The Saga of Chris Gabehart

... And if you think you can compare a RCR car against a Gibbs rice burner and say that they are even close to equal, knock yourself out. Somebody might believe ya, but it won't be me.
I believe that the driver of the 8 needs to share in the accountability for the car's poor performance. Chris Gabehart wanted the same for the driver of the 54. But Pious Joe feels Ty Gibbs is above reproach. And you believe Kyle Busch is above reproach because he won a truck race. OK, there we have it... after all these years, we have an instance of Preacher Joe and SOI believing in the same thing at the same time. :idunno:
 
My personal opinion... all the talk about RCR cars and setups are junk relative to Gibbs, and that's why Kyle Busch resembles Mr. Irrelevant for the last 3+ years, is lazy analysis that way, way understates the driver's role in the speed and performance of the team. Kyle Busch would love for that excuse to be valid, but it just isn't, IMO.
I think it’s an interesting question to ask how Kyle would be running in the 18 if he stayed vs how Ty Gibbs is running currently in the the renumbered 54. Would Kyle be 2014-16 Kyle Busch, probably not. Age plays a factor in that. But I also don’t think he’s as bad as what he’s been at RCR, they’re not good. Sorry to say, but they haven’t run well since Kyle won his 3 races in his first year there. It’s not lazy to say I don’t think the team gives him cars that have speed and performance in them, I think you have a combination of a driver most likely falling off his prime but can still produce in the right equipment prepared by the right people and a team that doesn’t have good enough people to prepare equipment for not only an aging driver but most likely a driver who could even compete at his peak. Look at the Harvick years there, many many roller coaster years.

I don’t think it’s as cut and dry to place blame solely on Kyle here. I also am starting to come around that he might have aged out of being that guy he was in the 18 and he’s not coming back anytime soon. My point being is that engineer, crew member, team wise I’d still give the edge to JGR here in a big way over RCR, and I’d bet if Kyle were still there they’d at least be in the 10-12 range of the Chase Grid. Currently better than they’re getting from the Grand son.
 
Like duh, when preacher killed a competing team by first ripping away their pit crew and when that didn't work tripling how much it would cost to be an affiliate you would think that would be a first clue. Eh, maybe they could figure it out the second time, when he obviously sabotages Corey Heims career? But no, now we have the admirals barge car that nobody touches but the preacher who's driver shows up or not whenever it suits him and of course on top of it all, the whole shebang is managed by a committee.
Welcome to the asylum.
So, now you have the financials on Furniture Row? Three times? More smoke out the ass. You sure like Heim. There are a ton of promising drivers who aren't driving anymore nor have they ever had a shot. He is far from a lock. Bad business but Coach lost both of his boys.....protecting his pain in the ass, spoiled, entitled grandson is probably understandable. Gabehart should have understood that if you **** with a guy's family, you probably won't win---particularly if that guy owns the joint. Again, this isn't good business, and isn't fair, but figure it out. You don't walk in as a new Competition Director, and start running your mouth about nepotism that has been there ever since your first day. Gabehart paints a picture like he was forced to be at JGR. bull****. He knew what he was getting into, and thought that he was such a pocket protector stud that he could change it because all of a sudden, no team can win without him. I think that the smug ass pictures of him in his Spire **** at the St. Petersburg event tells the tale. Did he steal ****? Probably. Will JGR be able to prove it? We shall see.
 
I think its safe to say Ty Dillon is trending toward bust, the body of work and there is enough of a sample size of it now to suggest its trending heavily that way. Would Preacher Joe have been better off keeping Kyle Busch? Salary had alot to do with the split and "sponsorship woes" but would JGR be better off with Kyle or Ty in the 18/54, I think honestly if Kyle had stayed he would have a better performance than what he has shown at RCR lately and what Ty has shown. Kyle really should have been a lifer at JGR but the Preacher after praying heavily, takes his older drivers out back and gives them the old yeller treatment.
Kyle might have had a couple of wins--maybe. I think it is pretty conclusive that he cannot drive the Nest Gen. Period. Ty had more of an upside....and still does. All of the **** that he brings upon himself keeps him from realizing it. Will that change? The infrastructure around him enables him. If Coy was here, it would be a different story 100%, but he is not so who knows? Ty absolutely has the talent to be very good--maybe elite--but right now he isn't in the best place to fulfill that. Honestly, he needs another team with an infrastructure that holds his ass accountable....might be too late for that, but I don't know.
 
Chris Gabehart wanted the same for the driver of the 54.
I don't believe that. I think Gabehart was pissed because he couldn't change what has been there forever because his ego led him to believe that JGR would fall apart without him. He went after the owner's grandson a couple of years after the owner tragically lost the second of his two sons....and probably pissed the daughter-in-law off in the process. His transactional logic didn't work here. Stupid. I have read Coach's books....he surrounds himself with people who he has personal relationships with--this isn't new. What he is doing with Ty is not a shock to anyone....yet Gabehart signed on the dotted line. Why? Because I am Chris ****** Gabehart, and I am the guy who will change everything. Wrong. FAFO. We shall see.
 
I think it’s an interesting question to ask how Kyle would be running in the 18 if he stayed vs how Ty Gibbs is running currently in the the renumbered 54. Would Kyle be 2014-16 Kyle Busch, probably not. Age plays a factor in that. But I also don’t think he’s as bad as what he’s been at RCR, they’re not good. Sorry to say, but they haven’t run well since Kyle won his 3 races in his first year there. It’s not lazy to say I don’t think the team gives him cars that have speed and performance in them, I think you have a combination of a driver most likely falling off his prime but can still produce in the right equipment prepared by the right people and a team that doesn’t have good enough people to prepare equipment for not only an aging driver but most likely a driver who could even compete at his peak. Look at the Harvick years there, many many roller coaster years.

