The Carl Edwards/Tony Stewart Restart Controversy

Pemberton: In other words we screwed up but it's not our fault....
 
SST55 said:
Pemberton: In other words we screwed up but it's not our fault....
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What does any of this have to do with Carls penalty? "I saw Stewart leave pit road first, but somehow I THINK they screwed me out of the inside line. Of course they will let me jump the restart AGAIN to make up for it". How spaced out is this guy? He must think NASCAR is rooting for HIM.
 
It seems like someone could very easily write some software for the scoring system that would Not change the pylon under these type situations....or NASCAR could Blackflag drivers for passing the leader under yellow :p
 
A more detailed breakdown of what went down Sat. night.

Lap 308 (92 remaining): Drivers begin making green-flag pit stops for tires and fuel.

Lap 311 (89 remaining): Moments after exiting pit road, Jeff Burton’s BB&T Chevrolet hits the wall in Turn Three, bringing out the caution flag. Just three drivers -- Edwards, Jimmie Johnson and Tony Stewart – have yet to pit for service, leaving them as the only drivers on the lead lap.

Lap 313 (87 remaining): Edwards, Johnson and Stewart pit under the ensuing caution period, with Johnson emerging from pit road as the leader.

Kyle Busch receives the “Lucky Dog,” bypasses the Pace Car and becomes the fourth car on the lead lap after making his pit stop.

Lap 314 (86 remaining): Johnson is penalized by NASCAR for an errant tire on pit road, forcing him to restart at the rear of the field.

Lap 318 (82 remaining): Numerous cars take advantage of NASCAR’s “wave around” procedure, passing the Pace Car and putting themselves back on the lead lap. They take their place at the back of the pack, restarting behind a number of lapped machines.

The field forms-up for the restart, with Stewart on the inside of the front row and Edwards alongside.

While scrubbing tires for the impending restart, Edwards crosses the start/finish line ahead of Stewart, causing RIR’s automated scoreboard to erroneously display him as the leader. A FOX television graphic also displays Edwards as the leader.

Edwards is informed by spotter Jason Hedlesky that he is, in fact, being scored as the leader. (Hedlesky subsequently claims a NASCAR official confirmed that Edwards was the leader of the race; a statement the sanctioning body denies.) Edwards assumes that as the leader, he is in control of the impending restart.

Lap 319 (81 remaining): Edwards accelerates in Turn Four, prior to entering NASCAR’s mandated “restart box.” The green flag flies and Edwards beats Stewart to the start/finish line by a wide margin. He is immediately black-flagged by NASCAR for jumping the restart and pits to serve his penalty, forfeiting any chance for victory.

While the situation was confusing at the time, the facts in hindsight clearly indicate that Stewart – not Edwards – was the rightful leader of the race. While many fans (and a handful of media members) still are unclear about the events that unfolded Saturday night, there are four indisputable facts that make the situation much easier to understand…

FACT ONE: Edwards and his team erroneously assumed NASCAR had made a “late call” designating him as the leader. "Jason Hedlesky told me I was the leader,” said Edwards after the race. “I did everything I could to beat Tony down into Turn One. I had no clue they were going to black-flag me afterward.”

“It was very confusing," agreed crew chief Bob Osborne. "We rely on NASCAR to tell us how we came off pit road and where we were supposed to line up. Unfortunately, a late call made it much more confusing than what it really was. When you have to make a split-second decision based on information coming over the radio, it's a lot harder than when you have time to digest what's going on.”

FACT TWO: Scoring pylons and television “crawls” are unofficial. Track scoreboards and television graphics are based on raw transponder data, and are intended only to help fans and viewers keep up with the race. Lineups are frequently adjusted by NASCAR prior to restarts, and no restart lineup or finishing order is official until confirmed by the sanctioning body.

In short, it’s dangerous to assume, without being in possession of all the facts.

FACT THREE: If Edwards had been the leader of the race, NASCAR would have allowed him to choose his lane for the restart. Despite a good deal of confusion in the spotter’s stand and pit area, NASCAR never wavered in designating Stewart as the rightful leader of the race. The sanctioning body indicated as much by allowing the defending series champion to select the advantageous inside line for the restart. “Coming to the one to go, they knew (Stewart) was the leader and (Edwards) was second,” said NASCAR’s Robin Pemberton. “It's as clear as that."

