jws926
I need to think of something new for here
The gap between the haves and have not has grown to be pretty damn big gap these days.
The Elephant in The Room
- Thread starter SpeedPagan
- Start date
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Probably the only sport that I can think of that fans worry that owners are spending too much. I figure that's what they have accountants for. Maybe that's just me?
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Nah, fans in other sports complain too, mostly about the size of player contracts. I agree that's the owners' problems.
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
LOL, that is like saying it is the doctor's fault because he discovered you were ill. Your comment on commercials is a red herring as commercial spots will always be full on TV broadcasts but that tells nothing of what the advertisers paid to air the spot. I understand that Nascar has a lot of duplicate commercials and some even occur in the same break which is indicative of the spots essentially being given away.....but you already knew this.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
- Messages
- 39,065
- Points
- 1,033
Yes, I already knew that and said so in post # 29.
I have no sympathy for Fox or NBC.
I have no sympathy for Fox or NBC.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
'Parity' that's the word that is killing Nascar. Fans think they want it and have got Nascar striving to achieve it . Of course, they never can achieve it , no other racing series has it and it really never was a part of Nascar racing. I know , you don't think fans want it , but look a the ratings fans give races with little passing and many cars going laps down . That is old style Nascar
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
The series is failing because young people don't give a ratsass about cars or traditional American motorsports. Recently I stopped into a good size car show and it might as well have been an AARP get together as the only people there were old folks displaying old cars being admired by old people.
Brian France is guilty of a lot of things but it isn't his fault that young men don't have the same level of interest in cars or motorsports as previous generations did. What you say about changing downforce is 100% correct as the people Nascar needs to attract don't know what downforce is and don't care to know. All the gimmicks do is agitate the remaining fan base because young people don't tune out Nascar because they have never tuned in to begin with.
Nascar will always be around in some form but it destined to become like Indy Car which is relevant 1 afternoon a year......for now.
Zerkfitting
Team Owner
The axiom in motorsports is "Money buys speed". There will always be teams with more resources than the competition. NASCAR tries to balance the rules to level the playing field so no team wins everything (such as Petty/Pearson; F1). NASCAR has had to become more of a spec series because teams with money have forced that evolution. Four cars on the lead lap was closer to the norm back in the day.
"Engineering, Research and Development"
That's what gives you an edge to help you win. Get behind and what happens? Ask Richard Petty. You can't reduce engineering or R&D because racers need it to go faster, and they always want to go faster. But you can manage its cost somewhat. Still, when the stakes are high (million dollar championships and millions of dollars in sponsorships) serious players know that they have to spend money to make money.
"a driver can only be as good as their equipment will allow them to be"
It takes exceptional talent to overcome lacking equipment. Usually it's in the driver, but it helps to have it in the crew too. But heck, even Dale Earnhardt couldn't carry a car to a win every time.
"I don't believe that NASCAR is serious about cost cutting in the Cup Series."
I tend to agree, because if NASCAR really was serious about cost cutting then we wouldn't need the Race Team Alliance (for example).
"Nascar can only use tools like tighter rules on body measurements , taller spoilers , smaller restrictor plates ."
Every new rule brings associated costs. There is engineering and R&D used to exploit or at least maximize performance under the rule, as well as reworking and disposing of obsoleted parts. And NASCAR officials need new tools to look for conformance, as well as training to use those tools properly.
"many members here at R-F believe Nascar's path to happiness and success would have been to remain forever in 1985"
That's just you young folks. Old-timers would rather return to the 1960s (or even older) - where most of the chassis and engine design still is today, BTW.
"No post race inspections."
So whatever you can do to the car during the race is okay? What an advantage for certain teams!
"CEO hired by the owners"
Oh no! That's what killed CART.
"Money has always ruled racing. But these days the teams with the cash are more dominant than ever. You used to occasionally see a midpack team hit on a setup and compete for a win."
True. The problem point is more in the price of entry than it is in the price of continual improvement.
"NASCAR is not stock car racing"
NASCAR now seems to stand for "No Actual Street Cars Are Represented".
