Steve Phelps on NASCAR: "We lost our way.."

Towmater said:
The article and what I quoted opened my eyes to –

1) The huge difference in the moneys brought in by ticket holders last year and TV. Over the course of the last 10 years it might be interesting to see where the gap started, if there was one, and how far it has increased. It explains why the sport is moving in the direction that it is moving in as TV holds the power.
2) The seats being removed from Daytona is alarming. That’s the biggest race. It is NASCAR’s Super Bowl and they have had to remove 60,000 seats to make it look filled. Yikes!

Apparently, the above is tough for twitter repeaters to understand. BTW, I do not believe you are one of those people.
Click to expand...

yeah over a hundred and one thousand person capacity, in the stands, not counting the all of the sold out infield motor home parking, some of it at 3000 bucks a pop is a tragedy of unmatched proportions :cuckoo: sold out BTW.
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah over a hundred and one thousand person capacity, in the stands, not counting the all of the sold out infield motor home parking, some of it at 3000 bucks a pop is a tragedy of unmatched proportions :cuckoo: sold out BTW.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can find a tweet from ISC saying that they didn’t want to make too much money and that why they removed them. LOL.

Wow, and to think they removed 60,000 paying seats to miss out on all that revenue – You know, just cause. No other reason.
 
Towmater said:
Maybe you can find a tweet from ISC saying that they didn’t want to make too much money and that why they removed them. LOL.

Wow, and to think they removed 60,000 paying seats to miss out on all that revenue – You know, just cause. No other reason.
Click to expand...

So what's your point, your not alarmed anymore for the future of a racing series ya just love? Or the rest of us who have known this for years are supposed to be shocked by your news? Or that we fans have forgot all about the 400 million re mod that Nascar using their own funds did to Daytona. :idunno:
 
As I wandered Bourbon Street last night — I realized that NASCAR like New Orleans seems to make more sense when your drinking.

Bring on the races!
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
What fans want: More horsepower and less downforce.
What fans get: Less horsepower and more downforce.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with more downforce - that might actually make them be able to stay faster in the turns. It's the less horsepower that disappoints me.
 
Jeff Turner said:
I'm fine with more downforce - that might actually make them be able to stay faster in the turns. It's the less horsepower that disappoints me.
Click to expand...

it has worked well for years in the other series. produced some of the best racing of the weekend many times IMO. I don't think I have ever heard anybody that watched the trucks or Xfinity complain the racing was dumbed down, or that it was less skillful, or complaints about flat footing it, but many races are just that. From my own standpoint I have thought more than a few times, if they had the stars in those cars with the racing they have in those series, they would have something. So we'll see. I ain't skered they are going off the end of the earth.
 
StandOnIt said:
it has worked well for years in the other series. produced some of the best racing of the weekend many times IMO. I don't think I have ever heard anybody that watched the trucks or Xfinity complain the racing was dumbed down, or that it was less skillful, or complaints about flat footing it, but many races are just that. From my own standpoint I have thought more than a few times, if they had the stars in those cars with the racing they have in those series, they would have something. So we'll see. I ain't skered they are going off the end of the earth.
Click to expand...

If I wanted to watch Xfinity with Cup drivers, I'd just watch Xfinity. :)
 
StandOnIt said:
probably the best thing for you is to watch the 14 cup races, none of the Xfinity or the trucks races and ya got it. ;)
Click to expand...

Funny thing is, I often do this to avoid burnout, but never miss a Cup race. I'll still end up checking in on the Trucks and Xfinity though.
 
NASCAR could be reasoning that:

More hp, less downforce — and you’re battling the car

More downforce, less hp — and you’re battling other drivers
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah I said that. And it always gets the snarky comment. And now he likes it...go figure.
Click to expand...

Haha not exactly. He's just talking about their reasoning of the "why" behind it imo. Not that it will actually turn out that way, anymore than it already was, with driver's battling against each other.
 
