What has happened to nascar????

Shobud1

Shobud1

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A lot of us old-timers see what’s happening, and some of it is good, like soft walls, full face helmets etc. Creativity in the garage has been stifled and that needs to be remedied. The crew chiefs need to be able to play with some of the cars’ characteristics, so that innovation can be a factor in racing again. Have a little “give” in the tolerances and see what the teams come up with. There should be a money cap for all owners/teams and limit owner cars to be no more than three instead of letting the owners wife, children, dogs put their names as owners. You might just be surprised the difference it would make for smaller teams. The “Lucky Dog” rule? It needs to go. If someone is a lap behind, then their just a lap behind, that’s it. If NASCAR would allow for some more variation in the cars, a Crew Chief might be able to “fix” a car well enough to race their way back to being on the lead lap without cheating. In the 60's 70's era I watched Richard Petty come back from 7 laps down and win. I watched Jeff Gordon go four laps down at Martinsville one time, and race his way back to win the race. Now, THAT was racing! Nascar should let the Manufacture have more input in design of car like they did in the 70's. Soon the attendance in Nascar will be less than the fan draw at a Poker tournament
The bottom line is that Mr. France, Robin Pemberton and several other “yes—”men (including some drivers), have ruined the sport. They keep coming up with gimmicks to win fans back (like bringing Danica Patrick over to NASCAR) only to have it blow up in their faces when fans realize it’s only a “gimmick” and nothing more. If they want their fan-base back, they're going to have to do better. I don't think they are headed in the right direction. In the meantime, I watch NHRA, WOO, ARCA and it's more of a race than Nascar but, even those races are rigged sometimes. Most Chevys and Fords running Keith Black Chrysler Hemi in NHRA should be announced as such but they make you think they are running the brand on the car.......What is your take on this subject.
 
Bring back the days when Awesome Bill could run an engine with 50hp extra and come back from 3 laps down . That was racin right there .
 
Nascar should NEVER have any input into the design of a car. NONE. "run whatcha brung".
This "parity" and "leveling the playing field" suks. It's led to cookie cutter cars on cookie cutter tracks driven by guys who don't even shave yet. If your car is a slug, you've got more work to do, not go whining to nascar.
Limit engine size and safety items, then Boys have at it!
 
They used to test each of the manufacturers right around the Michigan week to do comparrisons but they never released the actual numbers for those tests either.
 
nascar has no choice but to strictly mandate almost everything in the sport. If not, someone would bring one of these to the track and competition would be over.

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dpkimmel2001 said:
No, they don't release any of those numbers.

Cars are taken to the R&D Center each and every week after the race. The winning car and I believe, two randoms.
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So what good does it do for them to test engines if they don't release the numbers? it sorta sounds like an Obama deal to me. To keep something hid from the public is not proving anything. It's just like debree on the track, SOMETIMES YOU SEE IT AND SOMETIMES YOU DON't.....
 
Keep in mind that before the 'Lucky Dog', a driver was alowed to race back to the line under caution. They also didn't do double file restarts. And, the lap down cars could start in front of the leader depending on whether or not they pitted. All of these things that have changed would pretty much prevent anyone from getting their laps back in the sport today.
 
Shobud1 said:
So what good does it do for them to test engines if they don't release the numbers? it sorta sounds like an Obama deal to me. To keep something hid from the public is not proving anything. It's just like debree on the track, SOMETIMES YOU SEE IT AND SOMETIMES YOU DON't.....
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Green? Are you mad or someting? Maybe not? I guess it would have been Red.
 
I'm not against innovation but if a team got something better than everyone else and started winning all the time... look at F1. How would you feel in Jimmie won every week. I don't think you can limit a budget, there are ways around it. Historically, money = winning cars. I would like to see an unlimited, non points class in sports car racing where anything goes, then we can see what innovation really can do. In NASCAR I want a level playing field. In the past there were only a handful of cars capable of winning any given weekend; now, anyone in the top 15 have a decent chance to win.
 
Shobud1 said:
So what good does it do for them to test engines if they don't release the numbers? it sorta sounds like an Obama deal to me. To keep something hid from the public is not proving anything. It's just like debree on the track, SOMETIMES YOU SEE IT AND SOMETIMES YOU DON't.....
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The thing is... they don't HAVE to prove anything to us...
 
Zerkfitting said:
I'm not against innovation but if a team got something better than everyone else and started winning all the time... look at F1. How would you feel in Jimmie won every week. I don't think you can limit a budget, there are ways around it. Historically, money = winning cars. I would like to see an unlimited, non points class in sports car racing where anything goes, then we can see what innovation really can do. In NASCAR I want a level playing field. In the past there were only a handful of cars capable of winning any given weekend; now, anyone in the top 15 have a decent chance to win.
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Do you think there is cheating going on with J. Johnson/Hendrick?
 