FACT FOUR: Edwards’ Lap 319 restart was illegal, whether he was the leader or not. NASCAR mandates that all restarts must occur within a designated “restart box.” Lines are clearly painted on the wall, delineating the parameters of this box. Drivers are told every week in their pre-race driver’s meeting that failing to honor the boundaries of the restart box will result in a black flag.

Numerous television replays show that Edwards restarted well before entering the box, leaving Stewart in his wake. Stewart may (or may not) have compounded the situation by spinning his tires, or intentionally laying back to make Edwards’ infraction more apparent. In the end, however, it doesn’t matter.

When Edwards gassed up his No. 99 Ford before reaching the restart box, he sealed his own doom.
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This is from Dave 'The Shill' Moody and can be read here.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Some need such detail. ;)
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Damn straight. It would be fascinating.


Lap 319 (81 remaining): Edwards accelerates in Turn Four, prior to entering NASCAR’s mandated “restart box.” The green flag flies and Edwards beats Stewart to the start/finish line by a wide margin. He is immediately black-flagged by NASCAR for jumping the restart and pits to serve his penalty, forfeiting any chance for victory.

Lap 321 (79 remaining): A water bottle is seen flying out of the left window of 99 car. At the same moment, a nickle plated cup holder flies out of the 99's right side window. Edwards reports debris on the track and then screams "I was the leaderer, you big stupid head".
 
Just one more side issue , don't know how clear it is in the above recap. The scoring pylon is NOT under the control on NASCAR , apparantly it is owned and operated by the track . If fans or the Edwards crew have a beef with the scoring pylon , they don't need to be taking that up with NASCAR.
 
Edwards messed up no denial is intended by my post.


Just realize these are real people too. Drivers are also geared to seek every permissible advantage. Edwards and team also had to make this call in the time span of a single pace lap.


Again I think he messed up, and he also made this a non issue by jumping the starting box.


But when the microphone is in the face immediately afterwards, you are going to here more emotion than facts.


He will see the mistake this week and adjust, the school master told him not to jump the box, it will sink in.


My reasoning method, Carl was classy at Homestead he had time to mentally prep, that's all he needs now.
 
Greg said:
My reasoning method, Carl was classy at Homestead he had time to mentally prep, that's all he needs now.
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All goog points, but what Carl did at Homestead killed me. Preparing before the last race to be a good loser makes you a loser.
 
FenderBumper said:
All goog points, but what Carl did at Homestead killed me. Preparing before the last race to be a good loser makes you a loser.
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One can prepare to do their best both on and off the track, doing either one doesn't prevent the other. Especially when one just needs to compose for a predictionable moment you either gonna be the championship or the bridesmaid. I might concede if it was something to perform at the cost of car and race prep time.


But it is simple. Stay classy, compliment the winner, your team, smile and say you will being doing your best next year. Save the tears for when you get home, can even clutch teddy bear while crying all night in private . It isn't rocket science, maybe not even science, just common sense.




BTW
I respect what Tony did last year one the all time great accomplishments, but that was more about technical superiority than some John Wayne bravo.


Carl's heart just didn't shrink while Tony grew one. The idea makes for great writing and folklore, maybe helped the brand, but denies reality.


Everybody at the level brings the passion, but it takes a lot more than that, to win 5 out of 10.


The idea at Richmond was not something he anticipated, and his immediate surroundings prior to post race interview was from his team, a crowd wanting to believe they were screwed.


Same idea applies to Stewart, he was ticked to see a caution hurting his chances. Believing it was a cheap caution suited his mood at the time, I like Tony but he is still Tony.


By the time they get to Talladega they will have simmered. But the infamous moments kept by the fans are eternal.
 
I guess we just disagree on striving to be the "THE best loser NASCAR has ever seen" (what Carl said he told his wife the week before). It's just incomprehensable to me.

Carl's heart just didn't shrink while Tony grew one.

