is already going to step up to the plate and pay any fines.
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I'm guessing they will find the manpower to weigh and mic their stuff, they definitely have proven that they have a history of engine problems. If they aren't blowing up, they aren't inside specs.
 
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