I know they have tried to level the field, but to me in doing so its not helpful to have all the cars running basically the same speeds. The first thing that needs to be done is bring back things for all the cars to be different from each other at different times in the race. The main thing I see is figuring out a way to induce more tire fall off. There is tire fall off at most tracks however it seems like its not really in the drivers control how much tire fall off there is. another words drivers can't save tires and have it pay off late in the runs. If you watch lap times typcially the first 5-6 laps the tires give a good speed advantage, but after that they seem to level off and don't keep loosing much or any speed. This leaves cars running about the same speeds ie the strung out effect you see at well 5-6 laps after a caution. I heard its because goodyear switched out to an environmentally friendly tire compound. so the tires aren't the same as they used to be.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
I know they have tried to level the field, but to me in doing so its not helpful to have all the cars running basically the same speeds. The first thing that needs to be done is bring back things for all the cars to be different from each other at different times in the race. The main thing I see is figuring out a way to induce more tire fall off. There is tire fall off at most tracks however it seems like its not really in the drivers control how much tire fall off there is. another words drivers can't save tires and have it pay off late in the runs. If you watch lap times typcially the first 5-6 laps the tires give a good speed advantage, but after that they seem to level off and don't keep loosing much or any speed. This leaves cars running about the same speeds ie the strung out effect you see at well 5-6 laps after a caution. I heard its because goodyear switched out to an environmentally friendly tire compound. so the tires aren't the same as they used to be.
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I agree with the tire thing. Some of the best racing this year has been on the worn out tracks that cause a lot of wear... Auto Club, Kentucky, Atanta..
 
Shobud1 said:
Would you be more of a loyal fan if they did let the folks know about what's going on instead of having to guess?
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As long as they show up on race day I couldn't care less... Yes, it'd be interesting but knowing it would not make me a bigger fan just as much as not knowing wouldn't make me less of a fan.
 
Honestly, the only thing I'd change about NASCAR Top Three Tier series is that they should replace some of the 1.5 miles tracks with short tracks, because the racing I saw last weekend at M-Ville with the Trucks and Cups was awesome!

However, what I think needs a bigger change is the local short track scene. We're losing our local short tracks to bad management, low attendants and low car count in a given class. NASCAR or someone need to step up and help out the local short track. Maybe they can band together, start their own organization that promotes local short track racing. Owners, teams, drivers can talk to one another on friendly terms and figure out what works and what doesn't work and they can learn from each other on how to put together an awesome show weekend after weekend during the racing season.
 
Do you think there is cheating going on with J. Johnson/Hendrick?
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I don't know. I figure they are pressing what little gray area is left. And I trust that NASCAR looks into things that might be pressing the limits. But Johnson is a good driver and Hendricks is a first class racing team so that alone gives them a better chance than others.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Honestly, the only thing I'd change about NASCAR Top Three Tier series is that they should replace some of the 1.5 miles tracks with short tracks, because the racing I saw last weekend at M-Ville with the Trucks and Cups was awesome!
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Agreed! I could definitely live without the extra 1.5's and getting some more short tracks in there. That would mean introducing a new track to the schedule, or more. They already go to all their short tracks twice.
 
Well, I agree with most of what you all say but, I do think if Nascar keeps Mike Helton, Brian France, and a few others running the show, soon they will have to put dummies in the seats to make tv viewers believe they have a crowd. Back when Earnhardt sr was racing, the crowds were sellouts. then in 2000 when Helton was elected Pres of Nascar, the first thing he said was ( I'm not here to start making changes, nascar is going great just the way it is) eoq.........then in 2001 he came up with the cot and things started to fall apart. The only changes that needed to be made was Soft walls, Helmets, ways to make the drivers and fans safer but, he made 22 new rules in his first 2 years of management..........IMO pretty soon Nascar will only draw flies setting in the seats eating crumbs from fans that has left the sport.......
 
Why would NASCAR change anything? Haven't we learned by now that NASCAR solicits all kinds of fan feedback, then then ignore 99% of it and do whatever they want?
 
I'd like to see guys have more leeway in preparing their cars , but still have closer racing (without the cars all strung out ) ; I'd like to see more short tracks but without giving up any of the great tracks that we are already racing on . I'd like to see a few more cautions when the field gets really strung out , but not those phoney debris cautions , real cautions , with stuff on the track that we can see . I'd like to see side by side restarts among the leaders , but with the lap down cars able to get their laps back by racing the leaders hard . I'd like to see Ernie Elliott building engines for the back half of the field (and Nascar not checking them) .Heck , if they are going to 'run what you brung ' I'd like to see Junior Johnson , Bill Elliott , Smokey Unick ,and a whole bunch of others back on the track.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I do think itd be better if they just put a cap on how much they can spend on a car. And then just do what you will.
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Wont work .............. Component suppliers would just start giving away parts to the chosen teams or mess with the paperwork to stick with the rules. Whats a million buy these days, maybe a tenth of a second on a good day ? Racing is evolving and the "good old days" are gone. When they start putting mufflers on cup cars I will be pissed though :wacko:
 
