Tony Stewart: NASCAR's aero problem is partly why I retired

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Maybe a little bit of bitterness? Kurt and Harvick seemed to do alright last year. Although, Tony's numbers in the Gen-6 era did take a steep nosedive from the previous era of car, even before his sprint car incidents.

It’s no secret that Stewart had become increasingly jaded with stock car racing over the final decade of his career due to the increases in technology, downforce and side force. He believes that driver talent has taken a back seat to engineering and simply wanted no part of that as a driver.

That’s what makes road courses, along with dirt and short track races, so appealing to the likely first-ballot Hall of Famer. He wants to compete in races in which driver input can compete equally alongside engineering.

"Finally, someone who actually gets that," Stewart told Autoweek on Wednesday. "That's one of the reasons why I decided to do something different this year. I wanted to race cars where I felt like I could make a difference.

"So that’s why I’m looking at the road courses for next year. They make you feel like you matter as a driver. I didn’t always feel that way on ovals as a driver last year because of the aerodynamics."
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http://autoweek.com/article/nascar/tony-stewart-nascars-aero-problem-part-why-i-retired
 
Tony needs to join the forum and get a physics lesson and and told how a dead leaf falling from a tree has side force, down force and goodness knows what other properties. He needs to be told it has always been that way and always will be that way and because of evolution it will only get worse!
 
I agree wholeheartedly with him. The sport is terribly over-engineered at this point. It is all based on what the data is telling you and not the feel of the people driving or setting up the cars anymore. I think this has in large part taken away from the actual quality of racing and it has limited driver error throughout the sport. These cars are on rails half of the time and so closely equal that it becomes follow the leader within 10 laps. That is why we see such a premium placed on restarts and pit strategy.
 
I've said this before and I'll say it again; I spend my time and money to watch races be decided on Sunday, by the drivers and pit crew at the track. I have no interest in watching TRD engineer Akihito do his boring job engineering "superior" machines, and therefor I don't want them to have any bearing on the outcome.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
How does the sport un-evolve though? How do we go backwards?
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In short, you make it pointless to spend money and time on engineering development.

This article talks about how an engineering advantage lasts approximately 8 weeks in the garage, and even though that seems short it's still enough incentive to spend millions of dollars teams don't have to gain it. But what if that advantage lasted only 1 week?

NASCAR already takes winning cars to an R&D center to strip them down and evaluate them piece by piece. I say give every cup team a seat at the table as they do this, every single week, so that no advantage (even the one you paid seven figures for) lasts more than a race. Let the competitors take all the pictures and measurements they want of the fastest cars on the track and we'll see how long the R&D arms race lasts.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Maybe a little bit of bitterness? Kurt and Harvick seemed to do alright last year. Although, Tony's numbers in the Gen-6 era did take a steep nosedive from the previous era of car, even before his sprint car incidents.



http://autoweek.com/article/nascar/tony-stewart-nascars-aero-problem-part-why-i-retired
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Tony is on record saying that if he wanted to drive a momentum race car, he woulda signed up for Xfinity full time.

Drivers like Tony are at their best when they can actually wheel the car & there is discernible off throttle/on throttle time with valuable consequences.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
How does the sport un-evolve though? How do we go backwards?
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I wouldn't call it backwards, but evolving. Nascar (SMI) has a road course next year in the playoffs. That is a 33% increase for road courses in cup. If it is a success, it is a simple matter to add more. They're a lot of options available cheaply. The other 1.5's have the room, independent Pocono are making improvements and aren't ruling out a road course event. Adding second dates to existing road courses. More complicated would be buying or leasing short track venues.
 
Have they changed the 4 car rule? Because Tony is talking about running some races in 2018.
 
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clarkfn2284 said:
I agree wholeheartedly with him. The sport is terribly over-engineered at this point. It is all based on what the data is telling you and not the feel of the people driving or setting up the cars anymore. I think this has in large part taken away from the actual quality of racing and it has limited driver error throughout the sport. These cars are on rails half of the time and so closely equal that it becomes follow the leader within 10 laps. That is why we see such a premium placed on restarts and pit strategy.
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This
 
Acs said:
I've said this before and I'll say it again; I spend my time and money to watch races be decided on Sunday, by the drivers and pit crew at the track. I have no interest in watching TRD engineer Akihito do his boring job engineering "superior" machines, and therefor I don't want them to have any bearing on the outcome.
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Interesting how you singled out Toyota, but not Ford or Chevy, you know they have engineers too right ?, so do you want to watch their engineers?
 
