Tireghazi

F1- a car can crash, pull 3 feet off the track, and the driver can get out and walk away while other cars go 150mph next to him.

NASCAR- a tire can get loose and be in a spot that a car won't travel over in 500 Kansas races but there needs to be a caution to go get it.
 
The tire needed to be removed immediately or it should have been left alone until the next natural caution event occurred.

I think Nascar believed they were being fair by letting the green flag pit cycle complete itself first. But that goal was impossible and it resulted in punishing those who had not pitted when Nascar decided to delay their response.
I don't think Nascar wanted to pick the winners and losers and I think it would be wrong to make the claim, but the net result or impact remains.

It isn't a simple job and I am sure they invest more thoyght into it than I am putting into this 3am post. I just wish race race control would be more direct, if it a caution is warranted throw one without messing around.
The urgency of a safety situation should have no regard for messing up or helping anyone's race strategy.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
F1- a car can crash, pull 3 feet off the track, and the driver can get out and walk away while other cars go 150mph next to him.

NASCAR- a tire can get loose and be in a spot that a car won't travel over in 500 Kansas races but there needs to be a caution to go get it.
Click to expand...

The first one honestly makes me nervous every time seen, that's a leak in their safety protocol imo, same as the metal guard rail accident they had last year.

Reason why NASCAR is considered the safest series in motorsports they set the example, NASCAR deviated from that yesterday, they should fix it.
 
if its worthy of a caution, call a caution when it happens

the 47 was out there running out his fuel in hopes of a caution, a caution worthy event happens!
NASCAR says no you just go ahead and pit then we'll throw a caution

manipulation at it finest
 
Somebody needs to explain to me how Buescher trying to stay out was a good move while most of the field had been into the pits and had full fuel and tires? As it was Nascar waited until Buescher came in to get his pit for fuel (that he was running out of) and tires before throwing the yellow. Buescher hadn't short pitted, he had no advantage or strategy staying out when the field had full tanks and four fresh ones. As people should know by now, Nascar tries whenever possible to keep the pits open when cars are in their pit windows.
 
only because I don't know

had a caution been thrown when the tire rolled out, how many cars had not yet pitted?
we know the 17 and at that time how many cars would have been caught a lap down
granted they would have taken the wave around
that would have kept the 17 on lead lap and and with fresh tires

did the 17 get the free pass on that caution or did someone else
 
Team Penske said:
The safety truck could have entered pit road and picked up the tire with no interruption to the race.
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No, it still would require a human to fetch the tire, also if someone had to unexpectedly pit they may be in the way
 
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From Jayski​

NASCAR explains delayed caution at Kansas for Reddick’s tire​






A NASCAR official said that series officials planned to retrieve the errant tire during Sunday’s Cup race at Kansas Speedway, but “we let the strategy unfold” before doing so.

…​

Elton Sawyer, NASCAR vice president of officiating and technical inspection, explained Monday on “The Morning Drive” on SiriusXM NASCAR Radio, why there was a delay in the caution.
“As the tire became uncontrolled, our first decision was ‘Do we have a safety issue?’
“We felt it was far enough away from the racing surface and it also was off pit road. We were in the middle of a green-flag pit stop there, and we want to make sure the teams and their strategies that they have worked up throughout the event, that they’re able to unfold as they played out. We don’t want to get in the middle of that as the league.
“Now, if it’s a bona fide safety issue, then we’ll have to act on that. As I said earlier, the tire was in a position that we didn’t feel like we had a safety issue. We let the strategy unfold, and once everyone had played out their cards there, we knew we had to go get it, it’s just when you do that. We made the decision and felt like (we) had no real issues after that. That was the right decision for both safety and the competition side.”
 
