The Case for the Playoff System....and crowning of a Champion

Nitro Dude

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Speaking of the championship playoffs...HMS is the only one right now that has all 4 cars qualified and has the chance to have all 4 cars in the final 4 playoff race.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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As far as Hendrick, I wonder how long this will last. Kyle Larson's one of the three best drivers in the series, so I expect him to go deep in the playoffs. Elliott will probably go deep too. Bowman's gonna have to win playoff races to stay alive, and I'm not sure how deep consistency will get Byron.

2021's been a weird year though, so we'll see. I wonder if some of the issues affecting short track racing right now will end up causing issues for teams in NASCAR later this year.

Being the best driver or team doesn't guarantee **** with NASCAR's welfare points system.
 

Snappy D

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Remember the time a guy started a thread advocating for a restart "choose rule" and was mocked and dismissed for having the audacity to suggest something so absurd and foreign?

I believe that was in 2018. Today it's the status quo.
I don’t think he’s a member here anymore but yes I do remember that. Really spirited debate in that one, he/she turned out not to be far off. I think it was...the Delaware restart?
 

gnomesayin

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I don’t think he’s a member here anymore but yes I do remember that. Really spirited debate in that one, he/she turned out not to be far off. I think it was...the Delaware restart?

Yeah, he was wrong about what Delaware restarts are, but what he proposed, taken from the pavement short track world, is pretty much exactly what NASCAR adopted two years later.
 

SpeedPagan

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I'll be honest, I'm surprised The Playoffs and Stages hadn't been thrown out when Brian France was outsed of his CEO role. I mean, these two ideas were obviously thought up during a weekend coke bender.
 

Blaze

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That can happen under any system, playoffs or otherwise.
If you lose it because it actually came down to the last race naturally, thats different than it being forced into the last race because of stupid playoffs. It’s not hard to understand.

1992 as an example, Davey lost because of something out of his control, but it naturally played out that way. That’s fine, had he had a better season overall, he wouldn’t have had to worry about it. But under the system now, you could have a great season where you should have it locked up, and you’re screwed.

Understand the difference now?
 

RacerrecaR

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If you lose it because it actually came down to the last race naturally, thats different than it being forced into the last race because of stupid playoffs. It’s not hard to understand.

1992 as an example, Davey lost because of something out of his control, but it naturally played out that way. That’s fine, had he had a better season overall, he wouldn’t have had to worry about it. But under the system now, you could have a great season where you should have it locked up, and you’re screwed.

Understand the difference now?
This. Someone can win the first 35 races, finish 2nd in race 36 and not win the championship with the current format. I have yet to hear anyone provide a logical argument in support of such a scenario.

The points format needs to be completely overhauled in order for it to reward both season-long results and playoff results. Crazy idea...no playoffs but triple the points (and bonus points for wins) for the final 6 races of the year. This way the cream will still remain at the top but it allows a small chance for an outsider to go on a tear and steal a championship at the end of the season. It would be a compromise for those against playoffs and those for playoffs, but the final 6 races would have to be 1 of each track type (short - Martinsville, dirt - Bristol, intermediate - Darlington, superspeedway - Pocono, plate - Daytona, road course - Charlotte).
 

Revman

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I know where you're coming from, but in reality they're close. Hamlin has been very consistent this year. Larson has been able to close out & win three races, but when it matters the most, they'll both be up there.
Head to head right now....Larson is 3 tenths better than the field. Hamlin isn't close.
 

Revman

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Let me pose you this question as a point to why the playoffs do kind of suck.

Say you have an amazing season, one where you would clinch the championship say, 2 races ahead of time, but since it’s a one race deal you don’t, but you make it there. Then during the race, some driver takes you out because he doesn’t like a move you made(and it’s not even a bad move, the other driver just gets mad) is it fair for you to lose that championship, all because another driver wanted to be a dick and wreck you? Something out of your control? That’s why the system is flawed. Stuff out of your control could cost you a championship.
Yeah, but my point is that the old system is flawed as well. You crown Hamlin the Champion, and you haven't crowned the best driver/team nor have you crowned the best performance. Larson, by every measure, is the class of the field right now. Definitively.
 

gnomesayin

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Yeah, but my point is that the old system is flawed as well.

Yes, it was very flawed. The Latford points scale was way too flat and didn't properly reward elite performance. The current points structure is still way too flat, and stage points are an absurd concoction. Instead of fixing the central problem, NASCAR did an end run around their own points system and built a series of bizarre structures on top of it.
 