Turtle84 said:
Haha not exactly. He's just talking about their reasoning of the "why" behind it imo. Not that it will actually turn out that way, anymore than it already was, with driver's battling against each other.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty done here, but this doesn't make any sense. The Trucks and the xfinity packages more often than not produce three and four wide racing and that is what the 1.5 package in cup is attempting to do the same thing.
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm pretty done here, but this doesn't make any sense. The Trucks and the xfinity packages more often than not produce three and four wide racing and that is what the 1.5 package in cup is attempting to do the same thing.
Click to expand...

That's the part I don't agree with, you're sold on the Truck and Xfinity package providing some great entertainment to the likes that we've never seen before. We've seen it. 3 and 4 wide happens in Cup and has happened in Cup, especially on restarts the same it does for Truck and Xfinity, track dependent of course. Single file large gap green flag runs with very little passing also happens more often than not in Xfinity and Trucks once they get spread out too. If I wanted to watch the same thing, I would just watch the Xfinity race or Truck race. I'm not in favor of turning Cup into Xfinity with the cars. They are supposed to be 3 distinctly different series imo.

But, I will ungracefully bow out of this discussion since we're just not in agreement on it. I'll work on reducing the snarky too, although I was just joking and having fun with the comments. Not my intent to gang up on ya either. You can't be done we've got a long way to go this weekend. See ya in the duels thread :)
 
StandOnIt said:
So what's your point, your not alarmed anymore for the future of a racing series ya just love? Or the rest of us who have known this for years are supposed to be shocked by your news? Or that we fans have forgot all about the 400 million re mod that Nascar using their own funds did to Daytona. :idunno:
Click to expand...

What I find fascinating is people that have disdain for fans who wish to chat about the issues surrounding the decade, again decade, long slide of fans leaving the sport in droves which has culminated in 50% plus of them leaving. It appears that those NASCAR homers do not wish to have any dialog that brings light to the fact that what was once a major sport in the US has one again become a niche nor do they wish to discuss the why’s and the ideas of how to fix the situation. I'm not clear on why bringing up the problems that have continued and the lack of them being addressed by NASCAR troubles people. I keep reading about how this is the same stuff people have been talking about for 10 years and I have to wonder why the disdain is aimed at those that keep bringing it up instead of the organization that keeps failing to fix those SAME issues or keeps ignoring the problems surrounding the sport.
 
Towmater said:
Maybe you can find a tweet from ISC saying that they didn’t want to make too much money and that why they removed them. LOL.

Wow, and to think they removed 60,000 paying seats to miss out on all that revenue – You know, just cause. No other reason.
Click to expand...
You can sell seats or change the spacing and sell suits which bring in a lot more dollars per square footage. Also at events other than racing, the suits are in bigger demand for people who have real money to spend.
 
Towmater said:
... what was once a major sport in the US has one again become a niche nor do they wish to discuss the why’s and the ideas of how to fix the situation. ...
Click to expand...

However, tennis and other sports that have boomed and dropped have the advantage of not being as dependent on sponsors as top-tier motorsports. Still, the sport got along very nicely before the mid-90s, just at a different level. There will be some reductions in the number of races, teams, maybe even series, but stock car racing as sanctioned by NASCAR isn't going away.
 
Team Penske said:
You can sell seats or change the spacing and sell suits which bring in a lot more dollars per square footage. Also at events other than racing, the suits are in bigger demand for people who have real money to spend.
Click to expand...
An RV lot may not bring in as much money as a full grandstand, but it may bring in more than a half-full one. It certainly costs a lot less to maintain and staff, so it may be more profitable.
 
If nascar wants me to watch races again, ditch the playoffs.

I watched the race on Sunday or Saturday (whatever race it was) and got excited about it again, and was like, you know, i should start watching again. Then i remember the playoff, its the dumbest move nascar has ever made and its the move that turn my interest away from the sport.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
However, tennis and other sports that have boomed and dropped have the advantage of not being as dependent on sponsors as top-tier motorsports. Still, the sport got along very nicely before the mid-90s, just at a different level. There will be some reductions in the number of races, teams, maybe even series, but stock car racing as sanctioned by NASCAR isn't going away.
Click to expand...