clarkfn2284 said:
I agree wholeheartedly with him. The sport is terribly over-engineered at this point. It is all based on what the data is telling you and not the feel of the people driving or setting up the cars anymore. I think this has in large part taken away from the actual quality of racing and it has limited driver error throughout the sport. These cars are on rails half of the time and so closely equal that it becomes follow the leader within 10 laps. That is why we see such a premium placed on restarts and pit strategy.
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For instance, last week Kez cut a tire after Kyle cut a tire. If it was follow the leader they both would have been mired in the back, but instead they both battled back to decent finishes with damaged cars. What in the hell is the solution? anybody think taking away their computers or simulators is going to change any thing in that area? B.S. on that. the top teams will be at the top anyway you slice it, short, road,oval, with jumps whatever. I know I would get tired real quick if every race was at a small track with a girl fight squabble every week. My advice is not to watch whatever track you have a problem with. Tony stated his preference of tracks, I doubt all drivers agree with it.
 
Tony blowing smoke again.

I think he retired primarily due to injuries, age and no longer being very competitive.
God for him, for him having sense enough not to tarnish a great career with memories of being well past his prime.
I wish Darrell Waltrip and Richard Petty had done the same.

I think he would still be running cup cars every Sunday, if capable of performing at his best, regardless of any Aero concerns.
 
Greg said:
Tony blowing smoke again.

I think he retired primarily due to injuries, age and no longer being very competitive.
God for him, for him having sense enough not to tarnish a great career with memories of being well past his prime.
I wish Darrell Waltrip and Richard Petty had done the same.

I think he would still be running cup cars every Sunday, if capable of performing at his best, regardless of any Aero concerns.
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I want him to run xfinity if he wants to, but I also know times have changed rapidly. Even if he was a good as he once was on road courses, there are many as good or better racing in Xfinity. I would be surprised if he won it, or even the top 5. I don't think that is the point with guys like Stewart, Foyt, Petty etc. Jr said one time in an interview that after cup and way down the line he would be racing at a little dirt track somewhere in his old age. Red Farmer still races. Looks like that isn't going to happen with his injury, but that was his intent.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Tony needs to join the forum and get a physics lesson and and told how a dead leaf falling from a tree has side force, down force and goodness knows what other properties. He needs to be told it has always been that way and always will be that way and because of evolution it will only get worse!
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You may not win the internet but you definitely won the forum today!!!
Tony may even make a comeback if he joins us and gets the chance to learn that everything he has experienced was just an illusion!!!
Nothing more than a NASCAR matrix!
 
Tony may be partially right in the broadest sense, but his claim that his dissatisfaction with aero-dependence is why he retired is dubious. As a couple have already said, he was no longer a competitive driver the majority of the time, and was likely to become less so, not more. I support his decision to do what he wants, and I wish it were practical for more of these notable retirees to step away from the grind but still pop up from time to time with limited schedules.

StandOnIt said:
I want him to run xfinity if he wants to, but I also know times have changed rapidly. Even if he was a good as he once was on road courses, there are many as good or better racing in Xfinity. I would be surprised if he won it, or even the top 5. I don't think that is the point with guys like Stewart, Foyt, Petty etc. Jr said one time in an interview that after cup and way down the line he would be racing at a little dirt track somewhere in his old age. Red Farmer still races. Looks like that isn't going to happen with his injury, but that was his intent.
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His road racing skills may be the exception to his overall deterioration. In 2016 he won Sonoma (even if Hamlin threw away the victory rather absurdly) and was fifth at the Glen. I believe he would be a favorite in an Xfinity road race and a legitimate top-10 Cup contender even now.
 
So many comments here are RIGHT ON, particularly the over engineered aero dependent status, and the idea to open inspections to all so no advantage is worth the R&D $$ to execute.

This is why racing fans started getting tired of NASCAR. Cars that shared more in common with "stock", depending on chassis setup and changes on race day, and tough enough to drive that talent matters a lot. How do you evolve back to something similar? So many suggestions put on here many times, but boils down to shedding the splitter and skirts as much as possible, lower horsepower to slow speeds, limit R&D to put emphasis on race week/day adjustments, etc.
 