"But at least in the past it was possible for an average team to win a race."
To win you have to be above average. Maybe have a little luck too. It's always been that way. Money can be beaten by sweat, brains and talent. But do you have enough?
“'Parity' that's the word that is killing Nascar. Fans think they want it and have got Nascar striving to achieve it . Of course, they never can achieve it , no other racing series has it and it really never was a part of Nascar racing. I know , you don't think fans want it , but look a the ratings fans give races with little passing and many cars going laps down . That is old style Nascar”
Yep, and it goes against a racer’s instincts. They would rather lap the field than put on a good show.
“young people don't give a ratsass about cars or traditional American motorsports”
Actually I know several youngsters who are big fans of both. But they’ve had older folks who demonstrated it to them. Maybe so many races broadcast on TV has sterilized the product because TV can’t convey the full effect. But we can help too – take a youngster to a car show or a race and try to have fun. Let them drive your hot rod or take a few laps at a local track. Racing hooks people via the experience, and you can’t get that experience by sitting on your living room couch watching TV.
That's what gives you an edge to help you win. Get behind and what happens? Ask Richard Petty. You can't reduce engineering or R&D because racers need it to go faster, and they always want to go faster. But you can manage its cost somewhat. Still, when the stakes are high (million dollar championships and millions of dollars in sponsorships) serious players know that they have to spend money to make money.
"a driver can only be as good as their equipment will allow them to be"
It takes exceptional talent to overcome lacking equipment. Usually it's in the driver, but it helps to have it in the crew too. But heck, even Dale Earnhardt couldn't carry a car to a win every time.
"I don't believe that NASCAR is serious about cost cutting in the Cup Series."
I tend to agree, because if NASCAR really was serious about cost cutting then we wouldn't need the Race Team Alliance (for example).
"Nascar can only use tools like tighter rules on body measurements , taller spoilers , smaller restrictor plates ."
Every new rule brings associated costs. There is engineering and R&D used to exploit or at least maximize performance under the rule, as well as reworking and disposing of obsoleted parts. And NASCAR officials need new tools to look for conformance, as well as training to use those tools properly.
"many members here at R-F believe Nascar's path to happiness and success would have been to remain forever in 1985"
That's just you young folks. Old-timers would rather return to the 1960s (or even older) - where most of the chassis and engine design still is today, BTW.
"No post race inspections."
So whatever you can do to the car during the race is okay? What an advantage for certain teams!
"CEO hired by the owners"
Oh no! That's what killed CART.
"Money has always ruled racing. But these days the teams with the cash are more dominant than ever. You used to occasionally see a midpack team hit on a setup and compete for a win."
True. The problem point is more in the price of entry than it is in the price of continual improvement.
"NASCAR is not stock car racing"
NASCAR now seems to stand for "No Actual Street Cars Are Represented".
"But at least in the past it was possible for an average team to win a race."
To win you have to be above average. Maybe have a little luck too. It's always been that way. Money can be beaten by sweat, brains and talent. But do you have enough?
“'Parity' that's the word that is killing Nascar. Fans think they want it and have got Nascar striving to achieve it . Of course, they never can achieve it , no other racing series has it and it really never was a part of Nascar racing. I know , you don't think fans want it , but look a the ratings fans give races with little passing and many cars going laps down . That is old style Nascar”
Yep, and it goes against a racer’s instincts. They would rather lap the field than put on a good show.
“young people don't give a ratsass about cars or traditional American motorsports”
Actually I know several youngsters who are big fans of both. But they’ve had older folks who demonstrated it to them. Maybe so many races broadcast on TV has sterilized the product because TV can’t convey the full effect. But we can help too – take a youngster to a car show or a race and try to have fun. Let them drive your hot rod or take a few laps at a local track. Racing hooks people via the experience, and you can’t get that experience by sitting on your living room couch watching TV.
Mispeedway15
Team Owner
- Joined
- May 22, 2016
- Messages
- 4,975
- Points
- 443
I think a lot of it is in your blood too. For me I've always been obsessed with speed, so to watch these guys with such precision is truly a joy