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de7xwcc

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NASCAR lays down the law

Crew chief Chad Knaus won't be allowed back to the track until Bristol, NASCAR said Tuesday, meaning he'll miss three more races. In addition, Knaus was fined $25,000. More

no points, i can not believe it nascar has reached an all time low, hell they docked terry L. 25 points for being an innoicent bystander. folks i'm done i may listen to it on the radio if there is nothing else to do but i have watched my last race.
 
wow...they docked the 96 team 25 driver and owner points...but didnt touch the 48 teams points....thats pretty damn shocking if you ask me.

most people think that the 48's cheating was far worse than the 96...this is absurd.
 
The same thing happened with Harvick's team last year, crew chief was suspended and no points taken away.
 
This is exactly what I thought would happen. These high calibre teams will always get the better punishments overall. Oh well, such is NASCAR.
 
well remember the team had nothing to do with it...it was the crew cheif that modified the car (assumably?), while at HoFR, the team probably knew what had been done.

or theres always the age old "nascar is biased" thing...
 
I thought harvick and RCR got docked 25 points plus fines
 
Pemberton said the difference between Knaus' penalty and the Hall of Fame penalty was Labonte's car had an illegal part.

"When we lay our hands on that, that's when we generally go with points,'' he said. "In the case of [Johnson's car] it was all legal parts and pieces, the window and the jack bolt.

"It wasn't anything illegal about the pieces. They just were orchestrated in a way to alter the back of the car.''
Click to expand...
As per the article on nascar.com
 
Maybe this all has something to do with Gary Nelson resigning......
 
You get more points deducted for accidentally swearing on TV than you do for blatantly cheating up your car. WOW!!!!! What a freaking JOKE!!!

I bet for the races that Chad is gone NASCAR sets up the JUMBOTRON for teleconferencing so Chad can still communicate with the team.
 
JarrettFan said:
You get more points deducted for accidentally swearing on TV than you do for blatantly cheating up your car. WOW!!!!! What a freaking JOKE!!!


that's exactly what i thought
Click to expand...
 
Magnethead said:
well remember the team had nothing to do with it...it was the crew cheif that modified the car (assumably?), while at HoFR, the team probably knew what had been done.

or theres always the age old "nascar is biased" thing...
Click to expand...

Well apparently HOFR leases their engines from JGR, and JGR provides the carbs as well......the problem here is i truely dont think JGR and HOFR meant to break the rules....JGR has come out and appologized like crazy to HOFR about this.

where as the 48 car blately cheated....i dont think it was just the crew chief involved...the reason why the crew chief was sent home and no one else was, is simply because he's responsible for the car.

I heard a press conf last night the 48 crew chief...he was asked if they broke the rule on purpose....he said that was irrelevant question.

The 48 car should have been docked points...there's no question about that.
 
Statement from Joe Gibbs Racing Regarding Fine and Penalty Levied by NASCAR Against Hall of Fame Racing: The following is a statement from Joe Gibbs Racing president J.D. Gibbs regarding the $25,000 fine and the deduction of 25 owner and 25 driver points NASCAR levied against the #96 Hall of Fame Racing Team for having an unapproved carburetor during time trials for the Daytona 500 at Daytona (Fla.) International Speedway. Hall of Fame Racing has an engine lease program with Joe Gibbs Racing, and the unapproved carburetor came with the engine supplied to Hall of Fame Racing. "Joe Gibbs Racing provides all of the engines and carburetors for Hall of Fame Racing," said Gibbs. "We are responsible for any issues having arisen from the unapproved carburetor that was taken by NASCAR in Daytona. It is never our intention to put any unapproved parts on any of our race cars or those of our partners. We will join Hall of Fame Racing in appealing the severity of the penalty." - Joe Gibbs Racing PR
 
Of course, now that it is over, the question is irrelavant. Chad has been penalized, and NASCAR explained thier reasons for the penalties to the #48 and the #96 and why they were assessed the way they were.
A illegal part in the eyes of NASCAR has specific penalties while an attempt to "skirt" the rules using legal parts but operating in the gray area of the rule book carries a different punishment.
In a way, operating in the gray areas of the rule book benefits NASCAR as a means of tightening the rules by bringing the questionable "violation" to thier attention.
The rear window in the #48 failed to meet specifications but was determined to have legal parts with an illegal purpose, just as the shocks at Dover this past year which was the use of legal parts but skirted the gray area according to NASCAR. Creative design does not carry a point reduction penalty.
The carburetor of the #96 was, according to NASCAR, an illegal part and illegal parts are subject to point reduction penalties.
The use of legal parts to alter performance are not deemed illegal by the rule book and therefore not subject to point reduction penalties.
One can only hope NASCAR will continue to apply the rules equally once the criteria is established and the rules placed in the book make future efforts, illegal. Then the penalties become the same as those of illegal parts.
Although NASCAR makes many judgement calls that might seem biased, this time it seems they got it right.
Dissenting opinions are expected.
 
A flagrant attempt to cheat.
There was no question that Chad attempted to cheat regardless of how he was doing it.
Obviously the intent was there.
In the HOF racing teams case, intent didn't seem to be the case, at least not to JGR anyway.
Nascars call WAS consistant, I'll admit. But I think they should seriously look into intent as to whether points should be deducted in future infractions.
 