Conover said:
So many comments here are RIGHT ON, particularly the over engineered aero dependent status, and the idea to open inspections to all so no advantage is worth the R&D $$ to execute.

This is why racing fans started getting tired of NASCAR. Cars that shared more in common with "stock", depending on chassis setup and changes on race day, and tough enough to drive that talent matters a lot. How do you evolve back to something similar? So many suggestions put on here many times, but boils down to shedding the splitter and skirts as much as possible, lower horsepower to slow speeds, limit R&D to put emphasis on race week/day adjustments, etc.
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so they will go slower single file, because the lead car ALWAYS has the advantage, and hire a Nascar advisor to spy on the teams to keep them from developing an edge.
 
StandOnIt said:
so they will go slower single file, because the lead car ALWAYS has the advantage, and hire a Nascar advisor to spy on the teams to keep them from developing an edge.
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Not if you return drafting to the equation at large tracks. Yes the leader will always have an advantage but drafting enables passing and strategy relative to timing on passes.

Nothing makes racing perfect but Stewart's points are valid.
 
drafting occurs at plate tracks, it hasn't ever happened on tracks that don't have a plate.
 
StandOnIt said:
drafting occurs at plate tracks, it hasn't ever happened on tracks that don't have a plate.
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Hmm really? It happens at most tracks. But does it help at a 3/4 mile track or shorter? yeah , but no. Nascrap thinks 205 mph at 1.5 or 2 milers is really kewl. It aint. The single car train at these tracks make it boring, by far. Wake up nascrap, we dont need to see speed, we need to see close racing. Figure it the fook out!. Fast isnt fun, close competition is. Can anyone see the difference between 200 and 179 in your living room? I doubt it. Lose the splitter, the side skirts, and half of the rear spoiler, lose the frickin stage racing---it sucks ass-- its a commercial waiting to happen. 10 laps of yellow for each stage. give me a brake ( break) The reason we/I have netflix is because it commercial free, yet tv want to make a basic 30 minute show into 39 minutes. Yes an actual 19 program is now 40 minutes--1/2 show 1/2 advertisements. I have better things to do than watch a repeat filled with this crap. nacrap is a rolling advertisement, yet they never show the cars 25th or back unless it's a "star" with a problem. These guys need the air time but the d**kheads at nbc or fox dont give them anything. The song from AC/DC "money talks" is whats it's all about, but explain that to unemployed racers like matt kensteth and co. The sport is dying and their cure is digging the hole deeper.
 
rocket dawg said:
Hmm really? It happens at most tracks. But does it help at a 3/4 mile track or shorter? yeah , but no. Nascrap thinks 205 mph at 1.5 or 2 milers is really kewl. It aint. The single car train at these tracks make it boring, by far. Wake up nascrap, we dont need to see speed, we need to see close racing. Figure it the fook out!. Fast isnt fun, close competition is. Can anyone see the difference between 200 and 179 in your living room? I doubt it. Lose the splitter, the side skirts, and half of the rear spoiler, lose the frickin stage racing---it sucks ass-- its a commercial waiting to happen. 10 laps of yellow for each stage. give me a brake ( break) The reason we/I have netflix is because it commercial free, yet tv want to make a basic 30 minute show into 39 minutes. Yes an actual 19 program is now 40 minutes--1/2 show 1/2 advertisements. I have better things to do than watch a repeat filled with this crap. nacrap is a rolling advertisement, yet they never show the cars 25th or back unless it's a "star" with a problem. These guys need the air time but the dickheads at nbc or fox dont give them anything. The song from AC/DC "money talks" is whats it's all about, but explain that to unemployed racers like matt kensteth and co. The sport is dying and their cure is digging the hole deeper.
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hate to tell ya, but none of that is going to happen. more netflix for you :D
 
clarkfn2284 said:
I agree wholeheartedly with him. The sport is terribly over-engineered at this point. It is all based on what the data is telling you and not the feel of the people driving or setting up the cars anymore. I think this has in large part taken away from the actual quality of racing and it has limited driver error throughout the sport. These cars are on rails half of the time and so closely equal that it becomes follow the leader within 10 laps. That is why we see such a premium placed on restarts and pit strategy.
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Bingo...too bad Nascar just makes the problem worse, instead of fixing it they will have more gimmicks for next year.

