Team Orders

Zerkfitting

Zerkfitting

Team Owner
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Jul 26, 2012
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We’ve seen it pretty regularly when a driver lets a teammate by to take the lead for a bonus point. Before there were teammates, drivers would let a friend by for a bonus point. I don’t think we consider that form of team orders to be serious.

But I’ve noticed the concept of team orders moving to a higher level. For me it started at Martinsville in 2015 when the Penske drivers were manipulating the restarts; the lead driver would let a teammate take the preferred starting position and that teammate would slow the preferred line so the leader could get back into the lead. That tactic has been used more than once since then and in my opinion was the catalyst of the most dramatic form of retribution (Kenseth/Lagano) .

When Bayne won the 500 his Ford and Gordon’s Chevy worked well together all day. The next tandem race had both team orders and manufacturer’s orders where teammates tried to run together, or Fords ran with Fords and Chevys ran with Chevys.

With more opportunities to get points with the new format I wonder what steps multi car teams will take to get additional points. The worst case scenario would be running teams like roller derby – I doubt that will happen because I think the integrity of the teams and drivers won’t allow it. But I can imagine more active blocking or running interference. I’m wondering how far team orders might go before it hurts the sport?
 
I think the Edwards / Busch dust-up demonstrates team orders go out the window when the win is on the line. Ditto Johnson and Gordon running close enough at M'ville for Bowyer to run them both out of the way.
 
Zerkfitting said:
We’ve seen it pretty regularly when a driver lets a teammate by to take the lead for a bonus point. Before there were teammates, drivers would let a friend by for a bonus point. I don’t think we consider that form of team orders to be serious.

But I’ve noticed
Zerkfitting said:
. For me it started at Martinsville in 2015 when the Penske drivers were manipulating the restarts; the lead driver would let a teammate take the preferred starting position and that teammate would slow the preferred line so the leader could get back into the lead. That tactic has been used more than once since then and in my opinion was the catalyst of the most dramatic form of retribution (Kenseth/Lagano) .

When Bayne won the 500 his Ford and Gordon’s Chevy worked well together all day. The next tandem race had both team orders and manufacturer’s orders where teammates tried to run together, or Fords ran with Fords and Chevys ran with Chevys.

With more opportunities to get points with the new format I wonder what steps multi car teams will take to get additional points. The worst case scenario would be running teams like roller derby – I doubt that will happen because I think the integrity of the teams and drivers won’t allow it. But I can imagine more active blocking or running interference. I’m wondering how far team orders might go before it hurts the sport?
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me it started at Martinsville in 2015 when the Penske drivers were manipulating the restarts; the lead driver would let a teammate take the preferred starting position and that teammate would slow the preferred line so the leader could get back into the lead. That tactic has been used more than once since then and in my opinion was the catalyst of the most dramatic form of retribution (Kenseth/Lagano) .

When Bayne won the 500 his Ford and Gordon’s Chevy worked well together all day. The next tandem race had both team orders and manufacturer’s orders where teammates tried to run together, or Fords ran with Fords and Chevys ran with Chevys.

With more opportunities to get points with the new format I wonder what steps multi car teams will take to get additional points. The worst case scenario would be running teams like roller derby – I doubt that will happen because I think the integrity of the teams and drivers won’t allow it. But I can imagine more active blocking or running interference. I’m wondering how far team orders might go before it hurts the sport?
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Really liked the way that paid off for Brad and Joey.
 
I was thinking about this as it relates to Xfinity and Trucks though. Lets say Kyle or Brad are running in the Truck series and leading with one of their Trucks in 2nd as a stage is ending. Do they let their guy by to win the stage for the playoff points? If so, how does NASCAR view that? Same with the JGR, SHR, and JRM "all-star" cars, that are teammates to full-time Xfinity regulars.
 
