Snowball Derby 2019

SpeedPagan

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Anyone know where I can get the replay of the Snowball Derby?
 

aunty dive

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Does anyone make tungsten lug nuts?

For weigh-in. The ones on the car are titanium.
 

Greg

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I see the sensitive types are out on Twitter bemoaning that this makes the race a joke. Actually it's the opposite. A marquee event without serious technical standards and inspection would be the joke. This is the definition of sporting credibility. The people who want a nice safe entertainment show where they always "know the ending" when the credits roll can find that in plenty of places.

I'm not big on pavement late model racing, but it's because the culture is one that seems to encourage the drivers to drive them like bumper cars.

Congrats to Braden. He also had a tough weekend, started near the back, and spun out late in the race. Plenty of Cinderella underdog glory there. And he was legal!
Outstanding post.
 

Greg

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Does anyone make tungsten lug nuts?

For weigh-in. The ones on the car are titanium.
Worth a shot to win Cup stage points. Use Titanium or light weight lugs to enhance speed for the no tech stages. Accumulate enough season long bonus points to enable qualifying for the final four finale.

Use the Tungsten lugs on the final stop to reset the car back to minimum weight. It will be more difficult to win with the restored weight but on the other hand a late race caution during the last 25 miles or so is less concerned about right side tire wear. If there are no late race cautions you will still have the Tungsten advantage to help with gapping the competition during the first green cycle of the last stage.

(They probably check the lugs too, well at least it is worth an internet post.....)
 

Mispeedway15

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Gives me new respect for NASCAR as a whole. Obviously growing up in the north it’s all about sprint cars, but I’m shocked how much of a damn mess the racing and rules are in this form of racing.

I mean Holy Toledo this stuff is ridiculous, they race like video games and everything is a DQ. Lol thank god the Chili Bowl is coming soon
 

Spotter22

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Gives me new respect for NASCAR as a whole. Obviously growing up in the north it’s all about sprint cars, but I’m shocked how much of a damn mess the racing and rules are in this form of racing.

I mean Holy Toledo this stuff is ridiculous, they race like video games and everything is a DQ. Lol thank god the Chili Bowl is coming soon
The Big races in late models seem to always end up in a crash fest because you have Veterans running against youngsters and they all are wanting to make a name for themselves but just make stupid decisions. As a whole most tour races dont have disqualifications, certainly not as many as the Derby because everyone wants to win that one so badly they come dangerously close to being over the tolerance or get caught just flat out cheating when they think they are smarter then the tech man. But in this case I heard the tech man got a tip from a former disgruntled supplier of a certain package on the car.
 

aunty dive

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The Big races in late models seem to always end up in a crash fest because you have Veterans running against youngsters and they all are wanting to make a name for themselves but just make stupid decisions. As a whole most tour races dont have disqualifications, certainly not as many as the Derby because everyone wants to win that one so badly they come dangerously close to being over the tolerance or get caught just flat out cheating when they think they are smarter then the tech man. But in this case I heard the tech man got a tip from a former disgruntled supplier of a certain package on the car.
You’re obviously feeling better.

I’m happy about that.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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I'm not upset about the DQ myself, more about how it all went down.

Tech inspectors in this region generally would have let teams know that there was a problem with a certain manufacturer's parts and given teams an opportunity to fix it. But it's the Snowball Derby and disqualifying winners is part of the show.

Manufacturer politics do nothing but hurt the racers and drive costs up. Bad for the sport.
 

Spotter22

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I'm not upset about the DQ myself, more about how it all went down.

Tech inspectors in this region generally would have let teams know that there was a problem with a certain manufacturer's parts and given teams an opportunity to fix it. But it's the Snowball Derby and disqualifying winners is part of the show.

Manufacturer politics do nothing but hurt the racers and drive costs up. Bad for the sport.
If what is circulating is true, the former supplier just cut his own throat. If I was using his stuff I'd sell it right now. Cant trust him. Ever
 

AndyMarquisLive

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If what is circulating is true, the former supplier just cut his own throat. If I was using his stuff I'd sell it right now. Cant trust him. Ever
If what is circulating is true, I have a serious problem with the track withholding information from teams for theater.