StandOnIt said:
drafting occurs at plate tracks, it hasn't ever happened on tracks that don't have a plate.
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Lol yes it has
 
I don't know if any of you have the bandwidth to watch but here is a 95 Charlotte race with out splitters and skirts and there isn't any bumper to bumper drafting here.. it hasn't changed over the years.

 
StandOnIt said:
I don't know if any of you have the bandwidth to watch but here is a 95 Charlotte race with out splitters and skirts and there isn't any bumper to bumper drafting here.. it hasn't changed over the years.

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I think there’s drafting at tracks like Michigan and Fontana big 1.5 Mile ovals with sweeping banking corners where you can suck up to the guy in front of you but that’s about it due to aero it’s hard to pass the guy. An out and out draft in a pack only happens at Talladega and Daytona, but you know that...your 1995 race probably has better racing than what we have today. Might give that a watch before bed here.
 
For all those that say Tony was washed up and that’s why he retired, I agree with you halfway. I really think these new cars threw drivers for a loop from the guys who drove the last gen cars successfully like Smoke, Jr, Gordon for instance I have read in more than one article that those guys had trouble feeling the car and being able to give feedback to fix it. What they gave, the car always went the wrong way instead of getting better. I think Tony lost a little skill, maybe a lot of desire after both sprint car incidents but I would think if those two things never happened and he got a handle on this generation of car, he’d still be out there contending for wins and playoff berths into his 50’s.
 
it isn't better unless something happens in the race, just like it is today. The cars behave the same at 175 as the do at 195. Many of the old timers look back with rose colored glasses IMO. Can't argue about all the commercials, that has diminished the racing. But to each their own, even seeing won't be believing for some.
 
StandOnIt said:
where?
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I mean ****, I wasn't even 10 when this race was run, but it took me all of 4 minutes to look up a random 90's coke 600 and then watch 20 minutes of better racing than I'll see all this 2017 season. Hell tune in at 19 mins in to this race and you'll see what everyone else means:


StandOnIt said:
I don't know if any of you have the bandwidth to watch but here is a 95 Charlotte race with out splitters and skirts and there isn't any bumper to bumper drafting here.. it hasn't changed over the years.

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It seems like we're talking about about two different things here. People say "drafting" and some think of what we see today at Dega and Daytona; bumper to bumper three wide 10 rows deep with passing relying on pushing help and whatnon. I don't think that's what @ChexOrWrex or @Mopardh9 are talking about. That will never happen outside of wide plate tracks where there is no lifting off the throttle. What we're talking about when we say "drafting" in the old style does not equal plate racing in the least. It simply means the 2nd place guy being able to suck up to the guy in 1st via drag. Cars today can maybe do that, but the downforce penalty through the corners is so steep it isn't worth it.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Tony is on record saying that if he wanted to drive a momentum race car, he woulda signed up for Xfinity full time.

Drivers like Tony are at their best when they can actually wheel the car & there is discernible off throttle/on throttle time with valuable consequences.
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This.
 
Snappy D said:
I think there’s drafting at tracks like Michigan and Fontana big 1.5 Mile ovals with sweeping banking corners where you can suck up to the guy in front of you but that’s about it due to aero it’s hard to pass the guy. An out and out draft in a pack only happens at Talladega and Daytona, but you know that...your 1995 race probably has better racing than what we have today. Might give that a watch before bed here.
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check it out. Here is Michigan 1995, cars spread out all over the track, nobody is bumper to bumper drafting, no splitter or skirts

 
Acs said:
I mean sh!t, I wasn't even 10 when this race was run, but it took me all of 4 minutes to look up a random 90's coke 600 and then watch 20 minutes of better racing than I'll see all this 2017 season. Hell tune in at 19 mins in to this race and you'll see what everyone else means:




It seems like we're talking about about two different things here. People say "drafting" and some think of what we see today at Dega and Daytona; bumper to bumper three wide 10 rows deep with passing relying on pushing help and whatnon. I don't think that's what @ChexOrWrex or @Mopardh9 are talking about. That will never happen outside of wide plate tracks where there is no lifting off the throttle. What we're talking about when we say "drafting" in the old style does not equal plate racing in the least. It simply means the 2nd place guy being able to suck up to the guy in 1st via drag. Cars today can maybe do that, but the downforce penalty through the corners is so steep it isn't worth it.
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4 cars led laps yeah right. they had 17 lead changes though, pretty much the same today. again depending on what race it is. some more some less;)
 
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