It wasn't Carls heart that shrunk while Tony grew a pair. Carl raced like a wuss at Talladega and Bristol, and it cost him. I'll bet the voice of Greg Biffle saying "lets go" with 7 or so laps left at Talladega, while Carl refused, kept him up at night. Pass just one more car, and he's the champ at the end of the year.

Meanwhile, Tony kept telling Carl not to sleep too long because he was coming to get him. Tony's amazing performance at Homestead, over coming bad pit stops and front damage, wasn't about technical superiority, it was Tony's refusal to even consider losing. THAT is what made the difference.
 
Sorry Fender , you stuff sounds great for the movies , but mostly this racing is still about the cars . Last week Junior ran out of brakes and no superman could have got that car to first . Smoke had a car that worked great on long runs but all of his skill and heart couldn't help him a bit on restarts . Carl getting sent to the back of the pack hurt his chances a lot more than his lack of balls . Jeff Gordon drove his guts out but came away with nothing again . And Jimmy Johnson is still the man , but can't win a race.
 
ted@economy said:
Sorry Fender , you stuff sounds great for the movies , but mostly this racing is still about the cars . Last week Junior ran out of brakes and no superman could have got that car to first . Smoke had a car that worked great on long runs but all of his skill and heart couldn't help him a bit on restarts . Carl getting sent to the back of the pack hurt his chances a lot more than his lack of balls . Jeff Gordon drove his guts out but came away with nothing again . And Jimmy Johnson is still the man , but can't win a race.
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err...we weren't talking about last week. :rolleyes:
 
A little more on this from yesterday.....


NASCAR's vice president for competition says there is radio communication supporting that Carl Edwards was second behind Tony Stewart when Saturday night's Sprint Cup race was restarted with 81 laps remaining.

"The confusion was on their part," NASCAR's Robin Pemberton said on Tuesday night at Charlotte Motor Speedway. "That's something they have to work on in their communication. We work with the crew chiefs, and if the crew chief thought there was something, the crew chief would have radioed us.

"But multiple times during that last lap it was repeated 14-99 (Stewart-Edwards) from more than one source."

"We have audio of them and more than once (Edwards) was told by their spotter they were in second place.

"Just before the restart, he (spotter) came over the radio and said, 'You're the leader,' for whatever reason. If he was confused because of the scoreboard, that could have been the only thing."

The scoreboard did at one point on the last lap before the restart show Edwards in the lead as he tripped scoring loops scrubbing his tires. Pemberton said nothing happened that would cause NASCAR to look at changing rules to make sure another such incidents happens in the future.
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The full story on this is here.
 
Personally, I thought the penalty was wrong. There was some definite miscommunication from several sources it seems. Carl's spotter said he was told that Carl was in the lead. This hasnt been confirmed nor proven wrong either. The scoring pylon had Carl in the lead so that was a good reason for the spotter and Carl to believe they were in the lead.

I think they should of just called off the restart and done it over. Since the pylon was incorrect and the information was bad, NASCAR should of just "ate" thier mistake and called off the restart, not penalize Carl.
 
DanicaFan said:
Personally, I thought the penalty was wrong. There was some definite miscommunication from several sources it seems. Carl's spotter said he was told that Carl was in the lead. This hasnt been confirmed nor proven wrong either. The scoring pylon had Carl in the lead so that was a good reason for the spotter and Carl to believe they were in the lead.

I think they should of just called off the restart and done it over. Since the pylon was incorrect and the information was bad, NASCAR should of just "ate" thier mistake and called off the restart, not penalize Carl.
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I think when the caution is out and everybody is lining up. They should just line up where they want to one by one. Problems over.
 
DanicaFan said:
Personally, I thought the penalty was wrong. There was some definite miscommunication from several sources it seems. Carl's spotter said he was told that Carl was in the lead. This hasnt been confirmed nor proven wrong either. The scoring pylon had Carl in the lead so that was a good reason for the spotter and Carl to believe they were in the lead.

I think they should of just called off the restart and done it over. Since the pylon was incorrect and the information was bad, NASCAR should of just "ate" thier mistake and called off the restart, not penalize Carl.
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Problem is the pylon is owned by the track and (like the TV coverage data ) , is unofficial . Nascar told the teams and drivers where to line up , and theirs is the only official scoring. Nascar made no mistake.
 
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