I don't think Ricky Brooks shows favoritism as some are claiming, but it's not a good look when the techman is such a big part of "The Show." Martinsville tech is rigorous and people have failed post-qualifying tech, but that aspect of things is always handled professionally. And I've been to races where the tech inspector has warned teams about something specific when it's brought to their attention. I've also seen tech officials tell drivers to "make sure they fix that before the race" or something.
 

Greg

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If what is circulating is true, the former supplier just cut his own throat. If I was using his stuff I'd sell it right now. Cant trust him. Ever
If what is circulating is true, I have a serious problem with the track withholding information from teams for theater.

I don't think Ricky Brooks shows favoritism as some are claiming, but it's not a good look when the techman is such a big part of "The Show." Martinsville tech is rigorous and people have failed post-qualifying tech, but that aspect of things is always handled professionally. And I've been to races where the tech inspector has warned teams about something specific when it's brought to their attention. I've also seen tech officials tell drivers to "make sure they fix that before the race" or something.
https://www.shorttrackscene.com/super-late-models/snowball-derby/the-reason-stephen-nasse-was-disqualified-from-his-snowball-derby-win/

I am not much for conspiracies but it apparently is true.
The former supplier did not deny the accusation.

Seems damning enough to me.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Greg

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“We left PFC Brakes because they weren’t willing to help us and were playing favorites. The first thing tech asked us to do is remove the brakes because they had a ‘tip’ from their major supporter at PFC Brakes, Chris Dilbeck. In our brake system there was a small titanium cap which does not enhance performance at all.”

In a statement released on Sunday night, Dilbeck didn’t deny the allegation....
 

StandOnIt

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“We left PFC Brakes because they weren’t willing to help us and were playing favorites. The first thing tech asked us to do is remove the brakes because they had a ‘tip’ from their major supporter at PFC Brakes, Chris Dilbeck. In our brake system there was a small titanium cap which does not enhance performance at all.”

In a statement released on Sunday night, Dilbeck didn’t deny the allegation....
it's always interesting reading what the guy who got caught says. If it doesn't enhance performance, why the hell is it made out of one of the most expensive metals there is. You insult your fans with that B.S.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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it's always interesting reading what the guy who got caught says. If it doesn't enhance performance, why the hell is it made out of one of the most expensive metals there is. You insult your fans with that B.S.
If it was such a performance advantage, why did Stephen Nasse need a provisional to make the field?
 

AndyMarquisLive

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This all reads like obfuscation and diversion. Who tipped off Brooks, how much of an advantage the illegal part provides, etc. Those aren't the deciding factors. Rules are either enforced, or they aren't rules.
As someone who's been on the management side of a racetrack, a tech inspector checking something because he got a text from an event sponsor is a big "no-no."

I've been in meetings over whether to suspend a driver, because of sponsor pressure, before.

If what Stephen Nasse is alleging is true, and all indications are that it is, that's a problem.
 

StandOnIt

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As someone who's been on the management side of a racetrack, a tech inspector checking something because he got a text from an event sponsor is a big "no-no."

I've been in meetings over whether to suspend a driver, because of sponsor pressure, before.

If what Stephen Nasse is alleging is true, and all indications are that it is, that's a problem.
B.S.
 

gnomesayin

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As someone who's been on the management side of a racetrack, a tech inspector checking something because he got a text from an event sponsor is a big "no-no."

I've been in meetings over whether to suspend a driver, because of sponsor pressure, before.

If what Stephen Nasse is alleging is true, and all indications are that it is, that's a problem.
In a broad sense, I would agree that sponsor influence on the officiating process is problematic. However, this is still ultimately a diversionary tactic and side issue, as the rules infraction is clear and provides the basis for disqualification regardless of where the info came from.

