Two-car draft vs. pack racing

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by dpkimmel2001, Feb 13, 2011.

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Which do you like better the two-car draft or pack racing?

Poll closed Feb 19, 2011.
  1. Two-car draft

    14 vote(s)
    63.6%
  2. Pack racing

    8 vote(s)
    36.4%
  1. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    Now that you've had a little time to digest, which do you like better?

    Wow..... What a different race! Take everything that we've known about restrictor plate racing and throw it out the window. As much as I was liking what I saw I have to wonder how many of these teams are going to be around at the end of the 500? I think that the biggest issue with it is that not only is is something new to us fans, it is to the drivers as well. They're having to learn a new form of racing virtually overnight. The same goes for NASCAR. The powers that be have to be banging their collective heads against the wall trying to figure out how to get the speeds down when they're in these two car drafts. With a few exceptions last night, these were our best drivers out there and they had problems. Problems with closing rates, problems with getting that third duo past the other two, two car packs running side by side. This track isn't nearly as wide as Talladega and it's not leaving any room for error. My driver was taken out through no fault of his own while riding the yellow line last night. I think that if they allow this to continue and we have the full field of 43 out there, throwing in some of the lessor skilled drivers, we'll see a quick thinning of the herd.
     
  2. mickeysimzac

    mickeysimzac Guest

    I voted for the 2 car only because you didn't give an option of non of the above. I still hate restrictor plate racing. The end last night proved that if the same scenario happens at the end of the 500, no one is going to attempt to pass on their own fearing the other 2 car pack will still pass them. Knock down the banks, take off the restrictor plates, and let them race. JMO
     
  3. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    Sure I guess I could have put that option in there but it's not going to happen that they are ever going to run unrestricted again. Besides, I wasn't interested in whether or not someone liked or disliked restrictor plate racing.
     
  4. sloggie

    sloggie Racing I will teach you

    If you watched the ARCA race, you would have seen a whole bunch of cars on the inside line with it being impossible to pass on the outside because the grip is so good and the inside is the short way around.

    I think we will see a lot of folks who can't get partners out there stuck way behind.
     
  5. Joniki

    Joniki Team Owner Contributor

    Two cars hooked up is better than watching a parade.
     
  6. I missed all the testing and rules changes. I have noticed in the last couple of years 2 cars breakaways at Dega and tona. What has change to produce the 2 car train racing?
     
  7. sloggie

    sloggie Racing I will teach you

    When 2 cars are together, the back one bumps the front. The front then drags the brake a bit so he doesn't lose the pusher.

    When 3 cars try to do that, they wreck.
     
  8. racer8

    racer8 Team Owner

    I'll be interested to see what happens Thursday in the duals.
    It's good to see the cars be able to get away from each other, but only in pairs. It's weird looking to watch. Looks kinda like cars with trailers racing out there.
    :beerbang::beerbang: :beerbang::beerbang: :beerbang::beerbang:
     
  9. VaDirt

    VaDirt Dirt Track Fanatic

    Exactly. It' weird looking to watch.
     
  10. Bucky Badger

    Bucky Badger Go Kyle Go

    Very strange...
     
  11. SlowNeasy

    SlowNeasy Guest

    the 2 car draft does add an element of strategy we've never seen before. not to this extent anyway. picking a drafting partner for the entire race is crucial now. if you lose him, like jamie did last night, who's your backup guy? has he already got a partner, etc.... nobody is going to hang out at the back of the pack (willingly). it makes how you look at the race completely different.
     
  12. SST55

    SST55 Guest

    I'm not sure yet. Half the field went out in the 50 lap segment and most of those were "experienced" drivers. That was for no points or money too.

    That third pack of 2 splitting the the top 4 is scary. That could cause a VERY big one.

    Hambone didn't disapoint. Felt bad for LaBonte, driving around with his turn signal on,,,,,
     
  13. klemmabyna

    klemmabyna Team Owner

    neither option fits my description of racing.
     
  14. Stewart Fan

    Stewart Fan Team Owner

    I hate the two car drafting. The problem is if you are an unpopular driver and no one decides they wanna push you then your screwed. I miss the huge pack racing. Those two car drafts are gonna take some people out Sunday.
     
  15. mike honcho

    mike honcho Knuckleheads

    Don't forget to add anybody with front or rear car damage is automatically out of the race.You can't push or be pushed with that kind of damage.
     
  16. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Guest

    Don't knock the banks down, get rid of the plates, and go to a different engine package. I've been saying this for years, you put out a smaller displacement engine in a Superspedway car, one that is non-restricted, generating around 450-500 HP and you will have good racing. You won't have huge packs all the time, it will be like the old days when you could sling shot around somebody.
     
  17. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Guest

    Agreed, I do like the 2 car draft better than the pack, but seriously neither one is real racing.
     
  18. MoMike

    MoMike Guest

    I think we'll see more lapped cars than we've seen in a long time.
     
