The "R & D for the Chase" Excuse...

LewTheShoe

LewTheShoe

Seeking Skill-based Meritocracy... More HP Less DF
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I don't buy the often-repeated excuse for poor performance in the dog days of summer that the team is conducting R & D to prepare for the Chase, when results mean more. You hear this often from fans, and every now and then from the teams themselves. But I don't believe it for one second. It is an empty rationalization, IMO. Your thoughts?
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't buy the often-repeated excuse for poor performance in the dog days of summer that the team is conducting R & D to prepare for the Chase, when results mean more. You hear this often from fans, and every now and then from the teams themselves. But I don't believe it for one second. It is an empty rationalization, IMO. Your thoughts?
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I believe it.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't buy the often-repeated excuse for poor performance in the dog days of summer that the team is conducting R & D to prepare for the Chase, when results mean more. You hear this often from fans, and every now and then from the teams themselves. But I don't believe it for one second. It is an empty rationalization, IMO. Your thoughts?
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I don't buy it either.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't buy the often-repeated excuse for poor performance in the dog days of summer that the team is conducting R & D to prepare for the Chase, when results mean more. You hear this often from fans, and every now and then from the teams themselves. But I don't believe it for one second. It is an empty rationalization, IMO. Your thoughts?
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It seems that the "experimental" stuff never works
 
I believe that teams who don't think they have a great shot of winning the pre-Chase race do indeed use the races for R&D. It might not be their original intent, but if practice and qualifying doesn't go very well I think many teams change their strategy and begin to focus on the next race at that track in the Chase.

Let's say the 48 team is at the Martinsville spring race. Before they get there, they intend on winning. However, they may only be around 25th in all the practice and qualifying sessions. After qualifying they might look to experiment with stuff throughout the race in order to prepare for the Chase, with winning coming secondary. For a team that might lead all the practice and qualifying sessions, I don't believe for a second that they are using the race to prepare for the Chase unless they already have multiple wins under their belt and are securely locked-in.
 
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I can see both sides on not buying and buying it, but with winning and your in, teams can afford to use a couple races now for "testing" or R&D work and not have to worry.
 
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I believe JJ is strongly motivated to get 94 wins (as well as another one or two championships). Only way is to bag every win possible, and squander no opportunities.

I believe BKez is driven to win more races per year than other drivers, especially Kyle Busch. Versus number of starts, he is currently 2 wins behind Busch's pace, and he is driven to close that gap.

I believe JoLo feels that now is the time to make up for his disappointing early (Gibbs) years. He is in the Chase, but not content.

If Harvick is conducting R & D experiments, they must all be working because he seems to have the fastest car every week.
 
Sponsors want wins. This has to be addressed. Do teams who are in the Chase experiment? Maybe, but I do not believe that it is like wholesale from left field type of changes/tests. Part by part...maybe a set up direction, etc. Do I believe that experimentation is the reason why my TRD powered Toyotas haven't won in almost a month? NO. I do not believe this to be the reason. Teams have caught up. Rule changes have forced set up changes. Great thread BTW, @LewTheShoe.
 
^^ And Harvick wants to win every time he goes out there. So does everybody else. Bonus Chase points awarded for I mid-season victory could be the deciding factor in getting out of the first round.

Given the tight boxes teams work in, what kinds of things would be considered on-track R and D? Top teams work aero and chassis developments out in the wind tunnel, in simulation and on shakers. They know what they've got before they leave the shop. Same thing with engine development ... worked out on engine and chassis dynamometers with full race runs.

Want to go fast? How much money have you got?
 
Look at how Jimmie Johnson suddenly turned it up in the Chase or even late in the summer during his reign of dominance.

I think teams who lock themselves in the Chase do try some different things in the summer months. Or they try to not show their hand for when the Chase starts.

For several years, there were threads that popped up every summer proclaiming Jimmie Johnson finished and saying his dominance was over. Four months later, he was hosting the Cup.
 