I don’t think it’s as cut and dry to place blame solely on Kyle here. I also am starting to come around that he might have aged out of being that guy he was in the 18 and he’s not coming back anytime soon. My point being is that engineer, crew member, team wise I’d still give the edge to JGR here in a big way over RCR, and I’d bet if Kyle were still there they’d at least be in the 10-12 range of the Chase Grid. Currently better than they’re getting from the Grand son.
Kyle re-upped with RCR. Let's remember that. Why? Because nobody else wants him. Why? It's pretty clear isn't? So damn funny that ever since Kyle went to RCR, many of the Us-es have been making excuses for him--even celebrating a truck win. Makes me laugh every time.
 
It has never occurred to me that Kyle’s slump in performance was anything other than equipment related.
You are not alone. Lots of people think that same way. It is what I referred to as lazy analysis, and it understates the driver's role in total team performance. I believe the driver deserves a substantial share of accountability for elite performance (KDB's career up to about 2020) and also a substantial share of accountability for the generally mediocre performance since then. And Ty Gibbs also deserves to be held accountable for a share of the 54 car's performance. Joe Gibbs and Heather Gibbs are doing that young man no favors.
 
You are not alone. Lots of people think that same way. It is what I referred to as lazy analysis, and it understates the driver's role in total team performance. I believe the driver deserves a substantial share of accountability for elite performance (KDB's career up to about 2020) and also a substantial share of accountability for the generally mediocre performance since then. And Ty Gibbs also deserves to be held accountable for a share of the 54 car's performance. Joe Gibbs and Heather Gibbs are doing that young man no favors.
Then there are those who use the half ass analysis system and they assume that all the teams and vehicles are the same, have the same personnel talent pool and that means all things should be equal. So they base their theories, WAG's (wild ass guesses) or whatever they call them on thin air while ignoring the obvious.
 
Then there are those who use the half ass analysis system and 1. they assume that all the teams and vehicles are the same, have 2. the same personnel talent pool and that means all things should be equal. So they base their theories, WAG's (wild ass guesses) or whatever they call them on thin air while ignoring the obvious.
1. They are the same.
2. The talent pool is not the same.
 
You are not alone. Lots of people think that same way. It is what I referred to as lazy analysis, and it understates the driver's role in total team performance. I believe the driver deserves a substantial share of accountability for elite performance (KDB's career up to about 2020) and also a substantial share of accountability for the generally mediocre performance since then. And Ty Gibbs also deserves to be held accountable for a share of the 54 car's performance. Joe Gibbs and Heather Gibbs are doing that young man no favors.
Well, let's test that theory then.
Lets look at Tyler Reddick's record before RCR, during RCR and what has miraculously happened since he went to 23XI.
While we are at it. Let's look at Kevin Harvick's record at RCR, same team as above, and what happened when he went to SHR and met Rodney Childers.?
One more for $hits and grins, lets look at Chase Briscoe at SHR and what happened when he started driving for JGR.
So when people say these drivers are driving a better car, they aren't being lazy, they have eyes.
 
Lol! They all get the same parts and pieces, but how they are put together are vastly different. So Tyler could jump in the RWR and win?
How are you going to put them together differently when they all mount the same and if you modify them you get the death penalty? What I'm telling you is the difference is using the shocks and springs etc that you actually can change, that where the engineers come in, if they are better at figuring it out, that's your difference.
 
How are you going to put them together differently when they all mount the same and if you modify them you get the death penalty? What I'm telling you is the difference is using the shocks and springs etc that you actually can change, that where the engineers come in, if they are better at figuring it out, that's your difference.
So you're saying they put them together differently then? :owquitit:
 
So you're saying they put them together differently then? :owquitit:
What is it you that dont understand? They all have the same car bud, they can use setups to make them different. They all have the same uppers, lowers, spindles etc.. Cant help you if you don't get it.
 
What is it you that dont understand? They all have the same car bud, they can use setups to make them different. They all have the same uppers, lowers, spindles etc.. Cant help you if you don't get it.
Here’s my honest question; due to the slight differences in aero template or other factors due to manufacturer, how would any Toyota data help a Chevy team? Granted Gibbs team could be concerned about any info being disseminated outside their organization that could get back to another Toyota team. But just seriously doubt Gabehart stole anything. They’ve opened themselves to full audit. Seems like more emotional angst from the family translating into revenge greed.
 
What is it you that dont understand? They all have the same car bud, they can use setups to make them different. They all have the same uppers, lowers, spindles etc.. Cant help you if you don't get it

Here’s my honest question; due to the slight differences in aero template or other factors due to manufacturer, how would any Toyota data help a Chevy team? Granted Gibbs team could be concerned about any info being disseminated outside their organization that could get back to another Toyota team. But just seriously doubt Gabehart stole anything. They’ve opened themselves to full audit. Seems like more emotional angst from the family translating into revenge greed.
I'll get back with you after the race. Enjoy!
 
:p

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Gabehart is much higher than he was at Gibbs. Spire has all kinds of teams. Indycar, High Limit, Nascar, I think GT series maybe IMSA and he is over all of them.
 
Gabehart is much higher than he was at Gibbs. Spire has all kinds of teams. Indycar, High Limit, Nascar, I think GT series maybe IMSA and he is over all of them.
Well at least his title is....

I didn't see anything on the Spire website or Wikipedia showing any results outside of Nascar?
 
Well at least his title is....

I didn't see anything on the Spire website or Wikipedia showing any results outside of Nascar?

TWG Motorsports' portfolio comprises five motorsports organizations: Andretti Global, TWG Cadillac Formula 1 Team Ltd., Spire Motorsports, Walkinshaw TWG Racing, and Wayne Taylor Racing.
 
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