  19. Stewart Fan

    Stewart Fan Team Owner


    Yeah pretty much. I just wonder how much of a beating those rear bumpers can take for 500 miles. They looked beat up after the shootout.
     
  20. mickeysimzac

    mickeysimzac Guest

    If that works, I have no problem with it at all.
     
  21. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Guest

    The one negative, and this is a big negative, is that it is cost prohibitive. You would need basically an entire different engine for 4 races per year, different gearing probably too, so I think this is why it has never been approached.
     
  22. kelloggs5TLfan

    kelloggs5TLfan Team Owner

    Neither. I like the two car over the pack..
     
  23. kkfan91

    kkfan91 Often imitated never duplicated

    We needed an option for both...cause I like both.
     
  24. wilson89

    wilson89 Team Owner

    I dont care for the two car packs. It may of been cool with experiances drivers like Gordon, Harvick, Stewart, etc. But whats going to happen when it comes to guys like Kesowlowski or Steven Wallace. Plus theres a big differance when theres 43 cars on the track compared to 24.
     
  25. sloggie

    sloggie Racing I will teach you

    Same thing that happened to Derrik Cope. Rolling Chicanes.
     
  26. wilson89

    wilson89 Team Owner

    Yeah but last nite I noticed Matt Kenseth lost a lap in only about a 12 lap time period after battling for the lead most the nite. Only problem he had was there was 13 cars and when there running 2 by 2 theres going to be an odd man out.
     
  27. I understand all that jazz, that's cal bump drafting. But what has changed this year to make them have to run two car drafts. Is it the grip on the track, new front end on cars?
     
  28. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Guest


    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/116113454.html

    That should help.
     
  29. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    I'm not knocking your theory at all. I just don't understand how your solution works. Since the inception of the restriction plate NASCAR has been adamant about keeping the speeds down below whatever their magic number is. If the engine that you describe is allowed to run unrestricted will the speeds be down in their acceptable range?
     
  30. MoMike

    MoMike Guest

    The problem is that whatever the speed is regulated at, the engines are designed to run wide open. Everybody is in the same parameters, and therefore, the same large pack.
    Isn't there a gear rule that could be implemented, along with the absence of a rev chip that could do what a restrictor plate does?
    Maybe someone could pull out and storm to the front, but take a risk of blowing the motor on the way.....maybe not..
    MoMike
     
  31. SST55

    SST55 Guest

    Racing didn't suffer when they went from big block 426's etc to the 358 format. The small blocks of today are producing hp the big blocks could only dream of.
    Dropping down to the 302 format won't hurt anything.

    Waterford has a 305 ci rule for some classes and limiting modifications. The expense of building a competitive 358 was driving racers away. Racing hasn't suffered at all.

    9500 rpm is insane.
     
  32. Mopardh9

    Mopardh9 Guest

    Ok i will try to explain this as simply as I can here. A restricted engine that is designed to produce 750-800hp simply is being choked off, it takes longer for it to get up to speed, to accelerate if you will. A non-restricted engine can accelerate at its' designed level. Thus when they back off the pedal and then push down the accelerator, the car will accelerate quicker, which will help them sling shot in the draft, and keep them away from 2 car trains. 450HP would probably get them around 180-185mph wide open, which IMO would be plenty for Daytona and Dega. When I first joined this forum back in 2002 we had this discussion. I think the main stumbling block is cost, plus Nascar loves the tight pack mentality racing, it generates chaos with 3 wide, 30 car packs traveling at speeds of 190 or better. To me that takes away from the whole purpose of racing, you are supposed to be able to get away and pass your competitors, not be equal to him. Letting the teams choose from a various selection of gearing would also help, instead of having one mandated gear rule for plate tracks.
     
  33. MoMike

    MoMike Guest

    I understand what you are saying, but wasn't there a time when drivers ran cars without rev limiters? How did they take care of their stuff, and compete?
    It seems to me they can mandate the right gear, with an unrestricted engine that can run these "plate tracks". Sure,they might be able to do 205 for 40-50 laps, but the engine won't carry them 500 miles that way, at 11,000 RPM.
    Let them take off like rockets and top out at 205 at 11,000 rpm. Who can manage it for 500 miles? They can police themselves, and probably not have the big one.
    MoMike
     
  34. SST55

    SST55 Guest

    Yes but they had built in rev limiters. Hit 6500-7000 rpm 30 years ago and it'd blow up. The technology and extremely strong lightweight parts available today have allowed the increase in rpm. Nate can now balance a complete rotating assy down to half a gram, that's half the weight of a dollar bill. All computerized, unheard of just 10-15 years ago.
     
  35. MoMike

    MoMike Guest

    Well, then they can gear them low enough that when they hold them to the floor, they approach the "blow-up" zone before they hit 200 mph.
    And this might allow someone with a good restart to get out there 20-30 car lengths and stay there.
    MoMike
     

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