Start times for 2017 season

Acceptance is the final step in the grieving process.

It should be pretty obvious that the only number that really matters in the present is 8.2. As in billions of dollars.
 
I don't really care what time they start if I am NOT attending the race because 9 out of 10 times I record it. But if I am attending in person the later start means leaving the track later after the race which for many reasons I don't like such as less driving time to get home and leaving the track after dark.

I think NASCAR is doing its best to keep fans from attending the race. Without stretching it, I do not see how a later start time is better for someone attending the race.
 
dave corthell said:
I don't really care what time they start if I am NOT attending the race because 9 out of 10 times I record it. But if I am attending in person the later start means leaving the track later after the race which for many reasons I don't like such as less driving time to get home and leaving the track after dark.

I think NASCAR is doing its best to keep fans from attending the race. Without stretching it, I do not see how a later start time is better for someone attending the race.
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I agree as I think later start times in the eastern time zone will impact race attenders more than those of us at home. When you factor in people needing to leave the track to get home, races where bad weather and darkness could be an issue and those requiring an extra night be spent on the road it could very well be problematic.
 
aunty dive said:
Acceptance is the final step in the grieving process.

It should be pretty obvious that the only number that really matters in the present is 8.2. As in billions of dollars.
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The dichotomy of Nascar is interesting to me as on one hand they are financially solid into the intermediate future but on the other they are hemorrhaging fans like a sinking ship loses passengers.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
The dichotomy of Nascar is interesting to me as on one hand they are financially solid into the intermediate future but on the other they are hemorrhaging fans like a sinking ship loses passengers.
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All true. I expect they and their broadcast partners / sponsors across all media are focused on the fact that the number of people who watched (by various means) all or part of the race at Indianapolis would fill the grandstands at that facility 20 + times.
 
aunty dive said:
All true. I expect they and their broadcast partners / sponsors across all media are focused on the fact that the number of people who watched (by various means) all or part of the race at Indianapolis would fill the grandstands at that facility 20 + times.
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What I need to keep foremost in my mind is that as long as Nascar, the broadcast partners and advertisers are happy there is no problem.
 
aunty dive said:
All true. I expect they and their broadcast partners / sponsors across all media are focused on the fact that the number of people who watched (by various means) all or part of the race at Indianapolis would fill the grandstands at that facility 20 + times.
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TV viewership is always going to be bigger than actual attendance when it comes to "big league sports". TV execs/professionals and corporate sponsors aren't going to be chalking that up as a "win". Their thresholds and goals for each broadcast go much deeper than a simple T.V vs live audience math equation.

The bowl system in college football faces similar challenges. The third rate bowls will live with 10-15k in a 50k seat stadium because they can mooch off of the larger bowls who produce the real money. That's basically the Truck and Xfinity Series. However, the Orange, Fiesta, Rose, Peach and Sugar Bowls have to put butts in the seats. (or conference tv contracts, ABC/ESPN will be ok with 30k for Indiana/Northwestern so long as there's 100k for Michigan/Ohio State) When they don't get a desirable matchup ticket sales slump which in turn hurts the "prestige" of the bowl. TV folks don't like when that happens. Neither do the sponsors. They want the seats packed and the fight songs blaring. Their selling the whole experience which relies heavily on the live audience. You can't have your best level of competition playing to a 1/5 full venue for what is perceived as a "marquee event".

If 40k people showed up for the Rose Bowl next year ESPN and their partners would lose their sh*t.
 
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Skoalbandit33 said:
What I need to keep foremost in my mind is that as long as Nascar, the broadcast partners and advertisers are happy there is no problem.
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Their not happy. That's why NASCAR has more tv related changes than any sport I can think of. NFL games have always been 1 pm and 4('ish) on Sunday afternoons. The Super Bowl has been around 6:30 PM ET for the last 25+ years. College football on the major networks have been 12 pm and 3:30 pm. Notre Dame games on NBC have been 2:30 for as long as I can remember. PGA Tour weekend schedule is almost always 3 pm unless it's a major (like this week). 20 years ago it was 3:30 or 4 iirc. College basketball's ESPN weeknight schedule is M-Thurs 7 and 9 pm. That goes back to the heyday of the Big East.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
TV viewership is always going to be bigger than actual attendance when it comes to "big league sports". TV execs/professionals and corporate sponsors aren't going to be chalking that up as a "win". Their thresholds and goals for each broadcast go much deeper than a simple T.V vs live audience math equation.
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I'm well aware of that. My point is that the business model has changed. The TV broadcast revenue stream to tracks is stream # 1 and it's going up next year.

The Indy broadcast was the highest-rated, most-watched broadcast in NBCSN'S history. If you don't think the people charged with the responsibility of turning that sports network into a major player in the market are chalking that up as a win, I've got news for you.