28car said:
only because I don't know

had a caution been thrown when the tire rolled out, how many cars had not yet pitted?
we know the 17 and at that time how many cars would have been caught a lap down
granted they would have taken the wave around
that would have kept the 17 on lead lap and and with fresh tires

did the 17 get the free pass on that caution or did someone else
Click to expand...
Buescher came in before the caution, (that is why Nascar waited), but it wasn't smart to stay out in the first place when others had fresh tires and fuel and were running much faster.
 
I don't see any issue what NASCAR's decision to wait until the pits cycled or the fact that they actually threw a yellow. They had to remove the tire from that area.
 
Spotter22 said:
No, it still would require a human to fetch the tire, also if someone had to unexpectedly pit they may be in the way
Click to expand...
This is racing, remember when cars entered pit road with no speed limit?
Today the speed limit is about the same as a school zone. If you really want it to be that safe maybe just cancel racing altogether. Have you ever seen someone changing a flat tire on the side of the road???? You think someone can't pick up a tire with a full size pickup as protection? Are Nascar drivers that bad??????
 
This situation makes me think of the times drivers have lost control and hit and been places on the various tracks on the circuit, that nobody figured they would ever hit.

They should have took care of the tire right away. Heaven forbid a car get out of wack, as mentioned above, hit the tire and it end up a torpedo into the pits or grandstands.

Racers have been put a lap down numerous times over the years pitting under green and then overcame the situation and worked back to a good finish.
 
StandOnIt said:

From Jayski​

NASCAR explains delayed caution at Kansas for Reddick’s tire​






A NASCAR official said that series officials planned to retrieve the errant tire during Sunday’s Cup race at Kansas Speedway, but “we let the strategy unfold” before doing so.

…​

Elton Sawyer, NASCAR vice president of officiating and technical inspection, explained Monday on “The Morning Drive” on SiriusXM NASCAR Radio, why there was a delay in the caution.
“As the tire became uncontrolled, our first decision was ‘Do we have a safety issue?’
“We felt it was far enough away from the racing surface and it also was off pit road. We were in the middle of a green-flag pit stop there, and we want to make sure the teams and their strategies that they have worked up throughout the event, that they’re able to unfold as they played out. We don’t want to get in the middle of that as the league.
“Now, if it’s a bona fide safety issue, then we’ll have to act on that. As I said earlier, the tire was in a position that we didn’t feel like we had a safety issue. We let the strategy unfold, and once everyone had played out their cards there, we knew we had to go get it, it’s just when you do that. We made the decision and felt like (we) had no real issues after that. That was the right decision for both safety and the competition side.”
Click to expand...
Coughing (bulls**t) coughing...
 
Team Penske said:
This is racing, remember when cars entered pit road with no speed limit?
Today the speed limit is about the same as a school zone. If you really want it to be that safe maybe just cancel racing altogether. Have you ever seen someone changing a flat tire on the side of the road???? You think someone can't pick up a tire with a full size pickup as protection? Are Nascar drivers that bad??????
Click to expand...
Racing has safety rules and regulations and you dont put a service vehicle on a hot race track or pit road, period. Its not what I think its what the insurance companies think and what the race track thinks that pays them enormous amount of money for the coverage. Its not as simple as you think, lots of moving parts behind the scenes you dont know or think about.
 
With the logic of some people, maybe the penalty for a loose tire should be to send the crew member who lost it out under green to retrieve it. Kind of like dodgeball but with cars on pit road. It would definitely make them be more careful catching them. :flushed: :owquitit: :XXROFL: :XXROFL: :XXROFL: :XXROFL: :einstein::crash::puffin:
 
I don’t think they did themselves any favors by saying they didn’t feel like there was a a safety issue. If there was a safety issue, which I think a loose wheel laying around in the grass definitely is, they should’ve called it immediately. Nothing happened in between to make it more or less safe.
 
Spotter22 said:
Racing has safety rules and regulations and you dont put a service vehicle on a hot race track or pit road, period. Its not what I think its what the insurance companies think and what the race track thinks that pays them enormous amount of money for the coverage. Its not as simple as you think, lots of moving parts behind the scenes you dont know or think about.
Click to expand...
Really........... did the service truck have to be on pit road? The tire was 20 feet out in the grass. Does pit road not have lights at the entrance?? Could they not have just closed pit road, let the race continue and still have the tire removed??

