Time to look at playoff format?

jaqua19

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07 while not a game 7 moment was a heavyweight title fight between two behemoths
Gordon won two races, had 9 top 10s, and an average finish of 5.1 during that chase. Johnson had an average finish of 5.0, won his 4 races and squeaked by Gordon comfortably.

Without question the highest level two championship drivers have performed at. Based on points, Gordon's run there would have been good enough for a championship virtually every other year outside of like..5 seasons.

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OldTimer

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1 point for leading the most laps
1 point for leading a lap

50 points for the win
39 for 2nd
38 for 3rd
37 for 4th
36 for 5th


2 for 39th
1 for 40th

That was the problem with the Latford System was the lack of points given for winning the race.
I did not consider that a problem. Many a time a driver was counted out as being able to win the championship only to come back and win it on the last lap of the last race. If I recall, Kulwicki was a 100 to1 shot with six races to go and won the championship at the last race of the season. Cannot do that with present format.
 

Hotrod

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Looks like Harvick could have had 3 or 4 more championships on the old points system.
When I was a lot younger , I always hated when the Champion had the title sewn up
up with 2 or 3 races to go. Guess I never changed. Hence I like how the game is played now.

This is a pretty good recap on the old (what coulda been) points structure.
 

AuzGrams

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Harvick has never been one of my Favorite 4 but I have a soft spot for him since
2001. I was in the stands at Atlanta in 2001 when he won in Sr's car. Wasnt a
dry eye in the place, Elliott fans included.

I like Harvick and still do sometimes but other times he acts younger than his age lately. He seemed like he had this huge ship on his shoulder after Richmond and thru the playoffs. Just an unbiased opinion.
 

SpeedPagan

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Honestly, I think it's time to retire the playoff/chase format. It was formed to create interest, increase viewership, and bring in more fans. Aside from memorable moments like the Hail Melon @ Martinsville, it objectively failed at the metrics I listed. It's time to make the entire season mean something again.
 

Charlie Spencer

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What happens if there are three different winners? Flip for it?
Award points for each race, the same as any other. The eligible driver with the most points over that three-race stretch is the champ.

Start with 12 drivers instead of 16, for 9 races instead of 10. Cut to 8 after 3 races, cut to 4 after the 6th. Last 4 drivers compete for total points over the last three races. Three races aren't enough for any one driver to lock up the title before the end, and probably not enough for more than one of them to be mathematically eliminated.

Maybe a 3-race finale would eliminate letting the last four drivers from being permitted to run cars clearly not meeting the same inspection standards as the rest of the field in the last race.
 

donthaveanickname

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I’ve never seen anyone actually yelling at a cloud. What is that supposed to do?
It's a Simpsons meme.
IMG_20221203_121956.jpg
 

Charlie Spencer

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I’ve never seen anyone actually yelling at a cloud. What is that supposed to do?
The implication is we're wasting our time, complaining about something that can't change.

Repeatedly pointing it out is itself a form of wasted posting. Besides, isn't complaining about stuff one of the reasons we get on the Internet in the first place?
 

cheesepuffs

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The implication is we're wasting our time, complaining about something that can't change.

Repeatedly pointing it out is itself a form of wasted posting. Besides, isn't complaining about stuff of the reasons we get on the Internet in the first place?
Repeatedly complaining about complaining is another form of it.
 

wi_racefan

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IMO there's no doubt this system is full of gimmicks that have the potential to keep from crowning a true champion. But I don't think it will be changed anytime soon because let's be honest nascar doesn't care about fans like us in this forum. No matter how dumb the format the vast majority of us are just race fans and will watch it anyway.

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Ol Smokie

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Harvick has never been one of my Favorite 4 but I have a soft spot for him since
2001. I was in the stands at Atlanta in 2001 when he won in Sr's car. Wasnt a
dry eye in the place, Elliott fans included.
He probably entered the cup series under more pressure than any other driver, before or since. HUGE shoes to fill.
 

StandOnIt

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Award points for each race, the same as any other. The eligible driver with the most points over that three-race stretch is the champ.

Start with 12 drivers instead of 16, for 9 races instead of 10. Cut to 8 after 3 races, cut to 4 after the 6th. Last 4 drivers compete for total points over the last three races. Three races aren't enough for any one driver to lock up the title before the end, and probably not enough for more than one of them to be mathematically eliminated.

Maybe a 3-race finale would eliminate letting the last four drivers from being permitted to run cars clearly not meeting the same inspection standards as the rest of the field in the last race.
I hear ya, but like every other playoff post you can always find the flaw. What about Elliott leading one of the final races and somebody takes him out? What is the solution then, have a 5 race playoff, 6? It just seems to never end. The current playoff system is thought of as a mess by most long time Nascar fans. There have been numerous different changes to the playoffs posted by many on here at the forum and other places. Hambone doesn't have a monopoly. Going way back in years before the playoff's started, fans were arguing about the unfairness of the points system, it awarded too many points or too little points for this or that, on and on.

P.S. I do like whiner Hambone making excuses for getting his ass beat when watermelon went full turbo at Matrinsville.
 

Charlie Spencer

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I hear ya, but like every other playoff post you can always find the flaw.
Don't get me wrong, I 100% support a season-long total points championship, always have, always will. My post #262 was my response to Denny's suggestion for the title to be based on more than a single final race. As long as we're stuck with playoff rounds, three rounds of 12 / 8 / 4 (or even 15 / 10 / 5) ('regular season' points leader automatically advances to the final round) would be my preference.
 