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It happens for sure. Jimmie did it 6 different times and won the championship. Look at last year, Jarvik was the first or second fastest car every single race last season. Then at Richmond a meaningless race for him he finishes 15th a lap down lol. Then next race he's fastest car yet again and top 5's his way to homestead.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
It happens for sure. Jimmie did it 6 different times and won the championship. Look at last year, Jarvik was the first or second fastest car every single race last season. Then at Richmond a meaningless race for him he finishes 15th a lap down lol. Then next race he's fastest car yet again and top 5's his way to homestead.
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Pfffffttt. Which Chase track was his experimental Richmond car preparing his team for?
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't buy the often-repeated excuse for poor performance in the dog days of summer that the team is conducting R & D to prepare for the Chase, when results mean more. You hear this often from fans, and every now and then from the teams themselves. But I don't believe it for one second. It is an empty rationalization, IMO. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Can anyone imagine a sit down meeting with Budweiser or Lowes to explain why you have decided that the car they sponsor is not being given the best equipment because you want someone else to win ? Please . Only in the world of black helicopters , is it possible to make cars into R&D projects and hide it from their sponsors . Of course , that may also explain the number of sponsors that are leaving the sport .
 
It's a lazy excuse the fans make.

They absolutely do try stuff, but they don't completely swing in the dark and sacrifice being competitive to do so for 3 months of the year. Cause wouldn't that be a wake-up call that "hey, what we're trying here isn't helping us and isn't going to help us"?

These guys are smart enough to "experiment" and have it actually work in their favor at the same time.
 
Every race should be equal. Yet another good point by LEWthe Shoe of the 100s about why the Chase is awful
 
I think that they absolutely experiment during the season. That can lead to failure. That's how they learn to be successful. The current structure of the NASCAR season and lack of off time testing have to lead to experimentation during those first 26 races of the season. Once that Chase spot has been earned by securing a win they'd be foolish not to take chances on setups and the like to gain on their competitors. If they rest on what got them there, they'll be passed up in no time.
 
I can see teams like the 48 that are locked in safely would keep trying different setups and ideas in preparation for the chase. Wouldn't have to be major changes but even minor ones that they think have merit would make sense to try when it doesn't have a major effect. Lowes has been with JJ and Chad long enough that if Chad is doing some experimenting they are going to worry, because they've seen them come out when it is money time.
 
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One needs to look no further than the 2010 season to see if teams expirement during the summer. That year both Jimmie Johnson and Denny Hamlin had 5 wins apiece by the end of June, then both drivers proceeded to go MIA in July and August. Denny sandbagged it so bad in those two months that he damn near missed the chase, but won at Richmond to secure his spot.

But then the chase starts and, lo and behold, Jimmie and Denny end up being the best two drivers once again.
 
I think the teams with a win and secure will try more radical things prior to the chase. Stuff they wouldn't try if there was a real point system.
So yes, I believe the R&D mindset is a reality for them.

Only gotta have a win and be better than the lower 25% in points.
Aside from Piece of Sheet motorsports any team should be able to be p30 or better point wise.
 
Kiante said:
It proves that the new developments work.
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IMO new developments are often blamed, but seldom given credit. Top secret until it doesn't work.

It would be cool if one of these former crew chiefs who have taken to broadcasting would go into detail with what exactly these experimental developments are.
 
Not dumb at all.

Last time I asked, there were over 50 possible front spindle combinations available, a different 4 shock combination for every track on the schedule and front / rear pickup point differences as small as 1/16th of an inch from one chassis to the next. Current aero development is being done under the car ... inner fender and crush panels and NASCAR just issued very restrictive drawing updates for those.

After 9 years with this basic chassis, the envelope is pretty well filled.
 
Brad Keselowski's latest blog includes comments close to this topic, and reveals Brad's view of the legitimacy of the championship format:

It’s very easy to get baited into saving yourself, saving your car, saving your team for the Chase, but I don’t feel right about that. I feel I need to push the whole time. I feel good about myself as a person and race car driver when I push hard the whole year, and my goal, of course, is to win the championship. But that doesn’t mean I’m going lay up and not go for race wins because they don’t mean as much this time of year.

In fact, to me—at least in one way— race wins mean everything.

Even though we didn’t win the championship again in 2014, it felt like another championship season to me. It felt good in my heart. I’ve always subscribed to the belief that in motorsports, especially when you add in all these special rules with respect to playoffs, the Chase, and the randomness that can go with it, the only way you can really tell who the best team was is who had the most wins. In motorsports, you compete against everybody every week. That’s totally different from every other sport. There are no hollow or easy wins.

The year reminds me a lot of 2012 and 2014. I feel like we’re having a championship caliber season. I’m going to do everything I can to win my second championship, but no matter what happens, the driver who wins the most races— whether it’s me or someone else—will be the best driver, as far as I’m concerned.
 
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