The truth of an accusation doesn't ride on the character of the accuser.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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In a broad sense, I would agree that sponsor influence on the officiating process is problematic. However, this is still ultimately a diversionary tactic and side issue, as the rules infraction is clear and provides the basis for disqualification regardless of where the info came from.

The truth of an accusation doesn't ride on the character of the accuser.
Trust me, that sponsor influence is a bigger issue than you think.

"Hey, tech man, my competitors use titanium caps, so if Stephen Nasse (or any other driver who runs those brakes) comes through tech, check that."

That's a huge problem. And it's this type of manufacturer politics that's driving costs up and killing the sport.
 

StandOnIt

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Trust me, that sponsor influence is a bigger issue than you think.

"Hey, tech man, my competitors use titanium caps, so if Stephen Nasse (or any other driver who runs those brakes) comes through tech, check that."

That's a huge problem. And it's this type of manufacturer politics that's driving costs up and killing the sport.
B.S. they call it the room of doom for a reason. They have D.Q.'d bigger names and more heavily sponsored drivers than this one. They have rules and they follow them, it's just that simple
 

Spotter22

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As someone who's been on the management side of a racetrack, a tech inspector checking something because he got a text from an event sponsor is a big "no-no."

I've been in meetings over whether to suspend a driver, because of sponsor pressure, before.

If what Stephen Nasse is alleging is true, and all indications are that it is, that's a problem.
What about NASCAR getting a picture from redditt? Is that a no no? What about not having titanium caps on the car to begin with? Place the blame where it should be.
 

Spotter22

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Trust me, that sponsor influence is a bigger issue than you think.

"Hey, tech man, my competitors use titanium caps, so if Stephen Nasse (or any other driver who runs those brakes) comes through tech, check that."

That's a huge problem. And it's this type of manufacturer politics that's driving costs up and killing the sport.
lol. You dont think competitors talk to inspectors and rat others out? Every single week
 

AndyMarquisLive

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lol. You dont think competitors talk to inspectors and rat others out? Every single week
Chris Dillbeck should have sent that text to another driver and had a driver take that to Ricky Brooks. The sponsor interference and Brooks withholding information is the problem here, not the DQ.

I'm well aware of how this works.
 

Greg

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https://www.shorttrackscene.com/super-late-models/snowball-derby/the-reason-stephen-nasse-was-disqualified-from-his-snowball-derby-win/

I am not much for conspiracies but it apparently is true.
The former supplier did not deny the accusation.

Seems damning enough to me.
“We left PFC Brakes because they weren’t willing to help us and were playing favorites. The first thing tech asked us to do is remove the brakes because they had a ‘tip’ from their major supporter at PFC Brakes, Chris Dilbeck. In our brake system there was a small titanium cap which does not enhance performance at all.”

In a statement released on Sunday night, Dilbeck didn’t deny the allegation....
For a moment well for more than a few moments I got caught up in the excuses. And I do sympathize with Nasse the biggest win of his career waa at stake. I also believe in the real world idea that anything passes through tech is acceptable. If people can afford it they will put anything on the car to win and that is the competition you have to beat.

But at the end of the day it is the entries responsibility to ensure they are legal, and Nasse obviously had to know about the reputation of Brooks in advance and the need to be prepared.

Nasse could have also asked Brembo in advance if he was running titanium parts. I do not think it would have been a secret, most venders will brag about using superior materials rather than hide it. It might even be posted on their website pdf brochures
I am also assuming he could have also took a spare caliper and the (titanium)caps to Brooks in advance for preapproval to be safe.
I know nothing about Nasse other than what I have read but it is very possible that he knew all of the above prior to the race and simply took the risk.

None of the blame really matters in the end, the rules were clear and if you get caught you get DQ'd.

Screenshot_20191211-064113_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20191211-064043_Chrome.jpg
 

Spotter22

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For a moment well for more than a few moments I got caught up in the excuses. And I do sympathize with Nasse the biggest win of his career waa at stake. I also believe in the real world idea that anything passes through tech is acceptable. If people can afford it they will put anything on the car to win and that is the competition you have to beat.