Insurance? as an electrical contractor I could make a living off foolish rules
made up from Insurance companies who cater to manufacturers.
 
No excuses.. the caution was necessary and they should have called it right away. Someone decides to pit and doesn't know there's a tire and/or someone retrieving the tire could cause great damage, even death.
 
Team Penske said:
Really........... did the service truck have to be on pit road? The tire was 20 feet out in the grass. Does pit road not have lights at the entrance?? Could they not have just closed pit road, let the race continue and still have the tire removed??

Insurance? as an electrical contractor I could make a living off foolish rules
made up from Insurance companies who cater to manufacturers.
Click to expand...
dear god
 
I do think that the caution was the right call, but it should've been thrown immediately. I think they waited so that NASCAR could have the shoot out finish they love so much.

Late race cautions always breed more cautions. NASCAR knew what they were doing.
 
NASCAR before throwing the yellow
1620154324887.png
 
To me they had 3 choices and they settled on the worst of the 3

1. Throw the caution immediately because its a danger
2. Deem it's not a danger and not throw the caution
3.Decide it's not a danger, but then change your mind 13 laps later and then throw a caution

I can even see letting the immediate round of pit stops clear out in hopes that a caution will occur "naturally" as the cars move thru pit road. But once no one is coming down pit road for a few laps either throw the flag or keep it green. Don't wait 10 laps for the next group of cars to come down pit road in 10 laps
 
wi_racefan said:
To me they had 3 choices and they settled on the worst of the 3

1. Throw the caution immediately because its a danger
2. Deem it's not a danger and not throw the caution
3.Decide it's not a danger, but then change your mind 13 laps later and then throw a caution

I can even see letting the immediate round of pit stops clear out in hopes that a caution will occur "naturally" as the cars move thru pit road. But once no one is coming down pit road for a few laps either throw the flag or keep it green. Don't wait 10 laps for the next group of cars to come down pit road in 10 laps
Click to expand...
4. Throw the caution after the pit sequence.
 
StandOnIt said:
4. Throw the caution after the pit sequence.
Click to expand...
IMO they waited til end of the next pit sequence because guys were on 2 different strategies at that point. The 8 and most of the field came in on one sequence, cleared the pits and several laps went past with no one on pit road and the 17 and everyone else were on a different sequence.
 
Lets face it - a yellow will always benefit some and hinder others.

Back in the SR era, I used to accuse him, by loudly screaming at the TV, making his own cautions to get laps back etc.
 
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I realize this isn't an exact comparison but having watched hundreds of races at our local road course, it was always exciting to watch a "corner worker" run out on the track to grab some debris and run back with it so no yellow flag was needed. That person always got a huge cheer from the crowd. I would bet the same reaction would've happened last weekend if this was done.
 
Tony_K said:
I realize this isn't an exact comparison but having watched hundreds of races at our local road course, it was always exciting to watch a "corner worker" run out on the track to grab some debris and run back with it so no yellow flag was needed. That person always got a huge cheer from the crowd. I would bet the same reaction would've happened last weekend if this was done.
Click to expand...

I bet the track's Insurance will put a stop to that at some point.
 
wi_racefan said:
IMO they waited til end of the next pit sequence because guys were on 2 different strategies at that point. The 8 and most of the field came in on one sequence, cleared the pits and several laps went past with no one on pit road and the 17 and everyone else were on a different sequence.
Click to expand...
There wasn't any different strategies. Those that were still out on the track were out of gas and tires..It was green flag pit stops. They were waiting on a caution if you want to call that strategy. Nascar waited them out until they had to come in like everybody else had too. Pit sequences finished they threw the caution. That bunch that stayed out were going to the back caution or not.
 
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