There's nothing simple about anything I post.
 
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KodiakRusty89 said:
TV viewership is always going to be bigger than actual attendance when it comes to "big league sports". TV execs/professionals and corporate sponsors aren't going to be chalking that up as a "win". Their thresholds and goals for each broadcast go much deeper than a simple T.V vs live audience math equation.

The bowl system in college football faces similar challenges. The third rate bowls will live with 10-15k in a 50k seat stadium because they can mooch off of the larger bowls who produce the real money. That's basically the Truck and Xfinity Series. However, the Orange, Fiesta, Rose, Peach and Sugar Bowls have to put butts in the seats. (or conference tv contracts, ABC/ESPN will be ok with 30k for Indiana/Northwestern so long as there's 100k for Michigan/Ohio State) When they don't get a desirable matchup ticket sales slump which in turn hurts the "prestige" of the bowl. TV folks don't like when that happens. Neither do the sponsors. They want the seats packed and the fight songs blaring. Their selling the whole experience which relies heavily on the live audience. You can't have your best level of competition playing to a 1/5 full venue for what is perceived as a "marquee event".

If 40k people showed up for the Rose Bowl next year ESPN and their partners would lose their sh*t.
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Stick and Ball Alert
The difference with college bowl games is the participating schools are responsible for the sale of a minimum number of tickets. The ones the schools can't move, they get to eat. Occasionally a school will decline a bowl invitations because it will lose too much money participating, even with conference shares.

I don't think this happens in any professional sport in the US. I don't know enough about college sports to say if this happens outside football.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Their not happy. That's why NASCAR has more tv related changes than any sport I can think of. NFL games have always been 1 pm and 4('ish) on Sunday afternoons. The Super Bowl has been around 6:30 PM ET for the last 25+ years. College football on the major networks have been 12 pm and 3:30 pm. Notre Dame games on NBC have been 2:30 for as long as I can remember. PGA Tour weekend schedule is almost always 3 pm unless it's a major (like this week). 20 years ago it was 3:30 or 4 iirc. College basketball's ESPN weeknight schedule is M-Thurs 7 and 9 pm. That goes back to the heyday of the Big East.
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Nonsense. Changes to scheduling and broadcast times are dictated by the networks ... made to improve ratings and viewership. Those things are their responsibility, not NASCAR's.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Stick and Ball Alert
The difference with college bowl games is the participating schools are responsible for the sale of a minimum number of tickets. The ones the schools can't move, they get to eat. Occasionally a school will decline a bowl invitations because it will lose too much money participating, even with conference shares.

I don't think this happens in any professional sport in the US. I don't know enough about college sports to say if this happens outside football.
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The major bowls don't rely entirely on the participating teams to sell all the tickets. Likewise with the Super Bowl. They're counting on the event to attract people who have no emotional ties with the participants. Which it does. The same applies to NASCAR races. Especially ones like the Brickyard, Daytona, Southern 500 and Coke 600.
 
aunty dive said:
Nonsense. Changes to scheduling and broadcast times are dictated by the networks ... made to improve ratings and viewership. Those things are their responsibility, not NASCAR's.
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Exactly. TV is dictating the change to try to improve viewership. That's my point. If they were happy the starting times wouldn't be changing.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Happens in MLB all the time. Day games moved to night games on a weeks notice.
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It can happen in the NFL too. But the starting times don't change. If your game gets flexed it will be at 8:35 on NBC this year, last year, 5 years ago, and 6 six years from now. Likewise if your baseball game moves to ESPN. 8:05 first pitch.....
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
It can happen in the NFL too. But the starting times don't change. If your game gets flexed it will be at 8:35 on NBC this year, last year, 5 years ago, and 6 six years from now. Likewise if your baseball game moves to ESPN. 8:05 first pitch.....
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I was simply talking about the rescheduling of a game on short notice. Not anything about consistent start times.