The issue with NASCAR relative to a lot of sports is how it runs its competitions has fundamentally changed how they conduct their competitions. NASCAR would have changed tennis's scoring system 15 years ago. Count by 15's? Love? Let? Huh?!? Likewise golf, no more 72 hole tournaments and the rampant use of the stableford scoring system (more "exciting" than traditional stroke play) would be things NASCAR would tinker with.
 
Go Panthers said:
If nascar wants me to watch races again, ditch the playoffs.

I watched the race on Sunday or Saturday (whatever race it was) and got excited about it again, and was like, you know, i should start watching again. Then i remember the playoff, its the dumbest move nascar has ever made and its the move that turn my interest away from the sport.
Click to expand...

I view it like golf, I care mostly about the majors and not as much about the titles. The Homestead Bowl is cool but I’d rather just have a 35 race push to decide the top 4.

Ultimately though the winner of races matters more to me, things like Daytona 500, Bristol night, Darlington, Coke 600
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
The issue with NASCAR relative to a lot of sports is how it runs its competitions has fundamentally changed how they conduct their competitions. NASCAR would have changed tennis's scoring system 15 years ago. Count by 15's? Love? Let? Huh?!? Likewise golf, no more 72 hole tournaments and the rampant use of the stableford scoring system (more "exciting" than traditional stroke play) would be things NASCAR would tinker with.
Click to expand...
Huh. I'm not sure why the post you replied to was edited, but there was a paragraph before the one you commented on. I said something to Towmater along the lines of 'Like tennis, NASCAR reverting to a niche status isn't necessarily being a problem that needs to be fixed, that it may not be possible to know what drove the boom years and therefore impossible to replicate them."

EDITED: Oops, I see you're already aware of the situation. I'm not sure what either of us said that was offensive.
 
gnomesayin said:
Additionally, you'll often hear two very contradictory claims from those who focus on this to the exclusion of racing matters. The first is that it's terrible that 50% of NASCAR audience has left. What did NASCAR do wrong to drive them away? The second is that NASCAR's audience demographics are too old and undesirable to advertisers, and the sport must be changed to attract a different demographic audience. So which is it? Are we worried about why 'traditional fans' left, or about how to attract a fundamentally different viewership? It can't be both.
Click to expand...
Well, NASCAR can certainly try to do both, but approaches needed may well be mutually exclusive.

As to overall audience size, the racing itself is still gonna happen regardless. Geez, the sport got along fine with a 28- or 30-race season and much smaller purses for decades. I don't see a reason.why a return to those conditions would kill it. Even if the TV coverage is cut back with the next contract, there are now plenty of other distribution options that didn't exist before the boom era. Those didn't come about because of the increase in popularity, they came about because of changes in entertainment technology. It doesn't make much difference to me whether I pay cable for a couple of extra sports tiers or whether I pay NASCAR directly for an annual streaming subscription. The racing will be there, along with ways to watch it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Well, NASCAR can certainly try to do both, but approaches needed may well be mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

Yes. Attempting to split the difference between two oppositional objectives kinda sounds like what NASCAR marketing has been like over the past 10-15 years. I don't claim that they've been successful or well managed.
 
aunty dive said:
Why are posts being edited without indication?
Click to expand...

Been happening all week. Several harmless comments are being needlessly edited or deleted. I think I'm done posting on here for a while. I'll continue to lurk, but I really don't feel the need to participate in discussion if the moderators are going to continue this nonsense.
 
My last post that Charlie quoted the second half of was also wholesale deleted. I was never one to complain much about moderating previously, including of my own posts at times. It was mostly accountable, the rules were fairly straightforward, and I know how tough a job it is to keep conversations on track.
 
