Should the wining car be stripped of the win if illegal?

So now there are suggestions relegating fines and penalties to engine manufacturers. Like in any business, the top dog, in this case Joe Gibbs, is responsible to NASCAR.
Joe Gibbs uses engines supplied by TRD and accepts responsibility for their legality. If there is a problem with legality, the car owner then goes after TRD. It is not NASCARs place to punish TRD.
 
I've only seen NASCAR take away a win once. Ricky Rudd spun out Davey Allison on a hairpin corner at a road race - it was blatant. They took care of that immediately by relegating Rudd back several positions. I think NASCAR has the philosophy that hose who attend a race should know the outcome of the race at the end of the race. Penalties are handed out later during the week. I've never liked hearing about F1 stewards changing the race outcome well after the race was over.

It is a tough call to revise history after the fact but I think an illegal car should be disqualified and in this case the win should taken away as well.
 
Nascar took about everything, but a "1" in the win column, and the trophy. Good enough for me. Joe had better put a foot up in J.D's a$$. and be having a long talk with Toyota. Who knows if Toyota is going to come to the party and pay for their numerous engine building mistakes. If I were Joe I would break out the scales and the micrometers, if you have a supplier like that, who needs enemies. Blowing up are big problems that cost money, but an engine not to specifications is huge. I would fix it or switch to a reliable supplier. Kyle Bush blew up two of their engines in his truck. I don't know about you, but if I was paying good money for this equipment, I would be looking at other options right now.
 
I think, keep the win because it would be too complicated to take it away but sort of like the latest incident take all of the benefits and peripherals of the win away and drop the hammer on them.
 
didn't tha king get caught w/ illegal motors....twice ....tryin ta get ta 200 wins..........an they never took those wins away . ????
 
I think the wins in the record books matter too, though. Look at the whole thing between Darrell Waltrip and Davey Allison over Allison's wins. Could matter one day when Kenseth is trying to get into the HOF.
 
KevinWI said:
What was the last time NASCAR revoked a win? I want to say it was like Ricky Rudd at Riverside in like 1991 or 1990. I wanna say he spun out Ernie Irvine on the last lap. I was pretty young at the time and can barely remember. Anybody remember what I'm taking about? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Edit: Okay, I looked it up.

I forgot about Regan Smith passing Stewart under the yellow line at Talladega in 2008. That was the last time they've revoked a win in the record books.

Time I was talking about was at Sonoma in 1991. Ricky Rudd spins Davey Allison to win, and NASCAR awards Allison the official win.
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That "win" Smith was never awarded. When NASCAR announced the win they gave it to Stewart.
 
KevinWI said:
But Regan crossed the finish line first.
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It doesn't matter who crossed the line first. Nascar couldn't strip him of the win because he never officially won the race to start with.
 
#17D500winner said:
No, we're not. He couldn't have something taken from him which he never had.
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*Original post suspended by Mike Helton*

I'd consider him the unofficial winner for a few seconds until the penalty came down from NASCAR. Like I said, semantics.
 
KevinWI said:
Whatever, a**hole. He crossed the finish line first, for about 30 seconds ESPN had him as the winner on the screen. I just watched the archive on YouTube.

They did the same thing in 1991. Ricky Rudd spun Allison and then finished 1st, but NASCAR awarded Allison the win. yet, but 1991 Sonoma and 2008 fall Talladega are considered times when NASCAR striped drives of wins.
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ESPN doesn't decide who wins the race but if you need to resort childish name calling, the point is yours. Have a great weekend.
 
Yes, young Kevin answered his question a few posts back in #55, but somehow he forgot in post #56..bwaaaaa Timing and scoring had him number one..UNofficial winner. Rule Book: improving your position by passing under the yellow line at Daytona..nope, unless you are pushed under the line. They tried to say Tony pushed him under there, but that didn't happen.
 
KevinWI said:
edits made and apologies sent
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your a good dude for a Kenseth fan. :) I can see you Toyota guys and Gibbs and more importantly Kenseth fans being jacked up for sure. You know what runs downhill. Toyota does the screwing up, they are new, they have to learn just like the other two manufactures have had to learn in years past. Nascar has to bust somebody. Nascar has ruined some underfunded race car teams/drivers in the past for engines penalties. They can't afford to have a car anymore, and have had to get jobs to pay the fines. Look on the bright side, Kenseth is not going away, and neither is Toyota or Gibbs Racing, it is early in the season, so you never know how it will pan out. I for one is going to be pulling for Matt and crew and wouldn't it be something if they?
 
StandOnIt said:
your a good dude for a Kenseth fan. :) I can see you Toyota guys and Gibbs and more importantly Kenseth fans being jacked up for sure. You know what runs downhill. Toyota does the screwing up, they are new, they have to learn just like the other two manufactures have had to learn in years past. Nascar has to bust somebody. Nascar has ruined some underfunded race car teams/drivers in the past for engines penalties. They can't afford to have a car anymore, and have had to get jobs to pay the fines. Look on the bright side, Kenseth is not going away, and neither is Toyota or Gibbs Racing, it is early in the season, so you never know how it will pan out. I for one is going to be pulling for Matt and crew and wouldn't it be something if they?
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Hahaha, I wouldn't say I'm a Kenseth fan specifically. I have like 15 guys I cheer for, 5 guys I hate, and 20 guys I don't care about.

But, I am a Kenseth fan and I do think the penalty was excessive. But, I can see NASCAR's side of it. Between this and the Penske penalties last week, from their POV, they must be looking at a major escalation of cheating in the sport.
 
KevinWI said:
Hahaha, I wouldn't say I'm a Kenseth fan specifically. I have like 15 guys I cheer for, 5 guys I hate, and 20 guys I don't care about.

But, I am a Kenseth fan and I do think the penalty was excessive. But, I can see NASCAR's side of it. Between this and the Penske penalties last week, from their POV, they must be looking at a major escalation of cheating in the sport.
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yeah I hear ya. Here is something nobody talks about. How much time and money it costs Nascar to try to keep a level racing playing field...the other side of the story. I know I don't want to be watching a race and every time I see a car out front, I think..their cheating, the best cheater wins. So when I see that even though this didn't make any difference competition wise, Nascar has rules and you have to stay inside those, so it make everyone involved pay attention..this could happen to you, so be careful what you do.
 
Having stripped Kenseth and team of the points, along with the astronomical fines that were handed out, he and the team have essentially been stripped of the win, in everything but the record book. And, NASCAR fans have very long memories, so even that will be always called into question.
 
To answer the question, YES! Every racing series I've ever been apart of takes the win, money and points for the race and most make you start last for the next races. They should take the position, points and money and stop with these ridiculous fines and suspensions.
 
Yes... mostly because of who was second
 
Absolutely not. If NASCAR starts taking away wins, it would further deplete NASCAR's already somewhat declining credibility. Kenseth essentially had his win at Kansas stripped from him and then some. Sure, he won and is still listed as the winner, but he would actually be higher in the standings right now had he skipped Kansas altogether. However, had the win been officially stripped and handed to an HMS driver (Kasey Kahne), the black helicopters and tin foil hats would REALLY come out.
 
you got that right. One of the reasons I don't watch very much stick and ball sports , is because there is so much interference by the officiating
 
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