They could always put limits on the amount of tires per weekend ......................... Wait !!! they already do that and it hasnt done much to stop the "big boys" from dominating the sport
 
Shobud1 said:
Well, I agree with most of what you all say but, I do think if Nascar keeps Mike Helton, Brian France, and a few others running the show, soon they will have to put dummies in the seats to make tv viewers believe they have a crowd. Back when Earnhardt sr was racing, the crowds were sellouts. then in 2000 when Helton was elected Pres of Nascar, the first thing he said was ( I'm not here to start making changes, nascar is going great just the way it is) eoq.........then in 2001 he came up with the cot and things started to fall apart. The only changes that needed to be made was Soft walls, Helmets, ways to make the drivers and fans safer but, he made 22 new rules in his first 2 years of management..........IMO pretty soon Nascar will only draw flies setting in the seats eating crumbs from fans that has left the sport.......
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Lots of the cars already have dummies in the seat ----------------- 29-2-16-etc. etc.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Honestly, the only thing I'd change about NASCAR Top Three Tier series is that they should replace some of the 1.5 miles tracks with short tracks, because the racing I saw last weekend at M-Ville with the Trucks and Cups was awesome!

However, what I think needs a bigger change is the local short track scene. We're losing our local short tracks to bad management, low attendants and low car count in a given class. NASCAR or someone need to step up and help out the local short track. Maybe they can band together, start their own organization that promotes local short track racing. Owners, teams, drivers can talk to one another on friendly terms and figure out what works and what doesn't work and they can learn from each other on how to put together an awesome show weekend after weekend during the racing season.
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Humpy Wheeler announced a few weeks ago he's creating some sort of short track alliance. I don't know what exactly it entails though.
 
Kyle18fan said:
They could always put limits on the amount of tires per weekend ......................... Wait !!! they already do that and it hasnt done much to stop the "big boys" from dominating the sport
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The only real tire limits are in the Truck and Nationwide series. Cup teams get 11 sets of tires for the race alone this weekend.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Humpy Wheeler announced a few weeks ago he's creating some sort of short track alliance. I don't know what exactly it entails though.
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Well I hope it goes somewhere, because we need to grow the local short track scene, not let it whiter away and die.
 
Shobud1 said:
Well, I agree with most of what you all say but, I do think if Nascar keeps Mike Helton, Brian France, and a few others running the show, soon they will have to put dummies in the seats to make tv viewers believe they have a crowd. Back when Earnhardt sr was racing, the crowds were sellouts. then in 2000 when Helton was elected Pres of Nascar, the first thing he said was ( I'm not here to start making changes, nascar is going great just the way it is) eoq.........then in 2001 he came up with the cot and things started to fall apart. The only changes that needed to be made was Soft walls, Helmets, ways to make the drivers and fans safer but, he made 22 new rules in his first 2 years of management..........IMO pretty soon Nascar will only draw flies setting in the seats eating crumbs from fans that has left the sport.......
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I don't think it has as much to do with Earnhardt or Helton or the COT as it does with the fact that NASCAR had a popularity boom in the 90's and early 00's, and now they've come back down to earth a bit. It's almost a carbon copy of what happened in the NHL a few years earlier. Much like NASCAR, hockey had been mainly a regional sport, with the core of its fan base in Canada and the Northeastern U.S. But around the mid to late 80's, it started to draw national attention, likely due to superstars such as Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, etc. And, like NASCAR did, the NHL decided to "branch out". Teams in traditional hockey towns like Winnipeg, Quebec, and Minneapolis were disappearing while teams were cropping up in non-traditional hockey towns like Phoenix, Atlanta, and Miami. And these new fans were excited. For a little while. Hockey eventually came down from its "bubble", and I think that's what you're seeing in NASCAR now.
 
ToyYoda said:
I don't think it has as much to do with Earnhardt or Helton or the COT as it does with the fact that NASCAR had a popularity boom in the 90's and early 00's, and now they've come back down to earth a bit. It's almost a carbon copy of what happened in the NHL a few years earlier. Much like NASCAR, hockey had been mainly a regional sport, with the core of its fan base in Canada and the Northeastern U.S. But around the mid to late 80's, it started to draw national attention, likely due to superstars such as Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, etc. And, like NASCAR did, the NHL decided to "branch out". Teams in traditional hockey towns like Winnipeg, Quebec, and Minneapolis were disappearing while teams were cropping up in non-traditional hockey towns like Phoenix, Atlanta, and Miami. And these new fans were excited. For a little while. Hockey eventually came down from its "bubble", and I think that's what you're seeing in NASCAR now.
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True nascar is trying to be something it is not,a sport for the masses.
 
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