But at the end of the day it is the entries responsibility to ensure they are legal, and Nasse obviously had to know about the reputation of Brooks in advance and the need to be prepared.

Nasse could have also asked Brembo in advance if he was running titanium parts. I do not think it would have been a secret, most venders will brag about using superior materials rather than hide it. It might even be posted on their website pdf brochures
I am also assuming he could have also took a spare caliper and the (titanium)caps to Brooks in advance for preapproval to be safe.
I know nothing about Nasse other than what I have read but it is very possible that he knew all of the above prior to the race and simply took the risk.

None of the blame really matters in the end, the rules were clear and if you get caught you get DQ'd.

View attachment 42691 View attachment 42692
End thread
 

Greg

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A long post maybe self-indulgent, but stuff I experienced and really believe.

In the end the Brooks Snowball Derby tech stories always leave me respecting Brooks and Five Flags Speedway people even more than before.
I have never wanted or been a part of race promoting. It is too easy to doubt them and blame them and make it look like they are out to get you. They are the perfect excuse.

I talked recently with an old racing friend that I grew up with, we even attended elementary school together. Our conversation almost immediately went back to Greenville Pickens Speedway in the 1970s.
The thing we almost immediately agreed upon was respect for the way the Blackwell's ran the track. But we would have never admitted that back in the day.

The first conversations I ever heard about the track was the disrespect and accusations of favoritism. Then I started hearing the same about Nascar in general. Almost everywhere I went there would be some old fart or uncle whining about how they don't do things right, and how they protect their chosen drivers. Even friends my own age would repeat the claims our elders were teaching us about the injustices.

The conversation could almost always be summarized as: I was a kid that loved racing, I had to be at the track on Saturday nights, and in front of the MRN radio on Sunday. While the older crowd would be responding with something like that's good kid but one day you will learn that it is ran by a bunch of cheaters, and one day you will learn not to care about it, and to enjoy our misery.
I even got use to it to from the drivers and learned to expect it, the domninate driver is the only guy that does not believe he got screwed over. It was, and it is the same tune everywhere I go only with new addresses and people.

The crying on the internet is not a new thing. It has always been a crying culture, the internet just gave it a great amplifier, the same old stories empowered by more noise.

It takes a lot of courage to run races with integrity and doing the right thing will often be disrespected at the time.
 

Spotter22

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A long post maybe self-indulgent, but stuff I experienced and really believe.

In the end the Brooks Snowball Derby tech stories always leave me respecting Brooks and Five Flags Speedway people even more than before.
I have never wanted or been a part of race promoting. It is too easy to doubt them and blame them and make it look like they are out to get you. They are the perfect excuse.

I talked recently with an old racing friend that I grew up with, we even attended elementary school together. Our conversation almost immediately went back to Greenville Pickens Speedway in the 1970s.
The thing we almost immediately agreed upon was respect for the way the Blackwell's ran the track. But we would have never admitted that back in the day.

The first conversations I ever heard about the track was the disrespect and accusations of favoritism. Then I started hearing the same about Nascar in general. Almost everywhere I went there would be some old fart or uncle whining about how they don't do things right, and how they protect their chosen drivers. Even friends my own age would repeat the claims our elders were teaching us about the injustices.

The conversation could almost always be summarized as: I was a kid that loved racing, I had to be at the track on Saturday nights, and in front of the MRN radio on Sunday. While the older crowd would be responding with something like that's good kid but one day you will learn that it is ran by a bunch of cheaters, and one day you will learn not to care about it, and to enjoy our misery.
I even got use to it to from the drivers and learned to expect it, the domninate driver is the only guy that does not believe he got screwed over. It was, and it is the same tune everywhere I go only with new addresses and people.

The crying on the internet is not a new thing. It has always been a crying culture, the internet just gave it a great amplifier, the same old stories empowered by more noise.

It takes a lot of courage to run races with integrity and doing the right thing will often be disrespected at the time.
My friend, you are on fire.
 
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