Consistent start times never concerned me when it comes to the original subject of NASCAR. I've never had a problem finding out what time or channel a race has been on. Even back in the day where the network changed on a weekly basis..... Not a problem. In today's world, information is available just a click away. As an attending fan and home viewer I find this subject of later stop times a non issue. YMMV
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Their not happy. That's why NASCAR has more tv related changes than any sport I can think of. NFL games have always been 1 pm and 4('ish) on Sunday afternoons. The Super Bowl has been around 6:30 PM ET for the last 25+ years. College football on the major networks have been 12 pm and 3:30 pm. Notre Dame games on NBC have been 2:30 for as long as I can remember. PGA Tour weekend schedule is almost always 3 pm unless it's a major (like this week). 20 years ago it was 3:30 or 4 iirc. College basketball's ESPN weeknight schedule is M-Thurs 7 and 9 pm. That goes back to the heyday of the Big East.
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In my feeble mind I can't see how the networks would be happy because both NBC and FOX have not been able to charge cable/sat providers more for the privilege of carrying their sports networks. I don't understand how advertisers can be happy as they are paying to reach a Jurassic demographic and the fans are obviously not happy as they are showing up less at the track and in front of televisions. The number of people streaming Nascar races is minuscule based on numbers I have seen reported here so the only entity I can see happy is Nascar as they are getting paid.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Happens in MLB all the time. Day games moved to night games on a weeks notice.
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I don't follow MLB but I know that NFL games that are deemed great match ups can be moved to a national broadcast at short notice. Of course the NFL and NCAAF operate in a totally different world from everyone else.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
The major bowls don't rely entirely on the participating teams to sell all the tickets. Likewise with the Super Bowl. They're counting on the event to attract people who have no emotional ties with the participants. Which it does. The same applies to NASCAR races. Especially ones like the Brickyard, Daytona, Southern 500 and Coke 600.
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IDK how College ball works but I thought each team was allocated a certain amount of tickets but that is it.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Exactly. TV is dictating the change to try to improve viewership. That's my point. If they were happy the starting times wouldn't be changing.
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On the link that dpk posted the Nascar lackey was saying that more events are being scheduled so they will be closer to primetime and draw more viewers. I may be proven wrong but I don't see it moving the needle in terms of adding more viewers and certainly none in the desired demographic. It appears to me that many of the moves Nascar has made in the last few years are based on hope more than specifically and factually addressing a problem. Even if that is not the case what Nascar has done to gain more fans has been like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
 
Skoal, I'm pretty sure FS1 and NBCSN have both increased their number of households served since the new Nascar TV contract. Their carriage fees are based on households x rate per household. The rates are sticky, being covered by long term contracts.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Skoal, I'm pretty sure FS1 and NBCSN have both increased their number of households served since the new Nascar TV contract. Their carriage fees are based on households x rate per household. The rates are sticky, being covered by long term contracts.
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http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/the...orks-are-massive-but-for-how-much-longer.html

Here is an article you may find interesting as it talks about subscriber fees and the importance of viewers for cable networks. IDK where demographics come into play as I read where one network exec said that advertisers are not the tail that wags the dog but actually are the whole dog. All I can say is I cannot wait until the comes when I can stream everything I want and completely get rid of cable.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Even in the NFL, they have "flex scheduling" and move games around, based on what game NBC wants to air.
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With the NFL I am glad that most Sunday games begin very shortly after 1:00 PM, 4:00 PM and 8:20 PM as regardless of who is playing and what network is broadcasting things stay the same. With Nascar going to later starts it would be great if they would start the race almost immediately at 3:00 PM as they already have an hour or so to talk about nothing prior to the race so it is a bummer they waste another 25 minutes or so in dropping the green.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
With the NFL I am glad that most Sunday games begin very shortly after 1:00 PM, 4:00 PM and 8:20 PM as regardless of who is playing and what network is broadcasting things stay the same. With Nascar going to later starts it would be great if they would start the race almost immediately at 3:00 PM as they already have an hour or so to talk about nothing prior to the race so it is a bummer they waste another 25 minutes or so in dropping the green.
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I don't know if these later start times help or hurt NASCAR ratings-wise, but for me, I'll be watching NFL instead. These games come on so late........
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I don't know if these later start times help or hurt NASCAR ratings-wise, but for me, I'll be watching NFL instead. These games come on so late........
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Even though I DVR all the races the later start times will cause me to go on the accelerated viewing plan due to time left in the day. I don't mind missing the chase races as they are not important to me. BTW, Jags are going 8-8 this year in a major step forward.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Even though I DVR all the races the later start times will cause me to go on the accelerated viewing plan due to time left in the day. I don't mind missing the chase races as they are not important to me. BTW, Jags are going 8-8 this year in a major step forward.
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Meant to say "these races come on so late..."

NASCAR must be banking on the races starting so late that people turn on the race after the 1pm game.

The Carolina Panthers are a great team now and people around here who normally watch NASCAR don't even care about racing after August anymore. From September through January, it's all about the Carolina Panthers, and then ACC Basketball at the start of the season.

NASCAR's a third place sport, at best, in North Carolina. That's bad.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Football and Nascar are apples and oranges. People will walk on their lips through busted glass to see football and will go into work bleary eyed the next day. It ain't happening for Nascar.....trust me.....and with the age of Nascar's audience half the people will be snoring by 9:00pm.
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That sounds like something NASCAR needs to address.

I'm against later start times but starting races at 1pm because NASCAR fans are 700 years old doesn't solve their woes.


The Daytona 500 needs to be in primetime, just like every other major sporting event in the country. It would only grow the audience, as the only Daytona 500 ever held in primetime showed.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Meant to say "these races come on so late..."

NASCAR must be banking on the races starting so late that people turn on the race after the 1pm game.

The Carolina Panthers are a great team now and people around here who normally watch NASCAR don't even care about racing after August anymore. From September through January, it's all about the Carolina Panthers, and then ACC Basketball at the start of the season.

NASCAR's a third place sport, at best, in North Carolina. That's bad.
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Hell, I even noticed this past season on Twitter that almost everyone in the garage became a diehard Hornets fan overnight.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Hell, I even noticed this past season on Twitter that almost everyone in the garage became a diehard Hornets fan overnight.
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Why I can't stand the Panthers right here. A couple years ago, everyone in the NASCAR media became die-hard Panthers fans. People I knew who never watched football before were suddenly life-long Panthers fans. And even NASCAR reporters spend the races tweeting about the Panthers instead.

When "NASCAR Nation" cares more about the Panthers and Hornets, that says it all.

This sport better do something to reignite interest.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
That sounds like something NASCAR needs to address.

I'm against later start times but starting races at 1pm because NASCAR fans are 700 years old doesn't solve their woes.


The Daytona 500 needs to be in primetime, just like every other major sporting event in the country. It would only grow the audience, as the only Daytona 500 ever held in primetime showed.
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They would need to move the 500 to Sunday night as opposed to Saturday night or they would lose viewers, IMO.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Meant to say "these races come on so late..."

NASCAR must be banking on the races starting so late that people turn on the race after the 1pm game.

The Carolina Panthers are a great team now and people around here who normally watch NASCAR don't even care about racing after August anymore. From September through January, it's all about the Carolina Panthers, and then ACC Basketball at the start of the season.

NASCAR's a third place sport, at best, in North Carolina. That's bad.
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I was really surprised to learn Nascar isn't that hot in Charlotte but I suppose since it has become bigger and more cosmopolitan it makes sense.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
They would need to move the 500 to Sunday night as opposed to Saturday night or they would lose viewers, IMO.
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That's what I'm saying. Sunday night, since the race is going back to President's Day Weekend in 2018.

I'm probably the biggest hater of night races there is on here. But the Super Bowl, NFL Kickoff, World Series, MLB Opening Night, NHL Stanley Cup Finals, NBA Finals, the Final Four, the NCAA Championship, the College Football Playoff, the NBA All-Star Game and the MLB All-Star Game are all in primetime. The Daytona 500 should be as well. I would say the NASCAR championship race too, but that'd be tough since the race is on NBC and they have the NFL primetime game too.
 
I'd guess that the NFL rules in every market. It's, by far, the most popular sport on television. I don't find it at all surprising that the NFL is #1 in Charlotte. They wanted a team for a long time and finally got one in the 90's. NASCAR takes a back seat to the NFL each and every week they go head to head. Not surprising at all IMO.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I was really surprised to learn Nascar isn't that hot in Charlotte but I suppose since it has become bigger and more cosmopolitan it makes sense.
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And because there's so many transplants in Charlotte from the upper Midwest and Northeast that does help. I work at a large company here and hardly anyone I work with is into NASCAR but a ton of people jumped on the Panthers bandwagon and became a trendy fan.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
That's what I'm saying. Sunday night, since the race is going back to President's Day Weekend in 2018.

I'm probably the biggest hater of night races there is on here. But the Super Bowl, NFL Kickoff, World Series, MLB Opening Night, NHL Stanley Cup Finals, NBA Finals, the Final Four, the NCAA Championship, the College Football Playoff, the NBA All-Star Game and the MLB All-Star Game are all in primetime. The Daytona 500 should be as well. I would say the NASCAR championship race too, but that'd be tough since the race is on NBC and they have the NFL primetime game too.
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With the 500 ratings trending downward a Sunday night race could be a great shot in the arm for all of Nascar.
 
carolinabuff said:
And because there's so many transplants in Charlotte from the upper Midwest and Northeast that does help. I work at a large company here and hardly anyone I work with is into NASCAR but a ton of people jumped on the Panthers bandwagon and became a trendy fan.
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Over the years I have had colleagues and friends relocate to the greater Atlanta area and it is mainly about the Bulldogs and Yellow Jackets with some Braves, Falcons and Hawks. Nascar is not really on the radar as even dropping to a single race has not inspired the locals to support the date.
 
I'd rather them move all Cup races to Saturday, but the later start times are welcome so I don't end up as hung over for work on Monday.
 
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