Good title lost our way. Personally one solution would be to have an election and elect multiple mods if anybody is up to the challenge. Have people who want to do that job, state why they would be good or even decent at it, and how much time and or

days they could dedicate to doing so , put them into a pole to be voted on and go from there. Write the rules that almost all forums have about flaming and trolling to keep so much of this B.S. down to a dull roar, concentrate on keeping threads on topic, and

be able to have a dialog with the mods when posts are deleted instead of this fiefdom. So many times what a poster means is misinterpreted, or misunderstood in printed form. . In my case, having flamers and trolls follow me around like yapping dogs while I

am trying to bring racing info into the forum, like it was their sworn duty to downplay every new post? Why would anybody new or present want to go out and find anything to post looking at what happens to those that do. Lets face it, the posters can make or break this place. my two cents
 
gnomesayin said:
My last post that Charlie quoted the second half of was also wholesale deleted. I was never one to complain much about moderating previously, including of my own posts at times. It was mostly accountable, the rules were fairly straightforward, and I know how tough a job it is to keep conversations on track.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure out what those posts were partially deleted?It doesn't make any sense without the top half that was deleted.

Clearly drawing for other sports/relevant things has to be allowed to provide context and intelligent conversation. Otherwise we as a message board community "have lost our way"...
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
I'm trying to figure out what those posts were partially deleted?It doesn't make any sense without the top half that was deleted.

Clearly drawing for other sports/relevant things has to be allowed to provide context and intelligent conversation. Otherwise we as a message board community "have lost our way"...
Click to expand...
I'm still not sure what I said. I thought I was on topic. I certainly wasn't vulgar or insulting.

I don't mind being edited half as much as not knowing why, or who made the decision. It's a private forum and the mods have every authority to do as they see fit but c'mon, at least send a peer mail telling us what we did wrong. Otherwise we'll probably do it again, unintentionally creating more work for you.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm still not sure what I said. I thought I was on topic. I certainly wasn't vulgar or insulting.

I don't mind being edited half as much as not knowing why, or who made the decision. It's a private forum and the mods have every authority to do as they see fit but c'mon, at least send a peer mail telling us what we did wrong. Otherwise we'll probably do it again, unintentionally creating more work for you.
Click to expand...

I much rather have my comment deleted all together and a message sent as to why. To delete half of my post completely changes my narrative. It doesn't make any sense in terms of what I was trying to get across in its current form. Basically my words/point were distorted by an outside angency. As someone who doesn't post here all the time that's scary to me. What other posts have been altered without my knowledge? Post 104 should just be deleted at this point if it's offensive.

I've been here several years and I'm dumbfounded. I really liked some of the deep/intelligent convoys that existed.
 
I just went looking through. I'll address this under separate cover, but it looks like the attending mod removed the analogy to Tennis since it's not racing related.
 
Much more than that was deleted, and is being deleted routinely of late. My completely deleted post did not reference tennis or any other outside sport or subject.

Why is the attending mod operating anonymously and in secret? Not only are no explanations given for the frequent edits and deletions, there aren't even any "edited by" notifications as mentioned by @aunty dive .
 
Team Penske said:
You can sell seats or change the spacing and sell suits which bring in a lot more dollars per square footage. Also at events other than racing, the suits are in bigger demand for people who have real money to spend.
Click to expand...

According to Bob Pockrass ISC had 1.1 million seats in 2007. They are now down to 683,000. That's a lot of suits.



At the end of the day, I believe that most people would agree that the seats have been taken out due to the optics of having huge amounts of seats empty and what that does to sponsorship money for the tracks, TV, and the teams.
 
Magnethead said:
I just went looking through. I'll address this under separate cover, but it looks like the attending mod removed the analogy to Tennis since it's not racing related.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I guess. I'm open to suggestions for other analogies that demonstrate that the end of a popularity boom isn't the death of a sport. Should I have compared to Hot Wheels, maybe?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom