Tony Stewart: NASCAR's aero problem is partly why I retired

StandOnIt said:
:XXROFL:that 96 race had 20 lead changes, same as 2016
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Irrelevant. Quit looking at the number of leaders; what do your eyes tell you? Watch that link above that Acs posted. The difference is night and day. Look how much closer they could run around each other without getting out of sorts, and look how they could run side by side. These days you'll see that for MAYBE one lap after a restart.

I see a lot of comments on here about rose colored glasses and nostalgia altering perceptions and all that, and all it tells me is that those folks either forgot how the racing used to be 20 years ago, or they just have their heads in the sand. Or maybe they weren't watching back then and think today's racing is the best because "the leader doesn't lap the field like 1963" :rolleyes:
 
2 Sweet said:
Irrelevant. Quit looking at the number of leaders; what do your eyes tell you? Watch that link above that Acs posted. The difference is night and day. Look how much closer they could run around each other without getting out of sorts, and look how they could run side by side. These days you'll see that for MAYBE one lap after a restart.

I see a lot of comments on here about rose colored glasses and nostalgia altering perceptions and all that, and all it tells me is that those folks either forgot how the racing used to be 20 years ago, or they just have their heads in the sand. Or maybe they weren't watching back then and think today's racing is the best because "the leader doesn't lap the field like 1963" :rolleyes:
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It amazes me that people can't see how much better racing was is the late 80s and early 90s, where we actually had cars that didn't look alike, that could run side by side, and that didn' run in 30 car packs at Daytona.
 
Acs said:
I mean sh!t, I wasn't even 10 when this race was run.
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This was my first race when I was ten years old. :confused:

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I think what a lot of people here want to see is basically what Brian France wants to see... pack racing on the intermediate tracks. Not Talladega-style four-wide packs, but looser packs with drafting sorta like the Indy 500. If the leader has a sizable aerodynamic disadvantage relative to the trailing cars, he won't be able to pull away. Rather, he will soon be passed by the aero-favored second car, who passes for the lead and then becomes the new sitting duck. It artificially creates a lot of passing, a lot of side x side moments.

Nascar has experimented with a deal like that, but have not yet found the right balance of low horsepower and high drag/high downforce. In testing, the drivers hated it because they were helpless aero passengers. Led by Carl Edwards, they lobbied hard in 2015 and 2016 for a new direction - sharply lower downforce - that would "put the race back in the hands of the drivers." I like this because my #1 requirement is that the race should be a meritocracy. But I sense that a lot of folks on this board don't have an appetite for the best drivers in the best cars being able to pass for the lead and then pull away.

Back in 2015, Tony Stewart also paid lip service to the concept of putting the race in the hands of the driver, and in this article he is still saying that. But when it happened in 2016 (and then further in 2017), Smoke was unable to compete. It's no surprise to me that, in his mid-40's, his reactions had slowed a bit, rendering him unable to live on the razors edge of control with the sharply lower downforce.

BTW, the R&D Center post race tear downs are open to all competitors. Many teams routinely have observers there checking out the fast cars that won the race.
 
Taco said:
Have they changed the 4 car rule? Because Tony is talking about running some races in 2018.
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I think Tony was talking about Xf road course races. I would like to see that. I'm against Cup drivers in Xf so I'm torn, but would love to see Smoke at Road America.
 
I would like less Aero dependance, and I don't mind snarking an idiot like Brian France. I miss the days when short track were a huge part of the schedule.

But the racing has been very very good year, sorry for those can not enjoy it. And Aero push and clean air was part of the gig in the 90s too. The twisted sister cars were a contortion that was all about what an engineer or skilled English wheelman could do. And a wheelman like Tony would not have done **** in the cars without the fabricators.
There just isn't any documented internet threads to suit the virtual reality requirements of some.

Tony is legend worthy of respect but the dude is always crying about something. He will be on to something else next week. Harvick is old school and and still young enough to find a good line in SHR cars, and Tony would still be doing it at Phoenix this weekend too, if he only could.

He just can't and plays as if he was rooted out, poor old displaced old timer me kleenex time... He isnt no different his time just ran out. Something all have to face including Fort, Petty, Pearson etc...as we all do or will.
 
Johali said:
Two Denarii. But there was a lotta bitching from some people about aero dependency. :confused:
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That and I'm not sure WTH they were thinking about those spike things as wheel hubs. It was obvious that could cause problems when running side by side. It's ridiculous that NASCAR let them get away with that for so long.

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dpkimmel2001 said:
That and I'm not sure WTH they were thinking about those spike things as wheel hubs. It was obvious that could cause problems when running side by side. It's ridiculous that NASCAR let them get away with that for so long.

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:XXROFL::XXROFL:
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
That and I'm not sure WTH they were thinking about those spike things as wheel hubs. It was obvious that could cause problems when running side by side. It's ridiculous that NASCAR let them get away with that for so long.

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Greg said:
But the racing has been very very good this year, sorry for those can not enjoy it. And Aero push and clean air was part of the gig in the 90s too. The twisted sister cars were a contortion that was all about what an engineer or skilled English wheelman could do. And a wheelman like Tony would not have done sh!t in the cars without the fabricators.
There just isn't any documented internet threads to suit the virtual reality requirements of some.
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On the money.
 
Greg said:
I would like less Aero dependance, and I don't mind snarking an idiot like Brian France. I miss the days when short track were a huge part of the schedule.

But the racing has been very very good year, sorry for those can not enjoy it. And Aero push and clean air was part of the gig in the 90s too. The twisted sister cars were a contortion that was all about what an engineer or skilled English wheelman could do. And a wheelman like Tony would not have done sh!t in the cars without the fabricators.
There just isn't any documented internet threads to suit the virtual reality requirements of some.

Tony is legend worthy of respect but the dude is always crying about something. He will be on to something else next week. Harvick is old school and and still young enough to find a good line in SHR cars, and Tony would still be doing it at Phoenix this weekend too, if he only could.

He just can't and plays as if he was rooted out, poor old displaced old timer me kleenex time... He isnt no different his time just ran out. Something all have to face including Fort, Petty, Pearson etc...as we all do or will.
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Judging by the empty seats and low ratings a plethora of people never got the memo about the racing being very, very this year.
 
Zerkfitting said:
The only way to reduce aero dependence is to slow the cars down - it is all about physics. Racing a brick at 200 mph vs.130 mph.

I thought the racing at Daytona was better when they had the wing.
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you just described Jeff Burton driving around before the race starts..I guess he and Ato could duel it out at a buck 30. :p
 
Zerkfitting said:
The only way to reduce aero dependence is to slow the cars down - it is all about physics. Racing a brick at 200 mph vs.130 mph.

I thought the racing at Daytona was better when they had the wing.
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Granted, I did not stay @ the Holiday Inn Express last night as there was no vacancy but I'm still at a loss how slowing the cars down is going to make better racing. How are the cars supposed to be slowed down? Restrictor plates? Lower horsepower?

Say they run a smaller engine, horsepower wise..... The cars are perfectly capable of the drivers running foot to the floor around most of the venues at a far reduced speed. If everyone is running foot to the floor, how does this benefit anything? I just don't get it.
 
Zerkfitting said:
The only way to reduce aero dependence is to slow the cars down - it is all about physics. Racing a brick at 200 mph vs.130 mph.

I thought the racing at Daytona was better when they had the wing.
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Brian France and some good folks here will tell you the racing has never been better than today. And Tony Stewart has been targeting Aric Almirola as a driver since shortly after his mom delivered him too.
 
Zerkfitting said:
The only way to reduce aero dependence is to slow the cars down - it is all about physics. Racing a brick at 200 mph vs.130 mph.

I thought the racing at Daytona was better when they had the wing.
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Exactly. Thank you.

dpkimmel2001 said:
Granted, I did not stay @ the Holiday Inn Express last night as there was no vacancy but I'm still at a loss how slowing the cars down is going to make better racing. How are the cars supposed to be slowed down? Restrictor plates? Lower horsepower?

Say they run a smaller engine, horsepower wise..... The cars are perfectly capable of the drivers running foot to the floor around most of the venues at a far reduced speed. If everyone is running foot to the floor, how does this benefit anything? I just don't get it.
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Exactly. Thank you.
 
Here is the fastest lap holder at Daytona.. I wonder how long it would be before the cries of get rid of the skirts, and that ridiculous wing, the cars all look the same.. because they would. Ya see that little graphic on the left rear quarter. Oh that would never go away around here.
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Greg said:
I am not agreeing with everything Nascar does, not an apologist by any means. But there has been a lot of good racing this year.
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Yep, I agree on both of your points.

@dpkimmel2001 : One thing I think Nascar can and should do to slow the cars some in the corners is reduce the side force. I don't know how that would affect how the cars handle, but I do know Nascar R&D has been experimenting with designs having lower side force, including designs they have called "zero side force."

Articles published by some of the engineers there make it clear that the total car design must be viewed as an integrated system. You can't go jacking with a few parts of it without creating a lot of consequences. Wind tunnels, CFD algorithms, and test vehicles are required, or so they say. That part doesn't sit well with the Time Machine travelers who just want to "make it 1975 again."
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Granted, I did not stay @ the Holiday Inn Express last night as there was no vacancy but I'm still at a loss how slowing the cars down is going to make better racing. How are the cars supposed to be slowed down? Restrictor plates? Lower horsepower?

Say they run a smaller engine, horsepower wise..... The cars are perfectly capable of the drivers running foot to the floor around most of the venues at a far reduced speed. If everyone is running foot to the floor, how does this benefit anything? I just don't get it.
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the good Xfinity cars at Texas with fresh tires were able to do that.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I've never seen that view before. That is absolutely ridiculous.
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it would be like that and worse in a heartbeat if they "let them out of the box, let em race" On the other hand when bringing up the composite body..eh we don't want IROC racing. :D
 
I don't think Tony gave a rats ass about it when he wasn't having to pay for it while looking over the top of a stack of invoices on his desk. He suddenly became an advocate for short tracks and road courses.


Jr, and Tony are outspoken about short tracks, if they could get Gordon on board, the fan council already is, many drivers would follow. That could keep short track stories in the media. That maybe could bring about another track or two in the future, I think the fan council and fans in general complaining about so many races at Charlotte, brought about the Roval.
 
Some on here sure act like any discussion about improving the racing is a big joke. Nascar has let the inmates run the asylum. The cars today are as twisted and out of the shape of a street car as the car pictured above. Slowing the cars would not be that hard to do. No splitter ,skirts or spoiler.Stock front ends, open grilles ,no skew, both sides must be the same . Raise ride hight, ,get them off packers and bump stops,no coil bind. Reduce tire width if they could still run wide open in the turns. Spectators through the years want to see close racing. No one here is big enough to admit that a couple crashes and drivers exceeding the limits put butts in the seats IT says stock car in the name
 
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