StandOnIt

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Don't get me wrong, I 100% support a season-long total points championship, always have, always will. My post #262 was my response to Denny's suggestion for the title to be based on more than a single final race. As long as we're stuck with playoff rounds, three rounds of 12 / 8 / 4 (or even 15 / 10 / 5) ('regular season' points leader automatically advances to the final round) would be my preference.
I agree with a year long system also. A year long points system would still draw tweakers re doing the points system to suit their tastes. The more social media outlets there are, the more fans will continue to micro manage the sport. Pretty sure Nascar has figured that out long ago, so they do stuff and don't explain it because most of the time it doesn't solve anything, just brings out more chaos and confusion lol. They announce changes and watch heads explode.
O/T
They had an after season questionnaire specifically about NBC announcing. I don't think they will sell the gerbils to the pet store but I got my licks in. Reddit types seem to love NBC's style that copies stick n ball yelling and screaming fake drama and most of the twitter posts seem ok with it so I will be surprised if anything changes, they probably will amp it up lol.
 

SpeedPagan

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NGL, I thought The Chase/Playoff format would've been tossed out the same time Brian France was tossed out. I guess I was wrong.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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I’ve always thought if nascar changed back to the full season points system, the pendulum would swing to those complaining that they liked the playoffs, and I’d say there’s probably a fair share of fans who enjoy it because let’s be honest it’s been 19 years since something like this has been in effect. I’ve given up that fight, I miss a season long championship because it rewarded consistency and the full body of work that is the marathon of auto racing. But it’s not coming back, NASCAR and more importantly the TV Networks are far too deep in with it. Might as well try to make the best of it as a fan.
 

Turtle84

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I still hold out hope that one day they might come to their senses, but I have largely resigned my efforts of yelling at that brick wall, they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do at this point, you just hope they realize it. I do wish it wasn’t at the expense of jobbing driver’s out of championships that would otherwise have more if it was a true reflection of a full season, that’s why I’ll be looking at career cup wins as more important than championships won down the road, statistically speaking.

This was the most “non-playoffy 4” Phoenix race we’ve seen yet with non-playoff driver’s up front, and we still wound up with the late yellow and the fastest car on the track Blaney sandbagging it ready to run interference on Chastain for a playoff 4 teammate Logano just in case, in no world other than a playoff manipulated 100% rule would that have gone down, Blaney really took one for the team Penske there by not putting them at risk passing for the lead, real team player stuff, but MAN when you haven’t won a race all year, I would have had to say bump all that noise and passed him for the win, deal with the 1 race “championship” on your own there Logano and hope he gets 2nd place. Tip of the cap to the Blaney, he better than I.

All that said, I’ve learned to enjoy the playoffs for what it is over the years, some sometimes good entertainment with the NBC crew. NASCAR knows the hardcore aren’t going anywhere, they do this for the casuals who seem to like it, maybe they would like a full season format EVEN MORE. What doesn’t get factored is the turnover of casuals how many casuals would have turned into the devoted had they not been enlightened to the farce of the format? I whole heartedly believe the positives of real legitimacy would outweigh any end season scenario. For real growth to occur there has to be a level of actual legitimacy that creates actual care over a prolonged period of time, hence full season.
 

StandOnIt

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If there were concrete indications that NBC's attempt to turn Nascar into a football game were working it would be a different story. They are doing their best to convince fair weather fans that there will be a photo finish with every race. Slow times in the race? yell louder. And the cut off race. Spending half the race and their mouthing focused on the dragging ass cut off loser car while meanwhile up at the front this is where the race is doesn't work unless it is a crowd favorite. That doesn't happen often but that doesn't matter to the gerbil format. Pretty easy to see where all this is going. The ratings compared to the non gerbil part of the season don't show any dramatic increase attributed to the playoffs. Smoke and mirrors are doing little if anything to advance the sport but it makes the sport look like a clown show and a cheap imitation comparing itself to football.
 

Mispeedway15

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If there were concrete indications that NBC's attempt to turn Nascar into a football game were working it would be a different story. They are doing their best to convince fair weather fans that there will be a photo finish with every race. Slow times in the race? yell louder. And the cut off race. Spending half the race and their mouthing focused on the dragging ass cut off loser car while meanwhile up at the front this is where the race is doesn't work unless it is a crowd favorite. That doesn't happen often but that doesn't matter to the gerbil format. Pretty easy to see where all this is going. The ratings compared to the non gerbil part of the season don't show any dramatic increase attributed to the playoffs. Smoke and mirrors are doing little if anything to advance the sport but it makes the sport look like a clown show and a cheap imitation comparing itself to football.
Well said. Personally don't know why we aren't doing the Chase anymore, I really enjoyed that 10 race format. The only thing really improved by this current format is the insanity at Martinsville has gone way up for that race
 

Turtle84

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that’s why I’ll be looking at career cup wins as more important than championships won down the road, statistically speaking.

"you got yourself a hell of a statistician there, does he know anything about race cars?" - Rowdy Burns Crew Chief
 

StandOnIt

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But overall, it’s hard not to argue that Elliott had the statistically best year. He led the series in wins, laps led, average finish, average running position and percent quality passes. If his playoffs had been comparable to his regular season, he would have taken the trophy.

Dr Diandra: The best driver of 2022​


 
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