Blaze

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Yeah, but my point is that the old system is flawed as well. You crown Hamlin the Champion, and you haven't crowned the best driver/team nor have you crowned the best performance. Larson, by every measure, is the class of the field right now. Definitively.
Right NOW, he hasn’t been the best since the start of the season.

Some stuff can be redone with the old format, give more points to the winner or something. But going back to a season long format is still best.
 

JJ_14

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Right NOW, he hasn’t been the best since the start of the season.

Some stuff can be redone with the old format, give more points to the winner or something. But going back to a season long format is still best.
I wouldn't mind eliminating stage racing completely & going back to the Winston Cup format. It sounds crazy but NASCAR should at least consider it.

The drivers need to be rewarded for leading laps like in the good old days. Not doing so is baffling to me.
 

SpeedPagan

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This. Someone can win the first 35 races, finish 2nd in race 36 and not win the championship with the current format. I have yet to hear anyone provide a logical argument in support of such a scenario.

The points format needs to be completely overhauled in order for it to reward both season-long results and playoff results. Crazy idea...no playoffs but triple the points (and bonus points for wins) for the final 6 races of the year. This way the cream will still remain at the top but it allows a small chance for an outsider to go on a tear and steal a championship at the end of the season. It would be a compromise for those against playoffs and those for playoffs, but the final 6 races would have to be 1 of each track type (short - Martinsville, dirt - Bristol, intermediate - Darlington, superspeedway - Pocono, plate - Daytona, road course - Charlotte).


I would change this to the crown jewel races being worth double or triple points.

Daytona 500
Geico 500 @ Talladega
Coca Cola 600
Southern 500.

Although I would switch out the Geico 500 for another race since we already have a super speedway race as a crown jewel. Either a road course race or a short track race. My vote would be for the Fall Martinsville race.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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They should bring back the original chase.

Top 10 in points. Point reset.

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They should introduce a new Chase.

36 races, 40 drivers, points reset at Daytona in February. Bonus points for leading a lap, leading the most laps, and qualifying on the pole.

And no stages.
 

SpeedPagan

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They should introduce a new Chase.

36 races, 40 drivers, points reset at Daytona in February. Bonus points for leading a lap, leading the most laps, and qualifying on the pole.

And no stages.

Ahh yes, the joke that never gets old. In fact, repeating it ad nauseam makes it funnier!
 

ToyYoda

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I actually wouldn’t want to go back to the season long points to determine the champion. Sure, sometimes it would manufacture a great scenario like in 1992, but more often than not we pretty much knew who the champion would be by August under that format.

I’ve come to accept the playoffs, the tweaks made in 2017 have made them more tolerable. But the one thing I still DESPISE about this format is the one race to determine the champion. It’s not up to me, but if it were up to me, I’d cut the playoff field back down to 12 (this will never happen cuz “wIn AnD uR iN!!!”), eliminate 4 drivers after the first 3 playoff races, eliminate 4 more after the next 3, then have the 4 remaining drivers battle for the championship over the last 4 races: one short track, one intermediate, one superspeedway, and one road course.
 

Snappy D

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I actually wouldn’t want to go back to the season long points to determine the champion. Sure, sometimes it would manufacture a great scenario like in 1992, but more often than not we pretty much knew who the champion would be by August under that format.

I’ve come to accept the playoffs, the tweaks made in 2017 have made them more tolerable. But the one thing I still DESPISE about this format is the one race to determine the champion. It’s not up to me, but if it were up to me, I’d cut the playoff field back down to 12 (this will never happen cuz “wIn AnD uR iN!!!”), eliminate 4 drivers after the first 3 playoff races, eliminate 4 more after the next 3, then have the 4 remaining drivers battle for the championship over the last 4 races: one short track, one intermediate, one superspeedway, and one road course.
I dont hate this. The pressure cooker that would be the last 4 races that determines the Champion would be insane. Still doing stage points for those final 4?
 

ToyYoda

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I dont hate this. The pressure cooker that would be the last 4 races that determines the Champion would be insane. Still doing stage points for those final 4?
Yeah, I would leave the stage points in place. One thing I like about the stage points is that falling out of a race late due to circumstances beyond your control wouldn’t completely screw you if you had a dominant car early.
 

SpeedPagan

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Yeah, I would leave the stage points in place. One thing I like about the stage points is that falling out of a race late due to circumstances beyond your control wouldn’t completely screw you if you had a dominant car early.

That's fine and good, I just don't see the need for the caution. I have to believe that NASCAR has the technology to get the top 10 at the end of each stage without stopping the racing action.
 
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