MarcWiley said:
I was thinking about this as it relates to Xfinity and Trucks though. Lets say Kyle or Brad are running in the Truck series and leading with one of their Trucks in 2nd as a stage is ending. Do they let their guy by to win the stage for the playoff points? If so, how does NASCAR view that? Same with the JGR, SHR, and JRM "all-star" cars, that are teammates to full-time Xfinity regulars.
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I don't think all of the specifics have been announced. It may be that, because they, Kyle or Brad, are declared in the Cup Series, only the Xfinity regulars are scored. That would be my guess. Really, no different than last year.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I don't think all of the specifics have been announced. It may be that, because they, Kyle or Brad, are declared in the Cup Series, only the Xfinity regulars are scored. That would be my guess. Really, no different than last year.
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I believe I remember them saying that unless they were actually P1 at the end of a Stage they wouldn't get a playoff point. This would make sense because from the owner's side, those cars still earn points for those positions. I've tweeted Steve O'Donnell and others a few times about this and haven't gotten an answer yet. I guess we'll have to wait until someone does it and let the ensuing controversy decide the outcome.
 
Team orders definitely exist. It's not like they're really even "orders" - it's more like everyone on the team knows the things that need to be accomplished that day. I agree that team orders get thrown out the window if teammates are racing for a win...HOWEVER...if one of those two teammates needs the win to clinch a Chase birth, that teammate will most likely win (winky face). Again, these drivers all know the landscape. Also...some teammates are better teammates than others (another winky face).

Here's a video clip of one of my favorite all time "teammate" moments - Kurt Busch knowing Danica needed a decent finish in the Duel to qualify her for the 2015 Daytona 500 (he was already guaranteed a spot). I love this move because 1) it's the Kurt Busch that everyone who knows him knows (a great teammate who ALWAYS knows what's going on around him on the track) and 2) helping Danica get in the 500 was almost the last thing he ever did in his NASCAR career (he was suspended the very next day for the false DV allegations). Watch at around the :40 second mark, he notices Danica up high and potentially out of the draft. He literally makes his way to the back and at around the 1:00 mark, makes a bee-line to the top in order to push her into a qualifying position. It was deliberate, and something I know he's still proud of.

 
MarcWiley said:
@Allenbaba, any noise from teams on how they might play this game with the new structure?
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No clue. I think most teams are still filling up notebooks with math equations trying to figure it out!

The most important thing to a team owner is a championship. Doesn't matter (too much) who. So, there's two schools of thought. Do you 1) try your best to load up a single car with as many playoff points as possible, or 2) spread them out among all the cars. In other words, if I handed Roger Penske 50 playoff points to hand out, would he give 25 to the #22 and 25 to the #2? Or give all 50 to the #22, almost ensuring having at least one car at Miami? Hard to say, but I do know the teams have been running war game type scenarios trying to figure out what the best path to having a team in Miami is.
 
Allenbaba said:
No clue. I think most teams are still filling up notebooks with math equations trying to figure it out!

The most important thing to a team owner is a championship. Doesn't matter (too much) who. So, there's two schools of thought. Do you 1) try your best to load up a single car with as many playoff points as possible, or 2) spread them out among all the cars. In other words, if I handed Roger Penske 50 playoff points to hand out, would he give 25 to the #22 and 25 to the #2? Or give all 50 to the #22, almost insuring having at least one car at Miami? Hard to say, but I do know the teams have been running war game type scenarios trying to figure out what the best path to having a team in Miami is.
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Man. I'm loving this. I know I'm one of the few, but I genuinely love the idea of this format and think the strategy will make this season really interesting. Unless someone absolutely nails it and runs away with the thing, but I don't see that happening.
 
MarcWiley said:
Man. I'm loving this. I know I'm one of the few, but I genuinely love the idea of this format and think the strategy will make this season really interesting. Unless someone absolutely nails it and runs away with the thing, but I don't see that happening.
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I love it too. I think it's such a great marriage of "winning is THE MOST important thing" and "consistent excellent performance/wins/etc over the course of the season will help keep you alive so that one single mistake in the Chase doesn't erase 26 weeks of excellence." It will be pretty rare now for a dominant team with 4, 5 or 6 wins to get knocked out in the first round because of a single parts failure. It really is the perfect recipe. I don't like much that comes out of corporate, but I love this.
 
I don't love any Chase scenario, but I prefer this one to the model used the last two years. I'll hold further judgement until the waste hits the rotating device.

You know Knaus will have it figured out before Charlotte.
 
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