Whizzer said:
A illegal part in the eyes of NASCAR has specific penalties while an attempt to "skirt" the rules using legal parts but operating in the gray area of the rule book carries a different punishment.
In a way, operating in the gray areas of the rule book benefits NASCAR as a means of tightening the rules by bringing the questionable "violation" to thier attention.
The rear window in the #48 failed to meet specifications but was determined to have legal parts with an illegal purpose, just as the shocks at Dover this past year which was the use of legal parts but skirted the gray area according to NASCAR. Creative design does not carry a point reduction penalty.
The carburetor of the #96 was, according to NASCAR, an illegal part and illegal parts are subject to point reduction penalties.
The use of legal parts to alter performance are not deemed illegal by the rule book and therefore not subject to point reduction penalties.
One can only hope NASCAR will continue to apply the rules equally once the criteria is established and the rules placed in the book make future efforts, illegal. Then the penalties become the same as those of illegal parts.
Although NASCAR makes many judgement calls that might seem biased, this time it seems they got it right.
Dissenting opinions are expected.
Click to expand...

this is not all correct. Let me explain. the 96 team did not use any illegal parts!. They used an unapproved carb. BIG DIFFERENCE. That same carb is perfectly legit at 32 of the 36 nascar sanctioned races.

As far as the part about laying the hands on parts. They did this to KAYNE in 04
#9-Kasey Kahne Crew Chief Tommy Baldwin Talladega 10/04 25 points $25,000, unapproved spoiler modification

here are a feww others:
#16-Greg Biffle Crew Chief Doug Richert Talladega 10/04 25points $25,000 unapproved spoiler adjustment
#0-Ward Burton Crew Chief Tony Furr Atlanta 10/27/2003 25points $25,000 Unapproved carburetor modification

crew member Michael Hillman Jr. was suspended 2 races
Now wouldn't the rear window be considered an unaproved modification? they both had the same effect, take air off the spoiler.

here is a link to the past BIG nascar penalties.. scroll down the page

http://www.jayski.com/pages/penalties.htm

WHERE is the consitancy?
 
steveluvs3 said:
I thought harvick and RCR got docked 25 points plus fines
Click to expand...
He did, I was wrong. I only remembered the fine and the suspension.
 
kbmdale said:
this is not all correct. Let me explain. the 96 team did not use any illegal parts!. They used an unapproved carb. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Click to expand...

Is there really a BIG DIFFERENCE ?????

The use of the terms unapproved and illegal are defined as the same. Just as the use of the terms legal and approved are the same.
There is NO DIFFERENCE !!!!!!

The use of an unapproved (illegal) carburetor by #96 was an unapproved item at restrictor plate tracks. This point has no bearing at how many other facilities this same carburetor is legal. The fact remains it is not legal at Daytona and Talledega. It is also fact it doesn't matter whether the intent was to cheat or not to cheat. It was the use of an unapproved or illegal part (choice of words is up to reader) and in the eyes of NASCAR use of an unapproved or illegal part, receives a point reduction penalty.

Chad Knauss used NO illegal or unapproved parts to try to gain an advantage but did, in the process, skirt the gray areas of the rule book through this creativity. However, since he used no unapproved or illegal parts, he is not subject to a point penalty.
In the subsequent press interview with Knauss, he indicated finding a loophole (my word, not his) where point reduction penalties are concerned.

Since there was no unapproved part used, HMS nor any other team has been treated differently than previously penalties assessed for similar activities by crew chiefs the past three or so years.
 
Quote by Whizzer: In the subsequent press interview with Knauss, he indicated finding a loophole (my word, not his) where point reduction penalties are concerned.


So, you're saying Knauss found an "approved" way to cheat.
 
Chad Knauss recognized a technicality and used it to his advantage.
Knauss has found an "approved" way to skirt the rules which makes him very inventive but no matter how anyone tries to sugar-coat it, Chad Knauss cheats.
 
So in July, 2002 Knaus had Jimmie's car too low. 25 points and 25 grand. There were no unapproved parts involved in that incident, yet points were taken.
You're logic of unapproved parts being the difference seems flawed.
There are other cases as well.
 
Steve007 said:
So in July, 2002 Knaus had Jimmie's car too low. 25 points and 25 grand. There were no unapproved parts involved in that incident, yet points were taken.You're logic of unapproved parts being the difference seems flawed. There are other cases as well.
Click to expand...

Chad cheated by using offset mounting bolts which were considered unapproved parts.

Please cite, "there are other cases as well" that you mention in above quote.
 
May 1995, Ray E. Unapproved suspension parts. No points, 60 grand.
Oct. 2004. T Baldwin, 25 points 25 grand. Unapproved spoiler modification.

The point I'm trying to make is that points have been taken, (or not taken.) regardless if unapproved parts were involved.
 
Steve007 said:
May 1995, Ray E. Unapproved suspension parts. No points, 60 grand.
Oct. 2004. T Baldwin, 25 points 25 grand. Unapproved spoiler modification.
The point I'm trying to make is that points have been taken, (or not taken.) regardless if unapproved parts were involved.
Click to expand...

The Ray Evernham incident used as an example took place in 1995.
My apology for not being more clear in stating my opinions are based on the past three years. Thought it was mentioned in one of the posts on this thread. If we were to go back to 1995, there are numerous cheating infractions penalized inconsistently by NASCAR and even a few that were never assessed. It wasn't until three or so years ago NASCAR made it clear they intended to take points as a penalty for specific types of infractions. My contention is they have been consistent in applying these penalties.

Tommy Baldwin's fine and points reduction was for making a spoiler modification using unapproved part(s).
 
You get more points deducted for accidentally swearing on TV than you do for blatantly cheating up your car. WOW!!!!! What a freaking JOKE!!!
Click to expand...

"When language in common use in any country becomes irregular and depraved, it is followed by their ruin and degradation." —John Milton
 
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